Most reliable CAS rifle?

[Griff]

5 hours ago, Juiceharp Jen said:

 

I'm absolutely amazed that there are no commercial cowboy loads in .38 special that have the longer OAL that is needed for the most popular rifle in CAS.  I spy a commercial opportunity.

Yep, absolutely... "how to make a small fortune supplying to cowboy action shooters:  start with a large one."

[J.D. Daily]

5 hours ago, Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator said:

It might be easier if you asked for unreliable rifles. Almost any gun needs the proper ammunition. Identical rifles may not feed the same ammo. 

 

And, you can have problems with any gun that is not properly tuned. 

 

The only cowboy rifle I have ever seen that failed for different shooters was a Colt Lightning. They, more than others, are finicky. 

My 1st rifle is a Beretta Goldrush (Uberti Lightning) in 45LC.  I have since acquired a 38/357 Uberti 73 & 1 OMV to go with the one I had.  I agree the lightning is more prone to malfunctions.  The safe fire control system in the Uberti is the source of the hiccups.   The design of the fire control system allows dropping the hammer when bolt isn't in battery; however, the firing pin doesn't strike the primer.  Another design feature of the trigger & sear is the trigger must reset  before the sear will engage.  Therefore you have to jack out the unfired round or while holding the trigger back pull the hammer to cocked position then release the trigger.  To minimize the out off battery problem you have to run it hard.  I understand the Pedersoli lightnings have a different fire control system.

[Juiceharp Jen]

Well, it turns out that the Ultramax .357 cowboy ammo may be just what I am looking for.

 

According to Brandon Baller at Buffalo Arms, "The 125 grn is 1.571" long and the 158 grn is 1.562" long.    I only measured 2 from each box."

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

I had a 92 I liked but went to the 94 marlin.

I wanted to sell the 92 but when the marlin jammed the 92 saved the day.

They both liked the same ammo, and that is the key for my money.

Once you have a gun you LIKE, don't be too eager to let others try it.

The $300 marlin 94s are all gone.

Best

CR

 

[San Joaquin Shootist]

I would suggest you use that second rifle money to buy a Dillon reloading setup. It is hard to play this game buying ammo.

[Cowboy Junky]

16 hours ago, San Joaquin Shootist said:

I would suggest you use that second rifle money to buy a Dillon reloading setup. It is hard to play this game buying ammo.

+1 then you can make the OAL you want for ANY rifle......then they are all reliable. 

[Juiceharp Jen]

Let me just clarify that there is zero chance of me doing any reloading for as long as I am still working.  I'm in that fortunate situation where I have way more money than time, and it just doesn't make sense for me to spend time reloading, as opposed to generating more billable hours or enjoying my scarce time off.    I have too little free time to spend any of it reloading, and I would walk away from CAS before I spend time reloading.  So to all these suggestions, including all of the PMs about reloading, I say thanks, but no thanks.

[Sgt. Saywut]

Boy, are the ammo dealers going to love you!  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

22 minutes ago, Juiceharp Jen said:

Let me just clarify that there is zero chance of me doing any reloading for as long as I am still working.  I'm in that fortunate situation where I have way more money than time, and it just doesn't make sense for me to spend time reloading, as opposed to generating more billable hours or enjoying my scarce time off.    I have too little free time to spend any of it reloading, and I would walk away from CAS before I spend time reloading.  So to all these suggestions, including all of the PMs about reloading, I say thanks, but no thanks.

Sorry to hear-I can reload 450-500 rnds of ammo in 1 hr, and my guns love the ammo I make for my wife and I.

That 1-2 hrs at the loading bench, is worth not having to worry about how the 'toys' will run.

Good luck-

OLG

[Bart Solo]

On 11/7/2017 at 12:27 AM, Hooligan Howes said:

I personally would get a back up identical to my main rifle. This way you can switch back and forth between the two. With little or no adjustment time.

I didn't follow this advice so I now have 4 rifles none of them identical.   Since I divide my time in two different parts of the country, I have two main match rifles, both 1873 clones in 38, that are slightly different. One is a Codymatic and the other is a 5th generation from Cowboys and Indian. That means I have to adjust back and forth, which usually takes a stage or two.  I really wish I had two identical rifles.   The sad thing is I like both of my main match rifles and don't want to get rid of either.   

 

If I had it to do over again I would have two identical sets of main match guns.  

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Our family has several 73s and Marlin 94s in 357.  We shoot 38 spl in all of them with an OAL of 1.43 to 1.45 and have never had an issue, with 3 shooters using them over a time period that spans about 15 years or so. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

On 11/7/2017 at 12:27 AM, Hooligan Howes said:

I personally would get a back up identical to my main rifle. This way you can switch back and forth between the two. With little or no adjustment time.

There ya go!! + 100000000

[Ramblin Gambler]

When I first started shooting I had a rifle in 357 and I had to borrow ammo from other shooters because I didn't know I needed lead.  I got a quick lesson in how important overall length is.  Maybe I didn't learn much, but I did learn that i do not want a rifle in either 38/357 or 44 spec/44 mag.  As much as I like those calibers, it seemed like buying trouble I didn't have time for. 

 

As for the most reliable rifle, that's a ginger or mary ann question.  There are no wrong answers unless someone says mrs howell. 

[CodyMaverick]

14 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

When I first started shooting I had a rifle in 357 and I had to borrow ammo from other shooters because I didn't know I needed lead.  I got a quick lesson in how important overall length is.  Maybe I didn't learn much, but I did learn that i do not want a rifle in either 38/357 or 44 spec/44 mag.  As much as I like those calibers, it seemed like buying trouble I didn't have time for. 

 

As for the most reliable rifle, that's a ginger or mary ann question.  There are no wrong answers unless someone says mrs howell. 

 

Here's one vote for Mrs Howell,  I'd much prefer a rich woman over a pretty girl.

[Red Eye Jim]

8 minutes ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

Here's one vote for Mrs Howell,  I'd much prefer a rich woman over a pretty girl.

 

I got lucky and got both myself...

 

However, if the OP doesn't want to spend her time reloading we shouldn't beat her up over it. 

 

To answer her question, I would tell her that the Henry Big Boy in .38/.357 runs both the Remington UMC 158 LRN and my hand loads which are 105 Grain TFP with a 1.45" OAL with ease.

 

I know not everyone is big on the Big Boy, but I think as a first gun and as my reliable backup (sometime next year, I expect I'll pick up a '73 or '92 as soon as I decide if I want to shoot B-W or not) it is very hard not to like.

[Perro Del Diablo]

if you do decide on purchase of another rifle an uberti 66 could be an option virtually identical to a 73 but will be in 38 instead of 357

[Three Foot Johnson]

20 minutes ago, Country Wildman said:

if you do decide on purchase of another rifle an uberti 66 could be an option virtually identical to a 73 but will be in 38 instead of 357

I've seen more than one 1866 .38 Special with a .357 chamber. Maybe they just run short of .38 barrels and substitute a '73 .357 barrel sometimes... I dunno.

[J-BAR #18287]

Remember Larsen E. Pettifogger's article, "Winchester Toggle Link 101", the one that showed why short cartridges sometimes don't cycle in a '73?

 

I have re-profiled the slope on the front of several '73 carriers so that .38 Specials would work reliably.  I don't know if that has already been done on Juiceharp Jen's rifle, but if not I think it is a fix that should be explored.

 

Jen;  if you want to know what I am talking about I will be glad to send you a copy of Pettifogger's article.  It's easy reading and will help you understand why cartridge overall length can sometimes be a problem.   Then when your rifle is examined by whomever you chose things will make more sense.  Send me you regular email address by personal message and I will send you a copy.  I promise not to abuse your email.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

JEN,

even some the most perfect and reliable rifles can and do encounter a problem just when you least expect.

 

Example:  I really like my Widdermatic in .32 H&R.    I have shot over 3000 rounds thru it without a mechanical glitch.   But, sometimes the operator tries to run it with only working the lever partially down.   This will cause a minor hiccup.

 

Then last year, of all things, I worked my lever down and it jammed up something fiercely.   It was a broken stock.   Yep, nothing inside the gun had caused the problem but rather when I opened the lever and the bolt came back to cock the hammer, the HAMMER STRUT moving inside the stock managed to wedge between 2 pieces of wood......the piece that had broken.   It locked it up solid.

 

Stuff happens.

As mentioned, numerous pards can perfect your rifle(s) for near flawless functioning.   But, stuff does happen.   And in our game, it usually happens when it hurts the most.

 

..........Widder

 

[Ramblin Gambler]

18 hours ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

Here's one vote for Mrs Howell,  I'd much prefer a rich woman over a pretty girl.

 

There's always one.  In this context, that would mean instead of recommending a marlin, a 73, or a 92 ... you recommend an evans (the one that holds 34 rounds in the buttstock and has a screw type feed so it needs to be cycled through all 34 positions to empty it) or a winchester 94 trapper (that might not even hold 10 rounds). 

 

[Bart Solo]

23 hours ago, Red Eye Jim said:

I know not everyone is big on the Big Boy

 

Most of the opposition to the Big Boy comes from folks like me who have never owned one.  I have been seeing more and more Big Boys on the line.   Fewer and fewer of them are having problems.   I am not sure the manufacturer hasn't made some improvements to them.   Any Big Boy owners want to opine?

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Saw one new-production brass Big Boy, .45 Colt, on the line for a few stages for a new shooter on Sunday at our local match.  Third stage, if I remember right, after having requiring a double-clutch in the lever motion on about every third round fired so far in match, it jammed up so tight with a mis-fed round (rim up high and nose buried down in the enclosed action) that it took careful disassembly to get to where we could remove the cartridge.

 

Nope, I see no improvement yet.  Not a gun that is "easy to like" for me.

 

Good luck, GJ 

[Ramblin Gambler]

It's superficial, but I don't like the henrys because they're ugly.  I don't like the gold (or silver) color, and I do like wood stocks.  I haven't really looked hard at their newer models that have wooden foreends.  I gotta admit that I DO like how the henry loads.  With something like a big boy, do you still have to do the henry hand jive to avoid the follower? 

[Red Eye Jim]

8 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

It's superficial, but I don't like the henrys because they're ugly.  I don't like the gold (or silver) color, and I do like wood stocks.  I haven't really looked hard at their newer models that have wooden foreends.  I gotta admit that I DO like how the henry loads.  With something like a big boy, do you still have to do the henry hand jive to avoid the follower? 

Not sure what you mean by henry hand jive.

 

[Three Foot Johnson]

1 minute ago, Red Eye Jim said:

Not sure what you mean by henry hand jive.

 

Moving your hand from the behind the follower to ahead of it as the mag tube empties on an 1860. The Big Boy has no such follower tab sticking out.

[CodyMaverick]

7 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

There's always one.  In this context, that would mean instead of recommending a marlin, a 73, or a 92 ... you recommend an evans (the one that holds 34 rounds in the buttstock and has a screw type feed so it needs to be cycled through all 34 positions to empty it) or a winchester 94 trapper (that might not even hold 10 rounds). 

 

 

Wow! you are way over interpreting my comment. 

 

I had already voiced my opinion that the '73 would potentially be the most reliable back on page 1.

 

Your recent post included your opinion that Mrs Howell would be the wrong answer to the age old question of Ginger or Mary Ann?  I have found that my position on that question has shifted from a resounding Mary Ann!!! to Mrs Howell.  I believe the cause may be due to my own aging maturation.   Granted, Mrs Howell was not one of the choices in the original question but then I've always wanted what I can't have, it's just how I roll.

[CodyMaverick]

On 11/8/2017 at 10:20 AM, Juiceharp Jen said:

Let me just clarify that there is zero chance of me doing any reloading for as long as I am still working.  I'm in that fortunate situation where I have way more money than time, and it just doesn't make sense for me to spend time reloading, as opposed to generating more billable hours or enjoying my scarce time off.    I have too little free time to spend any of it reloading, and I would walk away from CAS before I spend time reloading.  So to all these suggestions, including all of the PMs about reloading, I say thanks, but no thanks.

 

I understand your reasons for not getting in to reloading, at least for now.  It's not like you just go buy a press and some components and start churning out quality ammo.  While most of us that load can easily sit down and run out 300+ rounds in an hour.  It took a lot of investment in time, money, and motivation to get to that point.

 

Georgia Arms was the place I was thinking of earlier when I mistakenly mentioned Buffalo Arms.  Their ammo is decent enough and reasonably priced compared to actual commercial brand name ammo.

 

No matter where you get your ammunition you need to invest the time to check it for yourself.  At least check the stuff you intend to shoot in a match.  That means you'll need cartridge gauges for your caliber and a gauge for your shotgun shells as well.  You'll need to check the length, the rim, the primer seating, and inspect for splits or other defects.  Set aside any that aren't perfect for potential practice rounds.  The perfect ones, I mark with a Sharpie so I'll know later that I've checked them.

 

Since I haven't seen an update, I assume the jury is still out on your rifle troubles.  I am betting the problem will be with the machining work done on the carrier and not with your ammo.

 

 

[Ramblin Gambler]

32 minutes ago, CodyMaverick said:

 

Wow! you are way over interpreting my comment. 

 

I had already voiced my opinion that the '73 would potentially be the most reliable back on page 1.

 

Your recent post included your opinion that Mrs Howell would be the wrong answer to the age old question of Ginger or Mary Ann?  I have found that my position on that question has shifted from a resounding Mary Ann!!! to Mrs Howell.  I believe the cause may be due to my own aging maturation.   Granted, Mrs Howell was not one of the choices in the original question but then I've always wanted what I can't have, it's just how I roll.

 

Stop overthinking the good natured ribbing. 

 

[Ramblin Gambler]

1 hour ago, J Bar Binks, #47015 said:

Moving your hand from the behind the follower to ahead of it as the mag tube empties on an 1860. The Big Boy has no such follower tab sticking out.

 

That's good to hear.  I was looking at the henry website and the big boy is the only gun they advertise as being SASS legal.  At least, the only one with a wooden fore-end.  Any idea if that's true?  While I think they're ugly, I believe my wife likes the shiny receivers and she might want one.  I know she will like the loading method as her 92 tears her fingernails up.  I had her try a henry once and she said she wasn't going to use any gun that required a glove to keep from getting burnt. 

[CodyMaverick]

11 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

Stop overthinking the good natured ribbing. 

 

 

LOL!  You're right!  It's hard to hear the sarcasm on here sometimes.

[Three Foot Johnson]

The Big Boy is SASS legal, but it's heavy, especially in .357, and generally has a reputation for speed and reliability that is less than other styles of rifles used in this game.

[40Chev]

28 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

 

That's good to hear.  I was looking at the henry website and the big boy is the only gun they advertise as being SASS legal.  At least, the only one with a wooden fore-end.  Any idea if that's true?  While I think they're ugly, I believe my wife likes the shiny receivers and she might want one.  I know she will like the loading method as her 92 tears her fingernails up.  I had her try a henry once and she said she wasn't going to use any gun that required a glove to keep from getting burnt. 

Actually, think they're putting out a 327 Federal which also runs the 32 H&R magnums now.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

14 minutes ago, 40Chev said:

Actually, think they're putting out a 327 Federal which also runs the 32 H&R magnums now.

 

You are correct CHEV.   But, you won't have to worry about your fingernails getting broken but rather your back.    That .32 model is HEAVY.

 

..........Widder

 

[San Joaquin Shootist]

On 11/8/2017 at 7:20 AM, Juiceharp Jen said:

Let me just clarify that there is zero chance of me doing any reloading for as long as I am still working.  I'm in that fortunate situation where I have way more money than time, and it just doesn't make sense for me to spend time reloading, as opposed to generating more billable hours or enjoying my scarce time off.    I have too little free time to spend any of it reloading, and I would walk away from CAS before I spend time reloading.  So to all these suggestions, including all of the PMs about reloading, I say thanks, but no thanks.

 

JJ then you need a very good friend to reload for you:)

 

Hope all your trails are happy,

SJS

[Straight Stock]

Hard question to answer. I believe examples of rifles from '66's to 94's can all be worked to be made equally reliable. The trick is researching (and that isn't always easy) each rifle's Achilles's heel and applying the appropriate fixes. For instance, the notorious '66 weak loading gate tab and corresponding JB weld fix. The gamut of issues a Rossi '92 can have, and all corresponding fixes documented by Steve's Gunz AKA "Rossi Specialist". I'm personally learning about Marlin 1894 issues at the moment; in a personal hell with that right now. So each design has issues that are exposed by the SASS style of shooting and hard use.

 

This was my first year of SASS action, and I started with a '66 main match rifle. When my loading gate tab broke at a match, I realized I needed a backup gun. I debated with myself about getting an identical rifle, but ended up with a Rossi '92. One reason was cost. Another was I just liked how the action felt, and the '92 design is robust should I want to run hot loads for some reason. I liked having the versatility of dissimilar rifles, and I like broadening my shooting skills by shooting different rifle designs.

 

When my '66 screws are all tight and with my loading gate JB welded, its a very reliable rifle. My Rossi '92 carbine is very reliable since I went through all the internals and polished specific parts. I alternate between the two depending on mood.