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Cautionary Note about Posting Loading Data


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From another forum:  "Ammo reloading recipe posts will be allowed however, IT IS THE SOLE RESPONSIBILITY OF ANY PERSON UTILIZING LOAD DATA POSTED HERE TO RESEARCH THE LOAD IN QUESTION BEFORE LOADING ANY AMMO."

 

Posting your reloading data on this forum is a great idea.  Good starting points for many powders that don't have published data for "cowboy" loads.   Come on, it's been going on here for years anyway, just by e-mail and PM.   

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You know folks, all I tried to say is be careful when you post your loading data. Check to make sure it is correct, and check for typos.

 

That's it.

 

No hidden agenda, no conspiracy.

 

In fact, I probably will be posting data myself from time to time.

 

I will just check it is correct before I hit the send button.

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Guest Captain Bill

Truly amazing. 

 

Driftwood mentions he doesn't like a policy (his privilege) then suggests that people posting loads make sure what they post is accurate and people using those loads double check them.  That's it!

 

He is subsequently accused of implying everyone is stupid.  He's raining on people's parades.  He's told if he doesn't like it he should shut up (or words to that affect).   He's mocked. The people who support his position or his right to have a different opinion are mocked.  He's accused of sermonizing.  

 

SMH.

 

 

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362
1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

That's not a very nice thing to say about my friend.

I was being lighthearted.:rolleyes:

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On 10/7/2018 at 6:49 PM, Hoss said:

As important as correct data is applying that information.

True story:

had a new CAS Shooter. Had some reloading experience. Shooting 45 Colt. His load were pretty stout. We “encouraged” him to tone them down. Still shot target rattlers. We showed him the pock marks on targets and said he really had to reduce his loads. 

Next match he tells me he had changed his load to 4.5 Bullseye, 200 grn bullet. I thought that sounded about right. 

 

KABOOM! Loads sounded hotter than ever. After 2 stages we told him he could not shoot those as they were too hot. He insured they were 4.5 Bullseye which should have been a mild load. Then he had a csse separation in rifle. We pretty much insisted he finish match with other guns/ammo. (I loaned him mine). A Pard pocketed a few rounds, when he got home pulled them down. Found 14.5 Bullseye. Shooter had his balance scale set incorrectly, the 10 poise was in the wrong place!!!! How in the world those Ubertis did not come apart is beyond me!!

 

told the Shooter what we had found his response was. “I’ll just use the rest of them for hog loads. We tried to convince him that was a bad idea. I’m betting he shot them!

 

moral of the story: if you think something ain’t right, SAY/DO SOMETHING.  

Wow! Just can’t help some folks.

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100% agree with a lot of the comments and the OP on both sides of this conversation. Please make sure if you're sharing data to include all of it just the same as you would find published data. It's not only the right thing to do but it's the safe and responsible thing to do. Proofreading is also an important factor. On the other side of it we are not sharing high velocity load data. The loads that we are sharing are normally way less than any maximum load data published. I'm pretty sure a lot of them are near or below the starting points in a lot of already published data. The main thing to remember folks is that when you're loading your rounds it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY  to ensure that you are being safe and not exceeding the specs of your firearms or cases. 

 

last thing dont forget there are power factors and max velocity rules to our game. If you havent chronographed to make sure that you're load meets the rules should you share your recipe? 

 

Ok I lied. this is the last thing. it's always drove me nuts when it comes to loading black powder loads "grits is for breakfast" "just fill it up and seat the bullet" Think about this. a 44/40 case will hold 40 grains of powder. A lot of manufacturers recommend a max load of 30 grains of powder in their guns. 

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11 minutes ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

100% agree with a lot of the comments and the OP on both sides of this conversation. Please make sure if you're sharing data to include all of it just the same as you would find published data. It's not only the right thing to do but it's the safe and responsible thing to do. Proofreading is also an important factor. On the other side of it we are not sharing high velocity load data. The loads that we are sharing are normally way less than any maximum load data published. I'm pretty sure a lot of them are near or below the starting points in a lot of already published data. The main thing to remember folks is that when you're loading your rounds it's YOUR RESPONSIBILITY  to ensure that you are being safe and not exceeding the specs of your firearms or cases. 

 

last thing dont forget there are power factors and max velocity rules to our game. If you havent chronographed to make sure that you're load meets the rules should you share your recipe? 

 

Ok I lied. this is the last thing. it's always drove me nuts when it comes to loading black powder loads "grits is for breakfast" "just fill it up and seat the bullet" Think about this. a 44/40 case will hold 40 grains of powder. A lot of manufacturers recommend a max load of 30 grains of powder in their guns. 

I don't think owning a chrono and having a place to use it is a prerequisite for loading cowboy and sharing the results, if the load is already known to be well below any published load that includes velocity rating. That might be a comforting reference. There has to be some basis for credibility, if I am going to try some load I read about on the internet. What I really care about is loads that people have actually tried and liked rather than any speculation about what to try.

 

Our reloading experience is a wealth we should be allowed to share and not overwhelmed by hand wringing..

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

 I also agree that load data should be posted We are all supposed to be responsible if anyone thinks this data is Gospel than I have some oceanfront property in Arizona I can let you buy for cheap. I do believe that Darwin was on to something.:D :ph34r:                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                         :ph34r: they are watching                                                                                                                                                                                                        

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O.K. , have been reading this thread off and on since it started with no need to chime in. Now curiosity is too great. What firearms manufacturer recommends  30 grains of Black Powder as a maximum load for 44-40 cartridges in their rifles or revolvers ???

Am now on the edge of my chair awaiting replies.

Rex :D

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5 minutes ago, Rex M Rugers #6621 said:

O.K. , have been reading this thread off and on since it started with no need to chime in. Now curiosity is too great. What firearms manufacturer recommends  30 grains of Black Powder as a maximum load for 44-40 cartridges in their rifles or revolvers ???

Am now on the edge of my chair awaiting replies.

Rex :D

Specifically when I was looking for loads for conversion cylinders in cap guns. Most Pietta cap guns recommend no more than 30 grains in a .44 cal. I just used the 44/40 case holding 40 grains of powder as an example since not many would dispute the fact of how much powder it will hold. 

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3 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

Specifically when I was looking for loads for conversion cylinders in cap guns. Most Pietta cap guns recommend no more than 30 grains in a .44 cal. I just used the 44/40 case holding 40 grains of powder as an example since not many would dispute the fact of how much powder it will hold. 

Modern 44WCF cases will not hold 40grs of BP unless heavily compressed.  30grs of FFG just touches the bullet base.

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Funny I use 34.9 gr. of Goex 3f under a .220  gr. or a 225 gr. home cast 1-22 RNFP bullet ... This in Star-Line cases and 35.2 in Winchester cases ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

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9 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Our reloading experience is a wealth we should be allowed to share and not overwhelmed by hand wringing..

Yes!

8 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

 I just used the 44/40 case holding 40 grains of powder as an example since not many would dispute the fact of how much powder it will hold. 

I can hear the cacophony of "hold my beers" echoing across the forum.

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9 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

Specifically when I was looking for loads for conversion cylinders in cap guns. Most Pietta cap guns recommend no more than 30 grains in a .44 cal. I just used the 44/40 case holding 40 grains of powder as an example since not many would dispute the fact of how much powder it will hold. 

Howdy

 

At the risk of offending everyone by responding to my own post, you are comparing apples and oranges.

 

30 grains of Black Powder in a percussion cylinder is one thing. Those are percussion cylinders, and they have probably not been made from the same type of steel as a conversion cylinder. My 45 Colt R&D cylinders for my 1858 Remingtons are made from 4150 arsenal steel. The pamphlet that came with them states that a Black Powder cartridge can be loaded with 34 grains of powder. Which is about as much as I can stuff into a 45 Colt or 44-40 solid head case anyway.

 

 

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So did a .44-40 case ever hold 40 grains of black powder or is this just a further lie perpetrated upon us by whatever indecent scoundrel that rounded .429 up to .44? To head you confusing contrarionists off at the pass...said scoundrel should be exumed, tried and hanged at dawn alongside the disgraphic and disoriented creator of the .38-40 for his errant rounding down of .401.

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36 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

So did a .44-40 case ever hold 40 grains of black powder or is this just a further lie perpetrated upon us by whatever indecent scoundrel that rounded .429 up to .44? To head you confusing contrarionists off at the pass...said scoundrel should be exumed, tried and hanged at dawn alongside the disgraphic and disoriented creator of the .38-40 for his errant rounding down of .401.

Balloon head cases would hold 40 grains of BP... But, you're unlikely to find any new ones nowadays.

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7 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Funny I use 34.9 gr. of Goex 3f under a .220  gr. or a 225 gr. home cast 1-22 RNFP bullet ... This in Star-Line cases and 35.2 in Winchester cases ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

30 grs just touches the slug using 777 as no compression is recommended.  Light compression of real powder is recommended so yes, your loads sound correct with an 1/8-3/16" compression.  40 grs would be heavily compressed and not recommended.  The old balloon head cases would hold 40 grs.

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Here is a comparison of a 44-40 Balloon Head case on the left and a 44-40 solid head case on the right. You can see how much more powder capacity the Balloon Head case had.

 

balloonhead44-40cutaway.jpg

 

 

 

 

I don't have any Balloon Head 44-40 cases but I do have a box of Remington Balloon Head 45 Colt cases.  One of these days I will load some up with Black Powder and see if I can actually fit 40 grains of FFg inside under a 250 grain bullet without over compressing the powder. With about 1/16" to 1/8" compression, a modern 45 Colt case only holds about 33.5 grains of FFg Schuetzen under a Big Lube 250 grain bullet.

 

rem-umc%20balloon%20head%20winchester%20

 

 

45%20Colt%20Components_zpsdor0dqed.jpg

 

 

 

 

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Great explanation and good camera work as well Driftwood Johnson. :)

I have about 5-6 UMC marked ballon head 44WCF cases somewhere, they are fairly rare these days!

 

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11 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

I can hear the cacophony of "hold my beers" echoing across the forum.

 

LOL man did you ever call it! 

 

Now that most everyone has had their fun can we address the fact that not once was I told to leave room to seat the bullet with just light compression of the powder. I was simply told " grits are for breakfast, fill'er up and slap a bullet in it" This thread was (as I seen it) a caution of how we share load data. I took the time to read a few manuals and talk to people that had been shooting BP cartridges for a while before even attempting to load any. Sharing load data can be a great thing but we have to remember not everyone is going to take the time to do much or any of their own homework in this day and age. When we share the data we need to make sure to give the specifics. 

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Went to a out of town club annual this last weekend and had a few shooters mention to me that they are really enjoying the info available to shooters on the wire. So it is being enjoyed and used and thats great. 

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