1911 and 1911A1 guns

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

Not interested in Wild Bunch but thinking about a 1911 or 1911A1. I know there are a lot of manufacturers and importers of these guns. Which are closest to original military issue configuration pistols in your experience.

Thanks,

Horace

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Sir

 

that would depend on the year of Mfg. issue , and if it has been back to rebuild , while there being upgraded to A1 specs .

 

the fast visiual check , is the finger relieaf cuts to the frame behind the trigger , that would make it an A1

 

I do not have a book close to look up the date as to when the A1 mod was done

 

Chickasaw Bill

[Lankyframe #44046]

Springfield GI model for one

[Lankyframe #44046]

That would be the 1911A1

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

There's always the M1991A1...

...and it's a genuine COLT...I had heard that the serial #'s on these guns picked up from the #'s used on the Colt models from WWII.

 

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=371172

GG~

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

RIA.

As close to the Original Colt as you can get.

And its a true 70 series gun .

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Colts WW1 re-issue for 1911. $$$$$

 

For just a 1911A1 shooter check out Sarco. They have been selling some Brazilian contract guns dirt cheap. These were made by Colt in Hartford, and sold to the Buenos Aires Police. Don't confuse these with the Ballester Molina's.

 

They have 3 grades, $499, $599 and $699. Here is a link to the highest grade.

 

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/colt1911a11930original-bestgrade.aspx

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

The current Springfield's are not close to the originals due to their ILS (Internal Lock System) which is an alteration to the mainspring housing. Everything else on the gun is OK.

 

I agree the WWI Colt is the closest to the original.

 

A Norinco 1911A1 is a direct copy, but no longer imported to the US (OK in Canada though).

 

The lower price guns (Rock Island, etc.) are usually exact copies of the 1911A1. The higher you go up the price chain, the more improvements (aka changes) from the originals.

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

Thanks, guys. I will check these out. Very interested in the Sarco guns.

Horace

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

RIA.

As close to the Original Colt as you can get.

And its a true 70 series gun .

Sure is close to the ones I carried from 1957 to1978, except for the markings...and it's a very fine gun.

[Throckmorton,23149]

I have a Norinco a1,and they are rock solid and very reliable.If u can find one that someone will turn loose of,but it ,you'll like it.They have quite a cult following these days.Too bad they are banned,they make some real good looking guns.

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Here's a Norinco for sale locally. It says trade pending on 9/10, but maybe it fell through. Wouldn't hurt to try.

 

http://www.texashuntingforum.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/4556533/Searchpage/1/Main/374130/Words/norinco/Search/true/Re_Norinco_1911#Post4556533

 

By the way, Goatneck was shooting one of the Sarco guns last Saturday at the WB match in Cleburne. You know how he is about guns!

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

Colts WW1 re-issue for 1911. $$$$$

 

For just a 1911A1 shooter check out Sarco. They have been selling some Brazilian contract guns dirt cheap. These were made by Colt in Hartford, and sold to the Buenos Aires Police. Don't confuse these with the Ballester Molina's.

 

They have 3 grades, $499, $599 and $699. Here is a link to the highest grade.

 

http://www.e-sarcoinc.com/colt1911a11930original-bestgrade.aspx

Not all of the 1911's from Argentina are made by Colt. The vast majority of them are made in Argentina.

BTW they where 1927 commercial model not 1933 as listed in the ad.

Also a 1927 commerical Colt is bringing way more than what they have it listed for.

 

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=68064

 

"In 1914, the Argentine military adopted the Colt M1911 as their standard military sidearm and contracted with Colt to supply these guns. Argentina took shipment of 2,151 of these weapons between 1914 and 1919. Among them were the following: 321 pistols received in 1914 marked MARINA ARGENTINA (Argentina Navy), S/N C6201 – C6400 and C11501 – C11621; 1000 received in 1916, S/N C20001 – C21000; 400 received in 1919 within the S/N range of C86790 – C116594.

These pistols went through two different channels. The battleships that were being made in the USA for Argentina received the Navy pistols directly. Pistols delivered to Argentina went through the London Armoury Company.

The 1,000 pistols received in 1915 were marked with Argentine crests and property numbers 1 to 1,000 on the tops of the slides. These pistols were designated "Pistola Colt Modelo Argentino 1916.â€

 

THE 1927 CONTRACT

 

In 1923, Argentina adopted an armaments bill that would eliminate Argentine dependency on foreign arms. Under this bill, the Argentine Congress authorized appropriations for a military modernization program and prepared the infrastructure for a domestic arms industry. In accordance with the new law, an aircraft factory was established in 1927, a munitions factory in 1933, a small steel mill in 1934, and a small arms factory in 1936, all of which were managed by Argentine army officers.

 

In 1927, the Argentine Commission for Foreign Acquisitions negotiated a contract with Colt for the manufacture of M1911A1 .45 caliber self-loading pistols specially marked and serial numbered in a separate series, and secured a licensing agreement giving the Argentine government the right to manufacture these pistols.

 

The agreement specified: 1) that Colt would manufacture 10,000 Colt automatic pistols, caliber .45, “Ejercito Argentino Modelo 1927,†for the Argentine Army; 2) that the complete knowledge base for future production of the pistols in Argentina, including drawings, manufacturing instructions, material specifications, tool requirements, etc., would be transferred to Argentine control; and 3) that Argentine technicians would be trained in manufacturing operations and inspection.

 

THE 1927 HARTFORD ARGENTINE ARMY MODELS

 

The 10,000 Hartford Colts made for Agentina prior to production of Sistemas were delivered from 1927 to 1933, serial #’s 1-10,000." The production period was from July 28, 1927 to February 16, 1928. Serial numbers were stamped in Colt’s italic numbers on top of the slides, under the mainspring housing, and (usually) on top of the barrel. "

[Goody, SASS #26190]

Not all of the 1911's from Argentina are made by Colt. The vast majority of them are made in Argentina.

BTW they where 1927 commercial model not 1933 as listed in the ad.

Also a 1927 commerical Colt is bringing way more than what they have it listed for.

 

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=68064

 

"In 1914, the Argentine military adopted the Colt M1911 as their standard military sidearm and contracted with Colt to supply these guns. Argentina took shipment of 2,151 of these weapons between 1914 and 1919. Among them were the following: 321 pistols received in 1914 marked MARINA ARGENTINA (Argentina Navy), S/N C6201 – C6400 and C11501 – C11621; 1000 received in 1916, S/N C20001 – C21000; 400 received in 1919 within the S/N range of C86790 – C116594.

These pistols went through two different channels. The battleships that were being made in the USA for Argentina received the Navy pistols directly. Pistols delivered to Argentina went through the London Armoury Company.

The 1,000 pistols received in 1915 were marked with Argentine crests and property numbers 1 to 1,000 on the tops of the slides. These pistols were designated "Pistola Colt Modelo Argentino 1916.â€

 

THE 1927 CONTRACT

 

In 1923, Argentina adopted an armaments bill that would eliminate Argentine dependency on foreign arms. Under this bill, the Argentine Congress authorized appropriations for a military modernization program and prepared the infrastructure for a domestic arms industry. In accordance with the new law, an aircraft factory was established in 1927, a munitions factory in 1933, a small steel mill in 1934, and a small arms factory in 1936, all of which were managed by Argentine army officers.

 

In 1927, the Argentine Commission for Foreign Acquisitions negotiated a contract with Colt for the manufacture of M1911A1 .45 caliber self-loading pistols specially marked and serial numbered in a separate series, and secured a licensing agreement giving the Argentine government the right to manufacture these pistols.

 

The agreement specified: 1) that Colt would manufacture 10,000 Colt automatic pistols, caliber .45, “Ejercito Argentino Modelo 1927,†for the Argentine Army; 2) that the complete knowledge base for future production of the pistols in Argentina, including drawings, manufacturing instructions, material specifications, tool requirements, etc., would be transferred to Argentine control; and 3) that Argentine technicians would be trained in manufacturing operations and inspection.

 

THE 1927 HARTFORD ARGENTINE ARMY MODELS

 

The 10,000 Hartford Colts made for Agentina prior to production of Sistemas were delivered from 1927 to 1933, serial #’s 1-10,000." The production period was from July 28, 1927 to February 16, 1928. Serial numbers were stamped in Colt’s italic numbers on top of the slides, under the mainspring housing, and (usually) on top of the barrel. "

 

Well, I hate to quibble over minutia, but a little more research shows that the Government Contact and the Police contract were seperate purchases.

 

"A batch of 5,320 Hartford Colts were made in 1933 and issued to the Buenos

Aires Police Department, and are known as the “Policia de la Capital” pistols.

The first order was placed that year through a private arms dealer. Police

pistols show the fit and finish typical of pre-war Colts, and are blued with

commercial markings. The police pistols are serial numbered within the C165000

through C171000 range.

 

The right sides of the slides are marked with the

normal Colt writing and logo. The left sides are marked POLICIA DE LA CAPITAL.

On the right sides of the frames is marked, “Government Model” over the serial

numbers. The tops of the slides are marked with property numbers, 1 – 5,320.

 

If you go to this site you will see that these serial numbers fall in the 1933 range.

 

http://proofhouse.com/colt/

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

 

Well, I hate to quibble over minutia, but a little more research shows that the Government Contact and the Police contract were seperate purchases.

http://proofhouse.com/colt/

Very cool info. I had never heard of the police contract being separate.

[Black Angus McPherson]

RIA.

As close to the Original Colt as you can get.

And its a true 70 series gun .

"RIA"? Is that a brand name or initials for a brand name. If initials, what do they stand for? I don't think I've ever heard of it.

 

Thanks.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

"RIA"? Is that a brand name or initials for a brand name. If initials, what do they stand for? I don't think I've ever heard of it.

 

Thanks.

Rock Island Armory ~ ARSMCOR https://us.armscor.com/products/1911-standard-gi

 

GG ~

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

Sure is close to the ones I carried from 1957 to1978, except for the markings...and it's a very fine gun.

Yes ,They are very good guns.

I had one for a long time .

 

Then I got my Grand Dads Remington Rand 1911A1 and I love it.

 

Thank you for your service .

God bless.

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

While no exactly a perfect copy the very limited number of 1911 copies made by US Firearms were the closest modern clones. They are rare and EXPENSIVE. But I can't help but wonder why you would want a close copy of an early 1911/A1 when the newer models are more ergonomic with better sights, nicer safeties, etc.etc.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

While no exactly a perfect copy the very limited number of 1911 copies made by US Firearms were the closest modern clones. They are rare and EXPENSIVE. But I can't help but wonder why you would want a close copy of an early 1911/A1 when the newer models are more ergonomic with better sights, nicer safeties, etc.etc.

Guess the same could be said with rifles and shotfuns... folks just like 'em. Nostalgia can be a nice reason too.

 

GG

[Horace Patootie, SASS #35798]

While no exactly a perfect copy the very limited number of 1911 copies made by US Firearms were the closest modern clones. They are rare and EXPENSIVE. But I can't help but wonder why you would want a close copy of an early 1911/A1 when the newer models are more ergonomic with better sights, nicer safeties, etc.etc.

My uncle was in Japan with the occupation after the war. I also have a friend who was trained as a pilot in the Japanese Air forces. I have a Japanese NCO sword, a T14 Nambu pistol, a picture of my friend standing in front of his plane. I have my uncles knife that he made in the service and would like to have a 1911 or 1911A1 which is close to an issued pistol of the era. So the more modern improvements to the 1911 guns are not what I'm looking for. Last year, as a project, I recreated an IKE jacket and hat from a slightly later original to be exactly like his that he no longer has. All of the ribbons, devices, patches, service bars etc. are correct. I spent probably several months on that jacket.

Horace

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Sir

 

If I read correctley what you posted , time frame is late 1945 , into 1946 , the proper pistol would be a 1911a1 .

 

The Rock Island Arsonal , (Armscor) , would be very close to the correct config . for your porpse

 

They tend to shoot pretty well , as does the Ninrico , also the proper config ,

 

the front sight , will be small ,

 

Hope , this is of some help on your project

 

Chickasaw Bill

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Rock Island Armory ~ ARSMCOR https://us.armscor.com/products/1911-standard-gi

 

GG ~

That pistol would surely look better without the billboard on the left side of the slide.

[Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138]

Why not just buy a "real" one?

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

That pistol would surely look better without the billboard on the left side of the slide.

 

Yup....other side looks great.

 

GG ~

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Also, look at Auto Ordnance/Thompson. They have a very close copy to the 1911A1 and they are made in America.Very good quality.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Also, look at Auto Ordnance/Thompson. They have a very close copy to the 1911A1 and they are made in America.Very good quality.

 

Nice piece indeed! http://www.auto-ordnance.com/Firearms/Auto-Ordnance-1911PKZSEWMA.asp

 

GG ~

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Colt WWI re issue

Colt has had 3 different versions of the WWI 1911 in the last few years including the

100th year anniversary of the 1911 edition .Check Gunbroker..they are available

All of the series 70 Colt 1911's are nearly identical to the original 1911 issue

 

The 1911 A1 was introduced in the 1930's primarily for the military

The main difference is the arched mainspring housing

 

[Black Angus McPherson]

Rock Island Armory ~ ARSMCOR https://us.armscor.com/products/1911-standard-gi

 

GG ~

DUH! I should've known. I kept thinking of the Remington and was trying to make it into something like "Remington 1A".

 

As mentioned elsewhere above, I like the look of the Remington other than the aptly described "billboard" on the side. Yuck.

 

Thanks

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

RIA.

As close to the Original Colt as you can get.

And its a true 70 series gun .

 

Nope, you can get a lot closer to an Original Colt than Armscorp, and lots better quality if that matters to you.

 

Colt has been producing "Series 70" new guns for several years.

http://www.coltsmfg.com/Catalog/ColtPistols/ColtSeries70%E2%84%A2.aspx

 

And a review in American Rifleman:

http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/colt-series-70-model-1911/

 

(article is pretty good, except for author calling it a 1911 instead of a 1911A1 with series 70 mods)

 

In fact, it's a little better in some respects - no longer do they use the collet barrel bushing, all of them come with stainless barrels, better sights than the original Series 70 production (and the RIA Armscorps guns), and a few other tweaks.

 

Has demonstrated track record of holding its value over the years, even with moderate use, where the RIA will depreciate pretty quickly (just a shooter).

 

Good luck, GJ

[Pill Roller, SASS #77160]

I like the auto ordnance for my regular shooters very close to real ones

I have several 1911a1as well as 1911s and Argentin models

The AOs look and handle the same

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

My Rock I got several years back does not have the billboard on the side. Great reliable gun. Love that gun.

 

My AO made by Kahr is also a great reliable gun. Love that gun.

 

My Norinco is in the shop. Got it used and it needed a little love. Love that gun.

 

But my R1 is my fave. VERY reliable and very accurate. I mean very very accurate. Love that gun.

 

SR1911 tops the wish list. I love all 1911s.

[pecos steve]

I currently have a Kimber Super Match 1 which is suppose to very accurate and it is!

 

But I also have a Springfield Mil Spec Stainless and it is very accurate as well and seems to function with any ammo I use.

 

For the money I don't see how you can be a Springfield Mil Spec.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

The only things I did to my Rock Island was to dump those really ugly smooth grips and put a set of Sarco Double Diamond wood grips on it, and clean the bejabbers out of it and lube it with Frog Lube.

 

Oh yeah, and I got rid of the magazine (suckered Curly Cole into taking it for his Springfield) and got Chip McCormick (sp?) after-market mags.

 

First time I took it out another guy had a Kimber .45 (at better than twice the cost of mine) that was also brand new. My Rock Island ran flawlessly through the two boxes of ammo I had with me. The Kimber locked up tight on about the 20th round and had to go back to the dealer for repairs.