Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L

Trail Boss vs Clays

Recommended Posts

Been loading Trail Boss in 44 Spec for my wife's Marlin, but it's REALLY dirty. Brass comes out looking like BP  was used and it gets REALLY dirty inside. Loading 165 grn bullets and found a recipe for Clays. Is Clays gonna be any cleaner? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have shot both and I think clays is not as dirty as trail boss.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You might want to try 700X , as I've  found it much cleaner than either TB or Clays in 45 Colt loadings with similar light weight bullets. Trail Boss does work well in the smaller case capacity C45S { cowboy} when loading light bullets and using the Hodgdon loading formula . Clays is great in shotgun loadings!

I don't use either TB or Clays in 44 Sp , 700X and Unique perform better.

 

That's just my observations :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I just happen to have some Clays in stock, so I thought I'd try that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

700x and Clays perform similarly and are nearly substitutes for each other.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Typically most powders do not burn clean when loaded at the low end of the scale. Clays does appear to burn cleaner than TB and it's cheaper.

In the winter months I have learned to keep my loading strip inside my vest, the additional heat keeps the loads more consistent in colder temps.

Edited by Assassin
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The reason Clays burns cleaner than TB (or Unique) in light loads is because it's a much faster burning powder.  Faster powders will burn cleaner in light loads, and, in fact, that is the purpose of faster powders.  Check the link below for a table for relative burn rates.  Adjacent powders in the list (like Clays and 700x) may show faster or slower than the other depending on who is testing them. So they may vary by reference chart. Just be aware, there is some variability here.

 

https://www.hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/burn-rate-color.pdf

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For a clean powder, I used Universal Clays for 45 ACP and 9mm. Haven't used it for Cowboy, but I do know that Unique is FILTHY!

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

YES, Clays with a moderate load will work great in .45 Colt for a cleaner load.

 

Good luck, GJ

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the chart Ripsaw.

I notice Trail Boss isn't on the chart.

Any idea where it would fall?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, Cold Lake Kid, SASS # 51474 said:

Thanks for the chart Ripsaw.

I notice Trail Boss isn't on the chart.

Any idea where it would fall?

#21 0n the chart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gee Peepers. I looked and looked at that, and didn't see it.

I guess I'll have to blame the bi-focals.

Thanks Pards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies. I loaded up 60 rounds with 4 grn of Clays and she will shoot them tomorrow in Tombstone. I'll see how they compere to the TB loads,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

bB

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I first started reloading with universal but was getting a lot of unburned powder so I switched to trail boss and found it cleaner and more consistent. I use 200gn rnfp and 5.0gn tb with federal Magnum primers out of 5.5" 58 Remingtons in 45 Colt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well the results were better, but still dirtier than I had hoped. I think I'll bump the load up to 4.3 and see if it gets any better.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Low pressure loads equate to blow by and dirty brass. More powder, tighter crimp, or heavier bullet will help.

If it's cool where you're shooting try keeping the loaded ammo inside your coat or close to your body for additional heat. Or, set it in a dark box in the sun.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We're in AZ for the winter and while the locals were bundled up the temps in Tombstone were in the high 50's low 60's and shouldn't have been a factor. It's got a good Lee factory crimp and I use 165 gr bullets because I used them for her 44 Spec Rugers until she found a pair of Wes Flowers tuned and short stroked Single Sixes in 32 and I've got lots of them in stock. I'll try bumping up the load. If that doesn't work I may try using 44 mag brass.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started with TB and found it to be so dirty I had to clean the rifle after every match. Went to 5.2 grns. of Clays in my 45 and now while still a bit dirty due to blow by, the difference is amazing. Now need to clean a couple times a season!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Eyesa Horg said:

I started with TB and found it to be so dirty I had to clean the rifle after every match. Went to 5.2 grns. of Clays in my 45 and now while still a bit dirty due to blow by, the difference is amazing. Now need to clean a couple times a season!

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, this is an extremely helpful chain. I started reloading a few months ago with TB at 3.5 grns with a 125 grain coated bullet from Chey-Cast for 38's. When I shoot indoors I noticed the powder blow-by and muzzle smoke was certainly higher than commercial loads. After reading Assassin's and others comments, I have a better understanding of what is happening. I shoot with Assassin whenever possible and he is a great help with many aspects of the game. I am going to keep ammo as warm as possible, as here in Colorado and Wyoming low temperatures happen from Late Nov to early April. I will lift the powder by 0.25 grains in 4 batches of loads up to 4.75 and see what happens..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

By the way, my local reloading shop recommended TB for lower end loads because it occupied more volume. That sounded like a good reason to start there. As I said earlier, the comment chain opens up man other reasons for reloading options. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bob, set you sizing die to only size the case down to the bottom of the seated bullet.  This will increase pressures and seal off the chamber with less blowby.

Also put the most crimp on the bullet that you can without bulging the case, this also increases pressures and slows blowby.

Johnny Meadows

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

We're in AZ for the winter and while the locals were bundled up the temps in Tombstone were in the high 50's low 60's and shouldn't have been a factor. It's got a good Lee factory crimp and I use 165 gr bullets because I used them for her 44 Spec Rugers until she found a pair of Wes Flowers tuned and short stroked Single Sixes in 32 and I've got lots of them in stock. I'll try bumping up the load. If that doesn't work I may try using 44 mag brass.

Why would you want to use .44 Magnum brass, unless you are having feeding problems in that Marlin?  The longer case will have more internal volume, which will require heavier loads  Since you have quantities of Clays on hand, I would increase the loads a little at a time. I usually recommend starting at the middle load of Trail Boss. Same is probably a good idea with Clays.  For certain, use as firm a roll crimp as you can without bulging the case away from the bullet.  Also, your expander plug should be .002-.003" smaller than the bullet diameter. 

 

One of the problems some CAS shooters have is trying to load too light of smokeless powders for the caliber and cartridge they are using.  Smokeless powders require 5,000-7,000 psi to burn stably.  This pressure must be obtained BEFORE the bullet starts moving out of the case.  If this doesn't happen, at best you will get blow by. At worst, you may get a squib load, a bullet stuck in the barrel, or having the bullet stick in the forcing cone while the pressure builds up as the powder takes off in progressive burning, and the possibility exists of the pressures exceeding the strength of the brass, with catastrophic destruction of the gun!  For lower sectional density (lighter) bullets, faster-burning powders are better.  But they have their lower limits as well.  Clays, Bullseye, W231/HP38 are good choices for 165 gr. .44 bullets, but even they should be loaded above the lower limits shown in the manuals. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone try that CFE pistol stuff for 45 Colt? I hear it's very, very clean shooting powder

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said:

Anyone try that CFE pistol stuff for 45 Colt? I hear it's very, very clean shooting powder

 

CFE pistol is made for higher power/plated/jacketed bullets. Probably not right for this game. 

 

Another powder, not mentioned but perhaps useful for those in search of the cleanest burn, might want to try Nitro 100 (NF).  

 

I'm finding in 38spl, with  700x at 2.8g under a 125g Missouri coated bullet does create dirty brass due to blowby but combustion is complete with no unburned powder.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L said:

We're in AZ for the winter and while the locals were bundled up the temps in Tombstone were in the high 50's low 60's and shouldn't have been a factor. It's got a good Lee factory crimp and I use 165 gr bullets because I used them for her 44 Spec Rugers until she found a pair of Wes Flowers tuned and short stroked Single Sixes in 32 and I've got lots of them in stock. I'll try bumping up the load. If that doesn't work I may try using 44 mag brass.

Maybe your crimp is too light? I was using 3.9 grains of Clays in my 44 spl for years....when I still thought light loads were beneficial. I even put them in the freezer over night and shot them to see if that would matter and it didn't. That was a 180 grain bullet. 

 

The mag cartridges are gonna' make it worse.....more case vol. 

 

Edited by Cowboy Junky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.