Cops and Carry condition

[Ramblin Gambler]

Just wondering what condition cops carry their firearms in. Had someone tell me that almost all cops carry with the safety disengaged even if the gun has a safety. For instance, if it's a 1911, that would be condition 0. I just can't imagine a department allowing something like that, especially when you consider how hard it was to get some of them to approve a gun without a manual safety. The 1911 might be an argument all of it's own, but what about guns like the Beretta 92?

 

When I was a young man, the cop friends I had were the ones who taught me to disengage the safety as I was drawing. But I know we have some folks around here who served more recently, so I am wondering if that's changed.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

My 1911 was 'condition 1' on and off duty.

B/92 with the safety off is no different than any revolver.

OLG

[Johnny Dollar]

Well, I'm not a cop but I know several..... I'd have to question who said that. I don't know of anyone let alone a cop that would carry his service weapon off safety.

 

Now going to the 1911 question.... I own several and have been around them all my life. My Dad was a Navy ordinaceman in WWII and showed me how to strip one down to the screws when I was a kid. Anyway, carrying a 1911 cocked and off safety will most assuredly result in shooting yourself in the leg at best if drawn in a hurry.

 

That all being said, most police carry Glocks anyway... so with the Glock "Always safe and always ready" makes it a moot point. There is no safety to disable per say.

[Alpo]

I ain't nowhere near a cop, but it depends on the gun.

 

I carry my 1911s, and for that matter, any and all other single action automatics, Condition 1 - cocked and locked.

 

My Walthers, Berettas and Mak - double action autoloaders - yeah, I carry 'em with the safety off. I see no more need for a safety on a DA automatic than I do for one on a DA revolver. I would never engage it either.

[Ramblin Gambler]

I sure as heck wouldn't carry a gun around with the safety off (if it has one), but I fully admit I'm kinda funny about things like that. That's why I wanted to ask the lawdogs. I bet there aint many in SASS who still have a working automatic safety on their shotgun. When I got it tuned up, I specifically told him to leave the safety fully functional.

[Chief Rick]

The LE agencies I'm familiar with mostly carry Glock' s or S&W M&P's - striker fired with no safeties.

 

The one agency I am familiar with that differs requires a hammered DA/SA with de-cocker.

 

With that one agency, as with the Navy, the weapon had a round chambered and the safety engaged.

[John Barleycorn, SASS #76982]

One in the chamber, no safety on the Sig P220.

[ShadowCatcher]

Any single action pistol should be carried as designed, i.e. - cocked and locked. Getting it into a "hammer down

on a live round" condition is very unsafe, and having the chamber empty requires (typically two handed) manipulation

during high stress times (an impending or on-going gun fight).

 

A double action pistol can be carried de-cocked and off safe, thus being no less safe then a double action revolver.

 

However, a double action pistol carried on safe has the advantage of possibly being 'proprietary' in nature, that is,

if taken from you by surprise or during an assault the assailant may not know how to disengage the safety

rapidly, buying you time to fight further, or draw a back-up gun.

 

Most folks know how to take their pistol off safe during the draw, or should learn to, for two reasons: it's safer, and

it is also possible the pistol may have gone on-safe at any time. If you aren't in the habit of assuring it is off safe,

you may spend the rest of your life wondering why it didn't go bang.

 

If you carry a Glock or other modern design without a distinct locking safety the point is moot.

 

Just my $0.02 worth,

 

Shadow Catcher

[Smoken D]

When KCPD went to semi's we had the S&W 4026. Full pull on the trigger for the first round then the hammer was back for the second etc with the trigger pull around 3#. There was a decocker on the side to engage that would release the hammer back to the safe position which needed the full trigger pull to fire that first shot again.

[Charlie Whiskers]

I knew quite a few of the local LEO's when I was living in Minnesota. Went on several ride along's with a couple of them. They could choose what they wanted to carry. One carried a 1911 cocked and locked. The other had a Beretta 9mm and he carried his safety on. I have a S&W 4006 single double action. I carry that sometimes and when I do it's safety on but it also has a de-cocker. Typically I carry a 2 inch ported 357. I trust wheel guns more than I do semi auto's.

[Shorty Jack Hammer]

I carry both my 1911's (on and off duty) cocked and locked just the way it was designed to be.

[Hashknife Cowboy]

Colt 1911; hammer back, chambered round and safety on. Why would anyone carry anything with a safety and not utilize it with a round in the chamber?

[Black Angus McPherson]

On duty pistol was a Beretta 92fs. A DA/SA pistol. Carried fully loaded with the hammer down on a loaded chamber and the safety off. Too many things happening too fast to have to worry about taking the safety off when the SHTF. Remember, we're talking about a bunch of folks (not all) that probably wouldn't ever own a gun if they weren't a LEO. They shoot as little as required and practicing on their own is considered a waste of good HALO/drinking/whatever time.

 

As could be easily predicted, different departments have different rules. I seem to recall a nearby department, that also carried the Beretta 92fs, had their officers carrying with the safety on.

 

Off duty I carry a SA semi with the hammer back and the safety on. There's something about a 1911 style safety that feels natural - swiping the safety downward on the draw - as opposed to the very unnatural (for me) Beretta safety where you have to push it upward.

 

Angus

[Matthew Duncan]

I'll be telling my age but back in my day our duty REVOLER didn't have no safety AND were loaded with 6.

 

I don't see any difference with today's double action semi-autos, don't need no stinking safety.

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

I carried my Colt Commander (shorter barrel than a 1911) cocked and locked on and off duty.

[Black Angus McPherson]

I'll be telling my age but back in my day our duty REVOLER didn't have no safety AND were loaded with 6.

 

I don't see any difference with today's double action semi-autos, don't need no stinking safety.

Yup, I started with a revolver in a "suicide" holster. Full flap covering revolver (Think Civil War). Real POS. More than one copper got out of his car and found that his revolver had managed to fall out of the holster in the car. A leather bucket with a flap. Great retention.

 

I once chased a guy across a field and had my holster come OFF my belt. So I was chasing the guy carrying my revolver, STILL IN THE HOLSTER, in one hand while talking on the "brick" in my other hand telling dispatch where I was headed. All the while wondering if I was going to get bi@#%@d at by the capt. because I left my hat in the car. Good times. :-)

 

We went to good level 2(?) holsters a couple years after I started and then to the Beretta a couple years after that.

 

Angus

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

Carried a 1911 as a lawman.

Cocked and locked. Every time. No exception.

My partner went with a Ruger 9mm and even though it was a DA, he carried the decocker/safety engaged.

His reasoning was:

He trained exclusively with that sidearm.

He shoved it off safe on draw.

He felt he could off-safe on the draw, reliably, even under stress.

Should it be taken from him with the decocker engaged, the bad guy would pull the trigger to no ill effect.

His choice was made after an interdepartmental discussion on FBI statistics showing most cops were killed with their own gun.

[Smoken D]

Ok, about age, anyone use a call box. Had a few on the corners back in the days. Oh boy, I asked for that one :lol:

[Tascosa, SASS# 24838]

Ok I started my Law enforcement with a Colt Python, AND I do seem to remember using a call box. Hated those things at 2 AM where the only thing lighted up was YOU in your unit.

Does this make me old?? I will never get old, just older.

[Alpo]

Anyone remember the story of the Illinois State Police and the Smith and Wesson 39?

 

When they first came out with the 39, the Illinois State Police was one of the first agencies to issue it.

 

One cop had his gun taken. The bad guy tried to shoot the cop. The safety was on. He pushed a lever. It was the slide-stop. It did nothing. Tried to shoot the cop. Didn't work. Pushed some more stuff. Magazine release. Mag dropped to the ground. Tried to shoot the cop. No go. FINALLY found the safety. But since the mag was out, the magazine disconnect took over. STILL could not shoot the cop. By then the cop had gotten his stick out and beat the hell out of him.

[Bad Hand]

Anyone remember the story of the Illinois State Police and the Smith and Wesson 39?

 

When they first came out with the 39, the Illinois State Police was one of the first agencies to issue it.

 

One cop had his gun taken. The bad guy tried to shoot the cop. The safety was on. He pushed a lever. It was the slide-stop. It did nothing. Tried to shoot the cop. Didn't work. Pushed some more stuff. Magazine release. Mag dropped to the ground. Tried to shoot the cop. No go. FINALLY found the safety. But since the mag was out, the magazine disconnect took over. STILL could not shoot the cop. By then the cop had gotten his stick out and beat the hell out of him.

I also remember when they first issued the model 39s, no provision was made to carry a spare magazine on the belt. IIRC they were carried in a full flap cross draw holster.

[Black Angus McPherson]

RE: Call boxes. We had about 6 spread around town. Whenever someone at the station wanted to talk to you and didn't want the info to go over the air you used a call box. (Or pay phone using 911) I still have a key somewhere. I sure wish I had gotten one of the boxes when they pulled them down.

 

Angus

[Ramblin Gambler]

Ok, about age, anyone use a call box. Had a few on the corners back in the days. Oh boy, I asked for that one :lol:

In what condition did you carry your flintlock pistols?

[Smoken D]

In what condition did you carry your flintlock pistols?

 

HOT!

 

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[Henry T Harrison]

I missed the call boxes but my first issue revolver was a model 10 with 158 grain round nose bullets carried in a Jordan holster. Spare ammo was in a dump pouch. The car had a bubble light, a single tone siren a two channel radio with a six foot whip antenna. It did however have a 440 Hemi.

[Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L]

I missed the call boxes but my first issue revolver was a model 10 with 158 grain round nose bullets carried in a Jordan

holster. Spare ammo was in a dump pouch. The car had a bubble light, a single tone siren a two channel radio with a six foot whip antenna. It did however have a 440 Hemi.

Lucky guy!!! You had "spare" ammo !!!!!

We had the Crown Vics decked out the same way. They sure were hot with no A/C !!!!

Edit! Now I'm thinking back to 1971 maybe those first all black cruisers were Dodges!

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Just wondering what condition cops carry their firearms in. Had someone tell me that almost all cops carry with the safety disengaged even if the gun has a safety. For instance, if it's a 1911, that would be condition 0. I just can't imagine a department allowing something like that, especially when you consider how hard it was to get some of them to approve a gun without a manual safety. The 1911 might be an argument all of it's own, but what about guns like the Beretta 92?

 

When I was a young man, the cop friends I had were the ones who taught me to disengage the safety as I was drawing. But I know we have some folks around here who served more recently, so I am wondering if that's changed.

Back in the early '90's, several of the local PD's went to carrying 3rd generation Smith bottom feeders. Two went to the 4006 and the third went to the 4506. My primary carry gun at the time was also a 4006, so I asked a few LEOs I knew about how they carried theirs.

 

All three departments were training their officers to carry the guns hammer down (Smith safeties acted as a decocker as well) with the safety OFF.

[Bad Hand]

When our depart went to autoloaders, they chose the S&W 4586, a DAO .45 Cal.