Cap and Ball guns for

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Now I just decided to change guns .

I was going to shoot the Remington's .

Which pulling the cylinders off and loading off the guns would be no issue.

 

But I just bought a set of slicked up Colt 1860's .

So now I will need to see how the loading process is going to go ?

 

You all have given Me much good info .

Thank you .

 

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I have a really big question !

How do you guys deal with the empty cylinder ?

Do you leave the Cone  Off that hole ?

Do you put a special kind of Cap on ?

( so if you loose count you dont damage the Cone by dry firing the gun )

 

[Griff]

47 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I have a really big question !

How do you guys deal with the empty cylinder ?

Do you leave the Cone  Off that hole ?

Do you put a special kind of Cap on ?

( so if you loose count you dont damage the Cone by dry firing the gun )

The range you shoot at may have some specific rules, so read up on those.  But... I charge all 6 chambers, then cap five @ the loading table.  In 30 years of shooting C&B revolvers in CAS I've never had a chain-fire, but have had a reason to cap that sixth chamber in order to get 5 shots off.  I load with GOEX, a lubed Ox-Yoke wad, and a cast or swaged pure lead ball that is sized to cut a "ring-of-lead" when pressed in the cylinder.  I've used stock nipple, and just about every aftermarket one that's come out.

 

Oh yeah, if you do decide to fire off a cap on your unloaded guns prior to charging... make sure to have a nipple prick to make sure you have a clear hole after doing so.  More than once, I've had a piece of the cap stick inside the flash hole, (just one of many reasons I've needed that 6th chamber charged).

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

1 hour ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I have a really big question !

How do you guys deal with the empty cylinder ?

Do you leave the Cone  Off that hole ?

Do you put a special kind of Cap on ?

( so if you loose count you dont damage the Cone by dry firing the gun )

 

You gotta use your eyes and look.

 

If you're loading on the gun, load powder, ball and lube before moving to the next chamber. Or you can load powder and ball on 5 cylinders and go around afterwards with the lube. Only put lube where you see a ball.

 

If using lubed wads, load powder, lubed wad, then ball, move to the next chamber and repeat 5 times. You should end up with one empty chamber. Verify with eyeballs.

 

If you're loading with the cylinder off the gun, look in the holes to see where you are.

 

Before getting to the loading table, index your cylinder so the empty chamber is at the loading gate. At the loading table, pull the hammer to half cock which indexes first loaded chamber to the loading gate. Cap and repeat 5 times.  Use push stick to seat cap firmly on nipple.

 

Verify at loading table that caps are on loaded chambers only. No cap on empty chamber. That's the one without ball or lube visible. 

 

It's really very simple if you follow the same procedure each and every time. If you're easily distracted by others asking questions or just trying to jaw with you, go someplace where you can be alone and concentrate until finished.

 

It ain't rocket surgery, but it does require concentration until muscle memory sets in.

 

Most of all, have fun!

[COAL CAR KID, SASS #15921]

1 hour ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I have a really big question !

How do you guys deal with the empty cylinder ?

Do you leave the Cone  Off that hole ?

Do you put a special kind of Cap on ?

( so if you loose count you dont damage the Cone by dry firing the gun )

 

You could also put a different color cone on the empty; I don't but could.

I have blued guns with Slix stainless cones, I could install one of the blued factory cones on the empty.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

20 minutes ago, COAL CAR KID, SASS #15921 said:

You could also put a different color cone on the empty; I don't but could.

I have blued guns with Slix stainless cones, I could install one of the blued factory cones on the empty.

I find that after one stage, all nipples are blackened with soot and indistinguishable. Only way to tell is to scrub between stages, and I'm not gonna do that.  

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Thaks Blackey Cole .

Thats some great step by step info .

I was thinking about paper towel and milk moose .

I like the idea of Windex and Viniger in a spray bottle .

I shoot APP Premium so I dont think I will have as much of a issue with pistols gumming up.

Rooster

 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

I use a orange silicone cap made for waterproofing a cap on hunting rifles.  Always easy to see.  Got them from Cabela's.

[Brasspounder]

FWIW, here is "another" way to load C&B revolvers for a match...

 

I don't like to have to carry a bunch of extra paraphernalia during any match.  So I do a bit of preparation ahead of time, ,and it has worked out very well over the last dozen years or so of Frontiersman shooting.

 

Guns & preparation:  A pair of Uberti 1851 Navy .36's.  

These guns have had the nipples replaced with Treso nipples, then subsequently with good stainless aftermarket

nipples.  Reason for change,from the Treso's was inability to always procure Remington No. 10 Caps, and having to use other makes of No. 11 caps. The stainless nipples have cones that are shaped for and  take No. 11 Remington and other brands of caps properly, and I can..also use Rem 10s on them as well. The Tresos were fine but No 11 caps were "too loose" to fit properly on them. .

 

Only other thing I did to these guns was to make and fit  better flat handsprings, and replace the bolt-trigger springs with the piano wire 'Heinie" springs to end problems with the bolt spring breakage. .End of problems with springs.  Mainsprings were left stock.  Have had to repair broken end  on one loading lever,..it developed a crack on the top where the latchpiece fits in.

 

 Balls:

I cast my own 0.375 balls out of wheelweights.  These swedge into the chamber mouths just fine. Easie/cheaper to get than pure lead most of the time here.

 

Gun cleaning:

I use only water, nothing else, hot if I can get it. Plain  Water dissolves all the corrosive salts and washes all the fouling away, There is no rust if everything is dried properly (even when using Pyrodex which is less expensive and usually more readily available than real black), although I do use that if available.  Pyrodex "RS". or FFg BP. are the powder granulations I prefer. .

 

I take the barrels and cylinders off the frames, ,pour hot water thru the barrels, , and brush the bores and forcing cones and wipe dry and then shove a plug of newsprint or paper towel through to dry them.. Then run an oily patch trough when fully dry.

 

Cylinders are cleaned without removing nipples, except once a year to renew the anti-sieze on the threads.. I soak the cylinders  mouth down in hot water, then brush the nipples and nipple recesses dry, blow the water out of the cones, and then wipe the chambers to the bottom with twisted newsprint or a chunk of cotton rope that gets down in there  and cleans the chamber bottoms. When squeaky clean and dry, I put no oil in there anywhere unless pistols  going to be stored for a while, then only wipe the chambers  lightly with oily rag.  

 

Revolver frames are wiped with a damp cloth and brushed to remove all visible fouling.   Pistols are torn completely down about once a year to clean the lockworks.

I use olive oil for lube ,and it soaks the fouling up and only results in black goo in there  that wipes off without any rusting of internal parts..  No undue wear has occurred to internal parts after a dozen years of use with this cleaning method.  

This way the guns are ready to go again immediately.

 

I prepare my balls prior to a shoot by using a small tool I made that squishes a small amount of my favorite lube  mix (90% beeswax/10% olive oil)

onto two out of every five balls I take to the match. I squish out some of the lube mix out onto a flat plate,about 1/8 inch thick, then cut "cookies" out of it 

with the tool,,and use a simple  little press to force the lube onto the balls from the cookie in the end of the  tool.  This lube mix is "stiff" enough and very sticky, so it stays on the balls until I am ready to load the pistols.  The lubed balls and naked balls are carried in a  flat tin with 2 lubed balls for every three naked  balls, enough for a day's match of however many times the pistols will need to be loaded.

 

Loading:

I load the pistols with the cylinders in and use the loading levers as was meant to be used.  I do not pick any certain chamber to leave empty.

 

I Charge five chambers from a smaller regular teardrop flask with a spout cut for 20 grain charge by volume. 

Then I load one naked ball, one  lubed ball, with the lube down on the powder, then a naked ball, then a lubed ball,,finally a naked ball,,. This results in five chambers being loaded with a lubed ball between each naked ball, and there are no worries about chain fires because there is always a lubed ball in the chamber  next to the one being fired. which adequately seals the chamber up next..

The lube mix is such that it will not contaminate the powder charge with it loaded under the ball. even on hot days, as it has to be much warmer than about 150 degrees to melt.

On firing, the two lubed balls out of five provide adequate  lubrication to the cylinder front and no jamming due to fouling occurs there..

On occasion on very hot dry days, I might have to pull the barrels off and wipe the arbors, but usually  these guns will go a five stage match without having to do that..

 

Although this loading method is somewhat different than what most C&B shooters do, I attribute this method of loading to one of our Australian pards who put me onto it many years ago,and have had extremely good results with it.

Also, I only need to take my flask, and the tin of prepared balls as described to the stages for reloading, which cuts down on what needs to be carried. I don't have to mess with squishing lube into the cylinder fronts after loading. I can load both pistols at the unloading table while also watching two or three other shooters unload and clear, and then have time to go spot or pick brass,  or whatever else needs to git done.

 

I use Tedd Cash snail cappers to cap the pistols at the loading table, and  a special seating stick to check and make sure each cap is fully and properly seated on the nipple cones. before going to the firing line. .

 

Bp

 

 

[J-BAR #18287]

Good post, Brasspounder!

 

Nice to hear from you!!  

[Blackey Cole]

I thought about the patch way once but I was wrong since I was using holy wood for an example.  Saw a shooting shoe this week I had on DVD where they took a my long gun and the French breechloader and shot them off the French was easier and faster to load  swing trigger guard out put bullet in the hole, pour powder in the hole, swing guard back tilt gun to prism side so excess powder will fall in pan.  The ky rifle used tradional loading the French used the patched setup as I recall. The difference was hollyweird cramped the paper in the barrel after tearing one end off in the show this week they tore the ball out of the paper poured the powder in and thru the paper away.  

Paper patching that way would make it easier as you wouldn't need to measure powder on the stage tear off the end pour powder in chamber remove ball and trash paper repeat for the remainder of chambers each stage if you get interrupted dump powder place ball if you opened it if not hangon to it. 

 

A better idea i had was a multi item like the muzzle loading hunters used. Using six tubes with sling loaded nipples that when you press the powder falls out in the chamber then the ball lays on the chamber maybe able to use a ball starter to seat the ball firmly in the chamber then take the cylinder to the tower of power to finish seating the balls compressing the powder.  But it would have been easier and cheaper to buy cylinders for each stage plus one for reshoots.  No with 3D printers I'm sure the multi tube could be prototyped before going to have commercially made for a small demand.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I got my new sheriff models Pietta 1860 today .

All tuned up by Coffimaker .

WOW beautiful guns and beautiful work .

Cant wait to go out and make SMOKE !

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

I took the  1860's out for a trial run !

WOW great work Colorado Coffinmaker , These babies are SWEET !

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Yep, he's Da Man!

Now, take 'em to a match & put a whoopin' on the competition!

--Dawg

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

1 hour ago, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

Yep, he's Da Man!

Now, take 'em to a match & put a whoopin' on the competition!

--Dawg

Thanks Dawg .

Im not a fast shooter by any stretch .

The only thing the Cap and Ball will slow down for Me ,

Is My Loading lol.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Change of plans .

Ordered a Powder inc . Loader .

And Cabelas has 1860 cylinders on sale right now for 39.99 .

So I just Ordered 2 more cylinders from Cabelas.

2 sets of slix nipples from Long Hunters .

.

Thanks for everyones input.

Rooster .

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

On 4/24/2017 at 4:29 PM, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

I have a really big question !

How do you guys deal with the empty cylinder ?

Do you leave the Cone  Off that hole ?

Do you put a special kind of Cap on ?

( so if you loose count you dont damage the Cone by dry firing the gun )

 

I typically leave the nipple off that hole.  

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

1 hour ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

I typically leave the nipple off that hole.  

That's what I do as well, though I've still managed to load up that cylinder before. 

[Blackey Cole]

One more thing I carry my ml rifle balls in a leather pouch and but bore butter in it tou lube them up for mt roas I used altoids metal tins to carry the balls in I've seen pouches with a long neck for dispensing balls I used the round flasks with spouts that are removable and cut to a corsponding length to through a correct powder charge I have three sizes and usually two of each. Then the Ted Nash snail cap dispensers, tower of power reloading press, I used round balls .  I use amsoil mp and windex with viniger. I used bounty paper towels and few patches each day on a s$w cleaning rod with a 45 cal mop plus a shop rag.  That's what I carried just for the revolvers plus a rack to hold the frames and cylinders.  It took up the basket I had on the front of my scooter. Now I have it in an equivalent of a plastic fifty cal can then another can when stock for replenishing the stuff used. I've seen wooden TV trays use with the big items mounted a block for holding the balls a block for holding the flask and tools and the press. They transport it using the gun cart.  If I was going to shoot plainsman or frontiersman I might go with a plain wooden TV tray so I'm not stuck at the unloading table.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Well I Engraved one hole on each cylinder .

Then I left a stock black nipple on that hole.

So I should be able to tell what hole to leave uncharged .

Then I made a little table that hangs on my cart .

This way I can set on my cart and put the table in front of me and load my cylinders.

I bought a Powder inc loading press.

And two more cylinders .

This way I load all four cylinders at home.

Then I only need to load three times to make it threw a shoot .

I got a Brass powder flask with a 30gr spout to fill the cylinders .

And a Ted Cash snail capper .

I bought 1000 Remington #10s the other day on sale 15% off at GM.

Im using APP powder so I should Not have to much fowling .

And I got a rag and Windex with Vinegar spray bottle to wipe down guns .

I am shooting my first mach today with Cap guns .

We will see how things work out .

Rooster .

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

5 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Well I Engraved one hole on each cylinder .

Then I left a stock black nipple on that hole.

So I should be able to tell what hole to leave uncharged .

Then I made a little table that hangs on my cart .

This way I can set on my cart and put the table in front of me and load my cylinders.

I bought a Powder inc loading press.

And two more cylinders .

This way I load all four cylinders at home.

Then I only need to load three times to make it threw a shoot .

I got a Brass powder flask with a 30gr spout to fill the cylinders .

And a Ted Cash snail capper .

I bought 1000 Remington #10s the other day on sale 15% off at GM.

Im using APP powder so I should Not have to much fowling .

And I got a rag and Windex with Vinegar spray bottle to wipe down guns .

I am shooting my first mach today with Cap guns .

We will see how things work out .

Rooster .

Just remember that when shooting open tops, 30gr is too much.  .36=21grs and .44=25grs by my recollection.

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

When I was shooting my 1860/44ers, My Flask spout was adjusted for 22-23 grains. Seems just about right for our sport.

 

I really like my 51/36's !

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Shot my first shoot with my Cap guns today .

Found out what works for me and what dont.

30 gr. Works great in my book .

 

Two failures to fire on the first  cylinder  .

Other then that shot clean for the rest of the day .

I shot  Frontiersman  Double Duelist ~ FIRST PLACE !  

Ur Ur Ur !

 

Pick your Category wisely !

 

I was very surprised I had NO Misses with my left hand .

I was able to load my cylinders and get out to help with Posse in four shooters.

I used My 1860 Colts with my 1860 Henry and a hammered single shot 12ga .

What a great time I had .

Thank you all for the pointers .

Rooster 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

8 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

Shot my first shoot with my Cap guns today .

Found out what works for me and what dont.

30 gr. Works great in my book .

 

Two failures to fire on the first  cylinder  .

Other then that shot clean for the rest of the day .

I shot  Frontiersman  Double Duelist ~ FIRST PLACE !  

Ur Ur Ur !

 

 

30 grs is generally above the recommended load for an open top.  I believe my Pietta book lists a .44 @ 25 grs.  If you are going to use that load, keep an eye on your cylinder gap as you are likely to start stretching the frame.  

 

One of the problems of loading cylinders at home is you are not necessarily sure your nipples are clear and stay clear before shooting.  Take a tip cleaner and run through the nipple before your first stage to make sure there is nothing there.  You don't need to go deep, just into the powder.  Also, when prepping, I always spray the cylinder down with brakekleen to make double sure the chamber is dry before loading.  Running a round of caps only will burn the oil out of the cylinder to get it ready as well.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

5 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

30 grs is generally above the recommended load for an open top.  I believe my Pietta book lists a .44 @ 25 grs.  If you are going to use that load, keep an eye on your cylinder gap as you are likely to start stretching the frame.  

 

One of the problems of loading cylinders at home is you are not necessarily sure your nipples are clear and stay clear before shooting.  Take a tip cleaner and run through the nipple before your first stage to make sure there is nothing there.  You don't need to go deep, just into the powder.  Also, when prepping, I always spray the cylinder down with brakekleen to make double sure the chamber is dry before loading.  Running a round of caps only will burn the oil out of the cylinder to get it ready as well.

 

The 30gr nipple really drops about 27 to 28 gr.

It definitely is not a hot load .

I wipe out the cylinders with Alcohol and a Q-Tip and blow threw nipples with 90 psi air .

 

When I get home .

I put all cylinders in a tub with nipples removed and pored boiling hot water over them .

And put a cover on and let them set for a few minutes.

Did the same thing with the nipples.

 

I pulled them out one at a time and run a wire brush threw all the holes and blow out with blow gun .

( still so hot they dry in seconds )

Pull nipples out of hot water one at a time and do the same .

Lube and install nipples .

Wipe down out side of cylinders and put away .

 

Thanks for all the info.

I had a blast shooting Frontiersman Double Duelist !

God bless.

Rooster .

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

There's a chance there was a bit too much lube on the nipples that caused the misfires with the one cylinder.  If you spray some Brakekleen or alcohol into the cylinders then blow them dry before you load, it will cure that problem.

 

I clean my cylinders by soaking them in hot water as I clean the rest of the gun.  I don't take the nipples out all that often, just use a toothbrush to clean the outside.  I use a bore mop inside the chambers then wash it down with Brakekleen before blowing everything dry.  I store mine with breakfree as a coating so I have to degrease it before getting ready for a shoot.

 

Everyone has their own method but mine works for me.  I have had only one cap fire only in 3-K rounds downrange.

[Blackey Cole]

I would take a 45 cal mop on a s&w pistol rod a rod that ends in a loop then take a patch and dry our each chamber before popping caps brfore the first stage of the day. When I did it they went pop when I wasn't able they might go pop, but everytime I would have one that didn't then had to pull nipple add powder recap and clear before going to unloading table.

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

On 5/12/2017 at 9:34 PM, Redwood Kid said:

That's what I do as well, though I've still managed to load up that cylinder before. 

 

That 3F Black Powder just pours right out that hole in the bottom, don't it?  Uh,  at least that's what I've heard... 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

1 hour ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

 

That 3F Black Powder just pours right out that hole in the bottom, don't it?  Uh,  at least that's what I've heard... 

Well I wouldn't know. I somehow managed to load one chamber with powder and wad, and the non nipple one with a ball. Oops 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

5 hours ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

 

That 3F Black Powder just pours right out that hole in the bottom, don't it?  Uh,  at least that's what I've heard... 

Without a nipple, it sure will.  Even FFG will pour through that hole.  Maybe use some cannon so it will bridge

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

How would you pull or push out a ball if you load a uncharged chamber ?

Or if a chamber wont fire ?

I have not had this happen YET , But Im sure it will at some point .

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

6 minutes ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

How would you pull or push out a ball if you load a uncharged chamber ?

Or if a chamber wont fire ?

I have not had this happen YET , But Im sure it will at some point .

I took the nipple off and used a thin cleaning rod to push the ball back out. I had contemplated pouring powder in from the other side and trying to shoot it out, but decided against it. Too many variables going on from that side, and these were my 2nd gen colts so I decided to do it the safe way.

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

2 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

How would you pull or push out a ball if you load a uncharged chamber ?

Or if a chamber wont fire ?

I have not had this happen YET , But Im sure it will at some point .

 

Another method would be to use a device like this one:
http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Shooting/Black-Powder/Black-Powder-Accessories|/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104218380/Cabelas-CO2-Load-Discharger/4225.uts

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

2 hours ago, Redwood Kid said:

I took the nipple off and used a thin cleaning rod to push the ball back out. I had contemplated pouring powder in from the other side and trying to shoot it out, but decided against it. Too many variables going on from that side, and these were my 2nd gen colts so I decided to do it the safe way.

Yup, although I use a solid brass rod found at the hardware store and cut to appropriate length. Just a few whacks with a hammer & it's done. No need for specialized tools.

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

4 hours ago, Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423 said:

 

Another method would be to use a device like this one:
http://www.cabelas.com/ensemble/Shooting/Black-Powder/Black-Powder-Accessories|/pc/104792580/c/104701680/sc/104218380/Cabelas-CO2-Load-Discharger/4225.uts

I watch your Videos on YouTube .

You was one of my inspirations to shoot Cap Guns, Double Duelist Frontiersmen . Lol

Is this the method you use ?