Cap and Ball guns for

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I have been around for a good few years now .

In my home areas ,

No one shoots Cap and Ball guns .

I am going to try shooting some cap guns this year.

I bought me some Remington's because I am  told they have less issues to start with .

I bought a loading press for the cylinders .

And I bought a extra set of cylinders .

My thought is to load four cylinders at home.

(Cap at the loading table .)

Then sit at the unloading table to help out doing something , And load the cylinders again .

This way I would only need to reload the two cylinders two times to get threw a whole game.

I am looking for info from you who shoot cap guns .

How have you worked out the day shooting your cap guns at a Cowboy shoot ?

Thank you.

Rooster .

PS. I have shot Cap guns on and off for many years .

So Im Not inexperienced completely lol.

[Dorado]

I asked a similar question a while back. From what I understand most of the cap shooters do pretty much what you're describing.

 

I'm hoping I get to join the holy black brigade soon. I'm thinking of getting rid of one of my modern pistols and getting a pair of Remington's.

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

I recently started to shoot Cap and Ball for SASS and find it very enjoyable and alot of fun. Like you mention I use a press to reload the cylinders. I have one chamber marked to prevent loading it (load five), That chamber also has the nipple colored red with a sharpie marker ( cheap and works well)
Make sure you seat you caps well as that seems to be one  of the common failures to fire with these guns.
I practiced with my guns by removeing the nipples to allow for dry fireing and find that helps alot. I am trying to work to shoot double duelist style as it is a great challenge for me to shoot left handed.
Having the guns tuned and adding after market nipples (tresco or slix) seem to be common and do help function.
Enjoy the endevor

 

[Noz]

I just finished LandRun. I had a gimpy knee so I laid claim to the unloading table as I could sit and still do posse chores.  I could load my Ruger Old Armys and watch the shooters unloading at the same time.  Usually took 2-3 shooters for me to finish my loading.  I was then free to watch the table or if someone offered to take my job I would go and watch the stage being run.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

Change your nipples! as said above.  Make sure you use either over ball lube or lubed wads between the ball and powder. No.10 Remington caps are the go to caps for seating and firing.

Ike

[J-BAR #18287]

I have shot 1851s, 1860s, and ROAs in CAS, and have never used spare cylinders or a separate loading press. I leave the cylinder in the gun and use the loading lever and rammer as it came from the factory.  

 

All loading supplies are carried in a purse-sized possibles bag.  If there is an empty stage next to the one my posse is shooting, I will recharge there.  If not, I will ask to be the unloading table officer for a while and recharge there between checking shooters.  

 

I can recharge both both cylinders in the time it takes 2 or 3 shooters to shoot the stage.

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

I have shot cap and ball for a long time, carry everything in a small fishing tackle box. Reload at the unloading table while manning it! Takes 5-10 min. then help with other posse duties, even running the timer. Cap at loading table. Have fun!

Rafe

[Talon Jamison]

I prefer the Remington New Model Army revolvers (Piettas) as changing the empty cylinders out for pre-loaded ones is quick and easy.

I keep all of my cap and ball pistols loaded, including the 8+ extra Remington cylinders, plus the spare pairs of revolvers that all use the same cylinders.

One set of pistols is used to pre-load all of the cylinders (no loading stand), and one set is used to shoot.

A belt pouch with a nipple pick, capper, and cap seating stick is all that is needed at the loading table to finish loading.

For a two day annual, the Colt-type revolvers come out the first day, Remingtons on day two, and the third day is spent cleaning all of the guns.

I use Slix-Nips exclusively with their recommended #10 Remington caps.

[Doc McCoy, SASS #8381]

I don't bother with the press, I used to use a folding stand to hold the pistol upright but don't bother with that any more either.  I recharge the chambers in the guns, my hands, it is faster.  Takes me two shooters to refill both and get my ammo for the next stage.  Then I'm ready to go back to posse work.  

[Lightfoot]

Problem with working reloading table is maintaining focus on loading your revolvers. I have a tray with that i place 5 ball and 5 wads. I don't talk to anyone until I have completely loaded a chamber. (hate it when I load wad and ball then wonder if I charged the chamber).  I know several that can get away with charging all, then place wads, then finish off with balls.(I've also seen double charges doing this)

I'd suggest establish a routine and stick to it.

I also use a stand for my revolvers.

[COAL CAR KID, SASS #15921]

I shot cap & ball guns a couple times at a shoot many years ago and couldn't get fully into it.

Last year I shot the Black Power shoot at Paradise Pass and got the BP bug; got it real bad.

I picked up a pair of Pietta 1851s for Christmas; shot them at the first match I shot this year, I haven't drug any of my cartridge pistols out of the safe yet this year.

 

I use an iron frame 1860 Henry in 44-40 and a beat up Chicom hammered double all stoked with 777.

 

I have enough extra cylinders to shoot a normal 5 Stage match without reloading between stages; I charge them the night before the match.

 

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I got me  pair of 1858 Remington's .

And a Remington 1863 Pocket pistol.

This should be fun with my Henry 1860 .

And a Mule Eared 12ga.

All with some APP fff BP sub. { Thanks Brett } 

[Griff]

I shoot 1851s, charge the pistols the first time at home, and try to shoot first or second... it takes me no longer to cap that most folks to load their revolvers.  Then at the unloading table I'll recharge the pistols, maybe take a couple, 3.., sometimes 4 shooters... then I'll relinquish the table and relieve someone else who hasn't shot.  It takes a while to develop a routine that can be followed so you can do the unloading table chores between loading steps.  I've used stands, presses and just the gun.  I've gotten a new stand that folds down, and kept in the guncart with my other supplies.  I try to position my cart near the unloading table, so everything is "right there".  When they're charged, I'll position them and my long guns at the next stage in line (we generally have an empty stage between posse's).   Sure was a LOT easier when we only used ONE pistol!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

12 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

I have shot 1851s, 1860s, and ROAs in CAS, and have never used spare cylinders or a separate loading press. I leave the cylinder in the gun and use the loading lever and rammer as it came from the factory.  

 

All loading supplies are carried in a purse-sized possibles bag.  If there is an empty stage next to the one my posse is shooting, I will recharge there.  If not, I will ask to be the unloading table officer for a while and recharge there between checking shooters.  

 

I can recharge both both cylinders in the time it takes 2 or 3 shooters to shoot the stage.

+1... with a newly acquired caveat.

 

I shoot .44 cal Pietta Sheriffs. Until recently, I loaded with the "on-board" ram, but had to use a cheater bar of copper tubing for leverage as the ram on those shortened barrels just isn't long enough. Over several years of loading this way, I discovered the rams developed a barely perceptible bend at the latching end and eventually wouldn't latch at the muzzle anymore. One of the best ways I can think of to ruin a stage is to have the loading ram drop during the course of fire. Anyways, I hammered them back into shape so they would latch, and have been loading off the frame since.

 

Yes, I still have time for posse duties.

 

Adding on: loading extra cylinders before the match results in extra cleaning after the match, which is anathema to me. I found that loading off the frame adds 60 seconds or less to the whole loading procedure per stage, which is way less than cleaning extra cylinders afterwards.

 

Just my 2 cents. 

[Chili Pepper Pete 11917]

I have been shooting C&B pistols for over 10 years and had always loaded on the guns. Last year I bought a Powder Inc loader and mounted it on my supply box.  I found that I can load almost twice as fast off the gun as I can on the gun.  After I leave the unloading table walk back to my cart and pop a cylinder, charge 5 with powder while holding it in my hand. I then put the cylinder in the press and load the RBs take out of the press, wipe the face of cylinder, brush the nipples and then put back in gun.  The whole process for both revolvers takes less than 5 mins.  For me it has become faster, less distracting and more consistent because everything I need is right there.    Like others have mentioned, come up with a system that is comfortable and works for you. There is no real wrong or right way.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

PS  I don't load my cylinders at home because I truly believe that you should always pop 10 caps prior to loading. oil and moisture from cleaning can getcha on the first stage if your not careful.

 

 

Good Luck,

 

Chili

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

3 hours ago, Chili Pepper Pete 11917 said:

I have been shooting C&B pistols for over 10 years and had always loaded on the guns. Last year I bought a Powder Inc loader and mounted it on my supply box.  I found that I can load almost twice as fast off the gun as I can on the gun.  After I leave the unloading table walk back to my cart and pop a cylinder, charge 5 with powder while holding it in my hand. I then put the cylinder in the press and load the RBs take out of the press, wipe the face of cylinder, brush the nipples and then put back in gun.  The whole process for both revolvers takes less than 5 mins.  For me it has become faster, less distracting and more consistent because everything I need is right there.    Like others have mentioned, come up with a system that is comfortable and works for you. There is no real wrong or right way.

 

Just my 2 cents,

 

PS  I don't load my cylinders at home because I truly believe that you should always pop 10 caps prior to loading. oil and moisture from cleaning can getcha on the first stage if your not careful.

 

 

Good Luck,

 

Chili

Thanks Chili .

Some info to think about .

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I used to man the unloading table and load my cap guns. Took about three to four shooters at fast stages or two at slower ones. I stopped for two reasons. First it seems there are a lot of older guys that prefer to take that job since they have trouble bending over for brass, or sight issues for spotting, and still want to be productive on the posse. And second, but more importantly, I got distracted and put a ball in an uncharged cylinder and charged one without a ball. What happened was the TO stopped me assuming I had a squib since he didn't see the ball hit anything. He offered a reshoot, but I don't take those especially when it was my fault. It also was a pain to dig the lead ball out since I couldn't fire it out. So now I always load at the next stage or another free table and take my time. I found that by doing this, I can load faster, and have no issues, as well as be back to the posse to pick up on posse chores. I just try to make sure I go either close to first or close to last.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

55 minutes ago, Redwood Kid said:

I used to man the unloading table and load my cap guns. Took about three to four shooters at fast stages or two at slower ones. I stopped for two reasons. First it seems there are a lot of older guys that prefer to take that job since they have trouble bending over for brass, or sight issues for spotting, and still want to be productive on the posse. And second, but more importantly, I got distracted and put a ball in an uncharged cylinder and charged one without a ball. What happened was the TO stopped me assuming I had a squib since he didn't see the ball hit anything. He offered a reshoot, but I don't take those especially when it was my fault. It also was a pain to dig the lead ball out since I couldn't fire it out. So now I always load at the next stage or another free table and take my time. I found that by doing this, I can load faster, and have no issues, as well as be back to the posse to pick up on posse chores. I just try to make sure I go either close to first or close to last.

That is good info .

I will need to see how things go .

This maybe the way I go .

[J Bird Blue, SASS # 57924]

I shoot Pietta stainless steel 1858 Remingtons. No extra cylinders. I load out of the gun. I load for the 1st stage the night before, I use an old pill bottle with alcohol to soak the cylinders and let them dry well. This removes any oil. I use pipe cleaners in the nipple, this cleans it and the wire acts as a nipple picks. Clean the nipple, snip pipe cleaner, clean the next nipple, snip and repeat. The press I use ( google Rydon Corporation )  screws down on all 6 chambers at once. I use a dipper to fill all used chambers with powder, an equal measure of grits (cheaper then wads) to fill chamber and prevent chain fires, add balls, press all 5 balls at once with a turn of the handle. I replaced my nipples with slix brand. I enlarged the opening at the nipples to use a Colt type snail capper. I also move to the next stage to load alone to prevent distractions. As mentioned, distractions can be disastrous. As stated, figure a routine that works for you and stick to it, improve routine as experience dictates. A few minutes and I'm back helping with chores. I have even shoot Josey Wales with 4 Remingtons and manage to help. Have fun!

[Marshal Fire, SASS 10064]

I also use a press to load the cylinders. Use one from Powder Inc but also understand that Dick Dastardly (Big Lube bullets) sells a nice one. I place the cylinder in the stand and lower the ram into the chamber that will not be loaded. Fill five chambers with powder, wad ( app does not need a wad) and then place the ball onto the chamber mouth, lift ram and seat the ball. So far works well enough to help keep it simple. I also stamped the serial number of the gun to cylinder to make sure I keep the correct cylinder to gun. I have the front of the cylinder marked with a engraved @ to id the chamber not to be loaded. Cap and ball is fun but anything I can do to help me keep the equipment from failure just takes away one less worry. Now just hit the target, hope the spotters call it clean and smile through the smoke.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

I have been shooting 1851 .36 Navies for around 10 years and have developed my own style as is noted above.  I carry my capper on my belt and have a cap pusher on my cartridge carrier when loading.  I load the first cylinder when I get to the match then immediately after I finish a stage.  I carry my powder, balls, and over ball lube in a possibles bag to be flexible so I can load at my cart, at an empty table, or a designated spot per the rules of some ranges.  

 

My guns have had different work on each one but the primary fix is to change out the nipples for Slix, Treso, or Thunder Ridge stainless with the smaller flash holes.  Some of the other fixes are Manhattan Mods with machined and welded hammers, Ruger hands springs, and action jobs.  My current set have had the barrels cut down to 4.75" but I have to use a SLix handle to help load the cyl on the gun.  It takes about 2-3 shooters to do all that and prep for the next stage so I still have plenty of time to help with posse duties.  

 

Your mileage may vary but I am back in the game faster than some folks with those new-fangled cartridges and can run an 8 stage day without a hiccup.  The secret for that is to have the lube over the ball to keep the face of the cylinder moist each time you fire.  

[Blackey Cole]

Look for capt Baylor S frrontiersman for dummies article on his web site if it still exists.  Oh manning the unloading table and charging cap guns is a iffy thing with all the interruptions it's bad enough when your away from the table and everyone asks questions if they are not used to it.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Lots of good info here .

Looks like the main thing is to find what works for you and repeat repeat repeat :-)

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

A word about wads and powder loading.  Some folks think wads are mandatory.  They are not but there should be an alternative barrier (Lube) to mitigate chain fires.  Chain fires are more common when caps fall off than past the balls so use tight caps. 

 

Lubed wads under the ball can be disastrous at worst and problematic at best.  Reason:::: the lube in the wad can contaminate the powder and can result in inconsistent/weak loads.  On some ranges, there is enough grass to start a fire with a burning wad.  After a couple of matches where I had poor ignition, I stopped using wads altogether.

 

So, Lubed wads over the ball----Dry or dry lubed wads under the ball if you want/need to use wads.

No wads at all-----lube over the balls-----Any food grade lube (Crisco), synthetic grease (No Petroleum products), or use a mix of your own design.  Mine is Bore Butter/Bee's wax/Olive Oil mixed to be workable @25* and won't melt at 105*.  I use a popsicle stick to dip it out of a pill bottle then smear it over the ball.

 

Powder loading----To get consistent loads of powder, I use a flask with a 21gr nipple (.36 cal FFFG).  Open the gate, turn over, then tap the flask gently against a solid object, close gate and pour.  This tapping of the flask settles the powder consistently in the space allowed and will eliminate light loads caused by bridging.  If you want to use pre-measured loads, this would still be the method of choice for consistency.  A dipper will not give you consistency unless you tap it and use a straight edge to level it off.

 

Most importantly of all, have fun!

[J-BAR #18287]

20 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

So, Lubed wads over the ball-

 

I have never seen nor heard of this being done.  Have you tried it yourself?

 

I smear lube over the ball, don't use wads at all.

[Dorado]

Just so y'all know I'm really enjoying this thread. Extremely informative.

If you don't mind me asking. What flasks are y'all using? Where do you get them and the nipples for them? Where do you get your balls?

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

2 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

I have never seen nor heard of this being done.  Have you tried it yourself?

 

I smear lube over the ball, don't use wads at all.

I have seen it done and have done it without issues but have converted to smearing lube over the ball since it works better and I don't have to mess with wads at all.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

1 hour ago, Dorado said:

Just so y'all know I'm really enjoying this thread. Extremely informative.

If you don't mind me asking. What flasks are y'all using? Where do you get them and the nipples for them? Where do you get your balls?

 

It's been a long time but my first '51's came from Cabela's so I probably got the flask and the nipple assortment from them.  The flask is the teardrop style, not the smaller round cylinder so it looks a bit more traditional.  The flask holds enough powder for 10-12 stages but I refill each day to make sure I don't run out during a big match.  

 

I run a Ted Cash style capper, works perfect for the Navies, that holds enough caps for 10-12 stages but like the powder, I refill each day to have plenty.  Remington's need the nipple recesses relieved to use a Ted Cash capper so most folks have to use the straight in-line cappers.

 

I used to get my round balls from Graf's but have been using Springfield Slim's .380's for the last several years since he makes my Big Lube bullets too.  I only shoot real BP anymore so the right bullet makes life much more pleasant.

[J-BAR #18287]

I like the Treso flask;

 

http://www.jedediah-starr.com/closeup.asp?cid=76&pid=870

 

but the CVA works just fine also:

 

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/711044/cva-range-model-flask-with-30-grain-spout-brass-5-oz

 

Both accept the standard spouts for a variety of powder volumes.

 

I have used the antique Colt-style flask, but these cylindrical flasks are easier to hold, IMO.

 

The CVA can be found at Bass Pro or Cabela's usually, in case you are close to one.

 

I also prefer the Tedd Cash snail or "universal" capper.  It works fine on 1851s, 1860s, 1861s, and ROAs, but I am told the 1858 Remmies don't like it.  Can't confirm that because I have never owned '58 Remmies.

 

http://www.tdcmfgstore.com/agora.cgi?cart_id=43485578.598849&p_id=C-CP&xm=on&ppinc=search2

 

I have found these in Cabela's stores also.

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Cactus Cris SASS#2790]

I haven't done CAS for a few years But when I did I used the "Patterson" style flask that was sold at Cabelas.  It is round and has an adjustable nozzle that you push into the cylinder and it drops whatever amount you set it for. Don't know if they still sell them.    I also used an "irrigation syringe" filled with my lube to squirt lube over the ball or conical.  loaded on a tower of power and could do 1 gun in less time than it takes to type this all out.  My cart was set up with places for the flask, bullets, lube syringe.  Shot 58,s mostly or ROA,s  the Colt type were harder due to wedge removal.  Always changed out the nips to Tresco type and used CCI 11 caps in ted Cash st line cappers.

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I just bought Remington #10 caps today .

Instock at Gander Mountain .

I usually dont shop there but I could not find them anywhere in stock.

Called out of desperation and they stock them .

Just putting it out there if you need some .

Try Gander Mountain.

[Rev Lyin Kerrdawg SASS # 57116]

I love Cap and ball. I don't shoot it as much as I want to. I have some 51's I have had for decades. Got a pair of Wild Bills 51's the first gift from the Irish Mafia 16 yrs ago, never been out of the box but 3 times. The grips have yellowed. I bought a pair of 58's short barrels with the conversion grips just for Woolaroc( Pursuit in the Osage) that Catoosa Red and Burley Bill puts on every year at Woolaroc Museum . look it up. Best Funnest shoot of the year. And the Sass Oklahoma State BP Championships I put on in the Fall @ Tulsey Town Cattlemens Association. But the best pair I love the most is my Rogers And Spencers. They are just so darn heavy.Listen to Blackey Cole and go to Capt Baylors site. It will help you out a bunch. I just sent my 87 to a buddy to get smoothed out. I hate doubles,got 97's out the Wazoo, can't shoot them in Frontiersman, but I can the 87. All of the above Cowboys know about this black fun, One day I will get to meet the great Noz,. I had to take a dremmel and widen the mouths my 58"s nipple to accept my straight line cappers. I use the CVA powder flask that J-Bar talked about. Its the best to use for me. I load 2 of them for a match and 4 straight line cappers. I buy the 200 thick felt wads(USA 094) by Pedersoli Cut them in 4 small wads , then stick them in a hard plastic container/ lid squirt some 1000 yellow lube in the microwave to put between the powder and ball. I not telling what to do because you do, its just what I found works quick for me. Enjoy

 

Rev

[Blackey Cole]

Here is the process I use I find it worked flawlessly with my roas. Before first stage of day I would fire caps off for each cylinder even the two I didnot plan on using just in case I had to.  My roas had five of the six factory nipples replaced with tresso nipples that's all I have ever done to them.  One was bought used locally the other I bought thru cables and had them mail it to me.

 

pull cylinder out of frame now you have two prices of metal no firearms. One gun at a time.  Wipe down with either a shop rag moistened with winded wirh viniger.then take paper towel corner torn off or patch and wipe out each chamber.  Then place cylinder on .tower of power loading press.  Wipe down frame especially front and back areas where residue forms and top and bottom of inside frame, cock hammer wipe it down now lower to half cock and wipe rest of frame.

 

noeusinf powder flask with calibrated spout form the amount of powder you desire to use I had three different sizes and two of the brass flasks that have spring loaded values.  I measure the powder by inverting flask shaking it to settle powder against my finger covering the opening once each for the five cylinders with tresso nipples then I inspect the depth of each chamber looking for abnormallites in depth if it looks good I replace cylinder in top press I set one correctly soversized ball over each of these chambers and the press the ball into the chamber compressing the powder slightly.  I inspect the depth of the balls for consistency. Then I return the cylinder to the frame being mindful of the muzzle direction as you now have a firearm.  I repeat with second roa.  Then when ready to shoot I move to loading table.  

 

At loading table i verify shotgun is cocked, load rifle, then cap revolvers using a Ted Nash snail capper I carry two one on a lanyard with a nipple pick on the other end.  Reason for two in case I drop one on the line if needed I start with the one on the lanyard that way I can release it and let it hang to save time of having to return it.  If you have a cap that noesnt pop the first time but does the second time is because it wasn't firmly seated at the loading table I use a antler tip to firmly seat my caps at the table.  If you end up having a charged chamber after finishing the stage do not leave the line until you recap after using the nipple pick to punch a hole into the powder and recap the firing it off if it still doesn't fire declare it as broken then remove the cylinder from the frame carefully point the open end of the cylinder at the berm either back or unloading side all the way to the ult.  At the ult remove the nipple of the effective chamber the drive out the ball either by adding a small amount of powder under the direction of the To then return to the line after reassembling the firearm including  replacing the nipple recap it on the line under the To direction then fire it off dislodging the ball and clearing the chamber and barrel.  The other option is using a small rod that fits thru the nipple hole without damaging the threads pound out the ball.  Odds are the powder was wet or nonexistent.

 

have fun develope a process or routine and stick to it the ult is a good place to recharge the cylinders but be mindful that you will have many interruptions and need to know where you left off I usually tried to do one step per shooter unless there was a problem with one of the shooters if that doesn't work for youclaim the upange cornerand have the previous shooter clear the next until you are done then take over the table once your charged also you can clear shooters until you done wiping the guns down but once you get to the powder step be mindful of what you are doing.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

The thing I've learned and love about C&B thru the years is everybody has a favorite, if sometimes eccentric way of doing things. Some make it much more difficult than it needs to be and swear that's the path to the "holy grail". C&B can be part black art, sorcery, science and very much a matter of subjectivity. I guess that's why it's so intriguing.

[Rev Lyin Kerrdawg SASS # 57116]

Howdy Blackey,

 

       I love the way you go through the same procedure. Almost the exact same as myself . I find most C&B cowboys are extremely OCD. Interruptions oh yes, I found years ago these bright orange rubber / plastic nipple  rings for BP guns. There is a dozen in a plastic bag,forget the name, I put one on the nipple for the open empty chamber hole. I also cut a dowel and put it in the empty open chamber hole. with bright orange paint on the end. I have been experimenting with paper patch bullets for a couple of months. Just about to perfect it. I know I will get flamed for making that statement, people will say "why go to all that trouble"  Answer, I don't have anything but time, now retired, and I want to. so There. Just talking C&B and I have my Rogers and Spencers out . I stripped the blue off them and polishing them. They are Euroarms    . I think I will order a white set of grips from Tombstone Grips for them. Get em Rooster, get em.

 

Rev