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Cautionary Note about Posting Loading Data


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14 minutes ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Oooh! It's time for all the negative Nellies to line up and sink this one. First, somebody complains and says it's unsafe. Second, all their buddies attest to the wisdom of the chief complainant.  Third, we make logical counterpoints  about being responsible adults and the value of the information. Fourth, it's all  ignored and we can't walk and chew bubble gum any more.

 

How about if you don't like it you just don't comment or contribute? You're really not helping with your wisdom. It's a good thing that gets people sharing ideas and keeps people active on the forum. People here have enough accountability to ask questions if they don't know something. Thanks in advance for your forward thinking lassez-faire stance going forward on this matter. 

So, shall we all clear our posts with you before posting?  :unsure:

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2 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

So, shall we all clear our posts with you before posting?  :unsure:

Oh come on this is being chipped away at and you know it. I'm just calling it out into the open. The safety culture will be the death of all things fun and exciting. Okie from Muskogee...

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1 minute ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Oh come on this is being chipped away at and you know it. I'm just calling it out into the open. The safety culture will be the death of all things fun and exciting. Okie from Muskogee...

Posting of load data is too interesting. Someone needs to step on it.

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2 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Oooh! It's time for all the negative Nellies to line up and sink this one. First, somebody complains and says it's unsafe. Second, all their buddies attest to the wisdom of the chief complainant.  Third, we make logical counterpoints  about being responsible adults and the value of the information. Fourth, it's all  ignored and we can't walk and chew bubble gum any more.

 

How about if you don't like it you just don't comment or contribute? You're really not helping with your wisdom. It's a good thing that gets people sharing ideas and keeps people active on the forum. People here have enough accountability to ask questions if they don't know something. Thanks in advance for your forward thinking lassez-faire stance going forward on this matter. 

 

Exactly how am I raining on your parade? Although I disagree with the new policy, did I say anything about having it changed?

 

This is what I said.

 

On 10/6/2018 at 6:59 PM, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Anyway, now that posting loading data is allowed, I would ask that those  who post data make sure it is correct. Proof read what you wrote before you hit the Submit Button. Make sure it is correct. And be sure you state not only the powder name and charge in grains, but also make sure you define exactly what weight bullet you are using. X.X grains of Whiz Bang under a 200 grain bullet may be perfectly safe, but the same charge of Whiz Bang under a 250 grain bullet may lead to disaster.

 

 

All I am asking for is simple caution to make sure the data posted is correct.

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4 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

Oh come on this is being chipped away at and you know it. I'm just calling it out into the open. The safety culture will be the death of all things fun and exciting. Okie from Muskogee...

 

What exactly is being chipped away and who's doing the chipping? The SASS Wire recently approved the posting of load data. How is that chipping anything away? And one SASS Wire veteran of seventeen years makes a post encouraging caution and you get your panties in a twist. What's up with that? At a match when the match director says "all SASS rules apply and watch your muzzle direction" do you voice your disapproval of safety culture? I bet you don't. 

 

Since load data on The Wire is a very new thing Mister Johnson encouraged vigilance when posting data. That's all. Just as at matches we benefit from the consistent reminder to watch our muzzle direction there is no downside to a reminder here on The Wire to be sure about the load data you post. Now get them panties untied.

 

 

 

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All I am asking for is simple caution to make sure the data posted is correct.

Driftwood - you are absolutely correct and IF.... the replies for a 'favorite caliber' load for replies were identified to what tested published loading table the favorite load came from ( number of grs between min & max for a specific brand of powder) bullet weight specific ) ... there would be no issue that the posted data wasn't correct 

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On 10/6/2018 at 6:59 PM, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

Howdy All

 

First off, I am going to say at the start that I disagree with the SASS Wire's new policy of allowing loading data to be posted. I have always felt that not allowing data to be posted was a good idea. The reason is it only takes one typo to post erroneous data, with potentially disastrous results. Yes, I know that other forums allow it, but I think the old policy of not allowing data to be posted was a good one, for that simple reason. And yes, I understand that it is the reader's responsibility to check posted data against published data to be sure it is accurate.

 

Anyway, now that posting loading data is allowed, I would ask that those  who post data make sure it is correct. Proof read what you wrote before you hit the Submit Button. Make sure it is correct. And be sure you state not only the powder name and charge in grains, but also make sure you define exactly what weight bullet you are using. X.X grains of Whiz Bang under a 200 grain bullet may be perfectly safe, but the same charge of Whiz Bang under a 250 grain bullet may lead to disaster.

 

To those who are reading these postings, be sure you double check the information against published data to make sure it is safe. I have already seen a couple of loads that I know were unsafe, as well as at least one post with no reference to bullet weight, although the poster claimed it was good for three different calibers.

 

Caveat Lector.

This is the totality of what you said. You are trying to slowly build momentum behind your idea that this is wrong and because you disagree with it it needs to be removed.

On 10/8/2018 at 11:05 AM, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

Cast Boolits is primarily a reloaders forum.

 

Maybe the posters at Castboolits are more experienced at reloading than the Newbies in SASS?

This is the point where you tacitly say that the newbies in SASS are somehow less competent than newbies in all other shooting sports. The .38 special is where most folks are getting into the sport. What is so difficult about reloading that?  It was my introduction to reloading and it was a pleasant and gentle experience. It's not like we're loading .300 Win Mag for ultra high performance.

8 hours ago, Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 said:

 

Exactly how am I raining on your parade? Although I disagree with the new policy, did I say anything about having it changed?

 

This is what I said.

 

 

 

All I am asking for is simple caution to make sure the data posted is correct.

You're raining on my and everyone else's parade by drumming up support for the fear that the posting of reloading data is going to cause a problem. People like this next fellow are going to weight your opinion heavily (exactly as you intended them to) and petition to have it changed. Then we will all be back to the tiresome method of PM'ing every new person a load one by one. Sounds like "Common Sense"  gun control...No thanks!

6 hours ago, Lead Friend, SASS #53635 said:

 

What exactly is being chipped away and who's doing the chipping? The SASS Wire recently approved the posting of load data. How is that chipping anything away? And one SASS Wire veteran of seventeen years makes a post encouraging caution and you get your panties in a twist. What's up with that? At a match when the match director says "all SASS rules apply and watch your muzzle direction" do you voice your disapproval of safety culture? I bet you don't. 

 

Since load data on The Wire is a very new thing Mister Johnson encouraged vigilance when posting data. That's all. Just as at matches we benefit from the consistent reminder to watch our muzzle direction there is no downside to a reminder here on The Wire to be sure about the load data you post. Now get them panties untied.

 

 

 

First off, Driftwood and all others who join his tale of woe party are doing the chipping away at the ability to post load data on the SASS Wire. 

 

YES, the SASS Wire recently approved the posting of load data. This was a decision by the administration of this forum. THE MODERATORS SHOULD BE NIPPING THIS AND ANY OTHER CRITICISM OF THE ADMINISTRATION'S DECISION TO ALLOW THIS IN THE BUD.

 

Personally I don't wear panties as I find they get in the way of my active social life and it's one more thing to pack up in the morning. I also think we should be able to move with cocked guns on the stage while throwing knives and yelling yeehaw while roping steers, but that's not the issue at hand.

 

The safety culture comment is not directed at SASS and its rules. It is directed at the fear mongering people who already have us wearing safety vests and hard hats in the middle of an open field with warning labels on every last thing. You keep on chipping away at good things and calling them dangerous...and that's right where you'll end us up on this forum. 

 

TLDR- Too Long Didn't Read(Summary of my opinion)

Driftwood wants the load data gone and is working to affect that.

Lead Friend is not really sure what's going on, supports Driftwood based on his time in the discipline, and generally likes the SASS rules and feeling safe. Oh and he thinks I wear panties or is trying to use that concept to shout me down.

Carolina Gunslinger wants everyone to see that there is a movement starting to gain momentum which is openly criticizing the SASS Wire policy of allowing load data to be posted, that no action is being taken to suppress this criticism of Sass Wire policy by the moderators present, and if/when the policy is reversed due to this subversion you'll at least know who to "thank" for their "wisdom".

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Guest Texas jack Black SASS#9362

After a month in the sensitivity corner, I now suggest we all just give each other a big hug sit by the fire and toast marshmallows .:)

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Holy smokes Carolina Gunslinger, conspiracy theory much? You are supposing an awful lot of motivation where none has been shown and you are fearful of a movement that doesn’t exist. And I was wrong about the panties, this is clearly a case of knickers in a twist because they are larger and generally create more irritation.

 

 

 

 

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8 hours ago, Lead Friend, SASS #53635 said:

 

What exactly is being chipped away and who's doing the chipping? The SASS Wire recently approved the posting of load data. How is that chipping anything away? And one SASS Wire veteran of seventeen years makes a post encouraging caution and you get your panties in a twist. What's up with that? At a match when the match director says "all SASS rules apply and watch your muzzle direction" do you voice your disapproval of safety culture? I bet you don't. 

 

Since load data on The Wire is a very new thing Mister Johnson encouraged vigilance when posting data. That's all. Just as at matches we benefit from the consistent reminder to watch our muzzle direction there is no downside to a reminder here on The Wire to be sure about the load data you post. Now get them panties untied.

 

 

 

To be fair, there is quite a bit of hand wringing in these threads.

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I’m bettin 8 pages.

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Just now, Buckshot Dobbs said:

it'll get locked and deleted way before then.

We can only hope.

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1 hour ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

After a month in the sensitivity corner, I now suggest we all just give each other a big hug sit by the fire and toast marshmallows .:)

Perhaps some soft guitar music, Gordon Lightfoot or maybe Jim Croce 

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2 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Perhaps some soft guitar music, Gordon Lightfoot or maybe Jim Croce 

"The wind in the wires made a tattle tale sound..." 

"Operator, well let's forget about this call,

There's no one there I really wanted to talk to." 

LOL!

 

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27 minutes ago, Lead Friend, SASS #53635 said:

And to be fair there is no conspiracy in them.

To be fair you wouldn't have the ability to percieve a change in wind direction much less a conspiracy. Conspiracy implies subtlety. Let's call this a foul plot.:ph34r:

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All I can say is this is the first time I have ever been accused of being part of a conspiracy.

 

Or a foul plot.

 

 

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Just now, Carolina Gunslinger said:

To be fair you wouldn't have the ability to percieve a change in wind direction much less a conspiracy. Conspiracy implies subtlety. Let's call this a foul plot.:ph34r:

 

What’s fair about it? Now you have crossed over into blowing smoke because, having never met me or interacted with me before, you have no idea about my powers of perception. Once again making attributions with nothing to support them. I detect a theme.

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20 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Perhaps some soft guitar music, Gordon Lightfoot or maybe Jim Croce 

Maybe a Campfire and Kum ba yah ???

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Ladies and Gentlemen of the Wire
 
Just want to address a couple of items. We can appreciate the concern of potential "bad data" being passed on. I can assure you that the SASS Administration has done their research on the subject. The allowance of the posting of load data will continue. As to the closing or locking of this thread we really would rather not. Spirited debate and discussion are wonderful things and we don't wish to censor that. But please lets not allow it to become personal. Take a breath, enjoy your morning. 
 
Sam C. 

 

 

 

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There is a lot of safe tested load data out there for the cartridges most used in this game, so let's stick with it ....

Now put on your BIG BOY pants and play Cowboy ..... All can have a place to have fun ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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30 minutes ago, Lead Friend, SASS #53635 said:

 

What’s fair about it? Now you have crossed over into blowing smoke because, having never met me or interacted with me before, you have no idea about my powers of perception. Once again making attributions with nothing to support them. I detect a theme.

This is where I begin to twirl my drinking cup at you before suggesting we have a spelling contest...

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28 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

There is a lot of safe tested load data out there for the cartridges most used in this game, so let's stick with it ....

Now put on your BIG BOY pants and play Cowboy ..... All can have a place to have fun ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

Actually, loads for 38 set to near 357 Magnum COL is strictly informal. I believe published loads presume seating to a crimp groove. I believe there is a need for further testimony about what "works".

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11 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Actually, loads for 38 set to near 357 Magnum COL is strictly informal. I believe published loads presume seating to a crimp groove. I believe there is a need for further testimony about what "works".

Exactly! If you don't wish to participate in discussions or exchanges of information then don't. I for one believe they know what they are doing at the SASS office and trust when policy changes are made. Please let those of us that do want to participate do so and let it be. 

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2 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

After a month in the sensitivity corner, I now suggest we all just give each other a big hug sit by the fire and toast marshmallows .:)

 

 

20180418_155301.jpg

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8 hours ago, Carolina Gunslinger said:

This is the point where you tacitly say that the newbies in SASS are somehow less competent than newbies in all other shooting sports. The .38 special is where most folks are getting into the sport. What is so difficult about reloading that?  It was my introduction to reloading and it was a pleasant and gentle experience. It's not like we're loading .300 Win Mag for ultra high performance.

 

I suppose there's no need for traffic lights & stop signs either. After all we all know enough to stop at an intersection before proceeding across with our 3000# cars which manage to kill in the neighborhood of 30,000 persons each year. Everyone is aware of this & of course will drive appropriately. IMHO of course ........

 

Edit: Ask a TO who has had a cylinder explode 3 ft from his head how he feels about reloading safety admonishments ....

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12 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

 

I suppose there's no need for traffic lights & stop signs either. After all we all know enough to stop at an intersection before proceeding across with our 3000# cars which manage to kill in the neighborhood of 30,000 persons each year. Everyone is aware of this & of course will drive appropriately. IMHO of course ........

Which is why we post load data...it's a road map for the newbies that would otherwise kill themselves because they're barely allowed to walk and talk much less ask permission to chew bubble gum. 

 

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1 hour ago, Yusta B. said:

 

I suppose there's no need for traffic lights & stop signs either. After all we all know enough to stop at an intersection before proceeding across with our 3000# cars which manage to kill in the neighborhood of 30,000 persons each year. Everyone is aware of this & of course will drive appropriately. IMHO of course ........

 

Edit: Ask a TO who has had a cylinder explode 3 ft from his head how he feels about reloading safety admonishments ....

I had two top straps go airborne from Colt clones in the last 17 years while TO'ing. Both were a result of double charging and one was a double charge double bullet (perfect storm). Neither were the cause of bad info just bad reloading practices. 

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4 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

I had two top straps go airborne from Colt clones in the last 17 years while TO'ing. Both were a result of double charging and one was a double charge double bullet (perfect storm). Neither were the cause of bad info just bad reloading practices. 

Exactly - hence reminders to attention to detail, be it data or procedures.

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