Longhorn Jack Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I am just getting into CAS and SASS and I haven't had a chance to look into the rules yet but I feel am looking for some info on bullet type and weight and charge weights for .45 colt that are legal and safe for SASS. Thanks for any info in advance. LJ ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Pepper Kid, SASS #60463 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I think there is a rule or something that we can't list specific load data on this forum. I shoot 200gr and Clay's powder(near the lower end of Clays recommended load data). I also load up some 250gr for my Marlin to cut down on blow back. I don't shoot my Marlin much since I'm in Classic Cowboy and have a 73. I use the same amt of powder in both loads. CPK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Bisley Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 · Hidden by Black Harris #154, March 5, 2013 - No reason given Hidden by Black Harris #154, March 5, 2013 - No reason given LJ, We're not allowed to publish any load info on the wire If you are going to use smokeless powder, get yourself a reloading manual like the Lee Modern Reloading If you're are going to allow us to lure you to the darkside... Black powder and substitutes load by volume. That is to say that a full load is going to fill the case with enough powder to only allow enough space left to seat the bullet and slightly compress the powder Ultimately, you're going to work out a load recipe that works best for yourself and your guns I use American Pioneer Powder, a BP substitute. It works well for me I use a reduced power load. With BP and subs, that is accomplished by using a material like grits, cream of wheat, or corn meal to be placed in the case after the desired amount of BP is placed in the case. The combined amount of powder and filler then leaves enough space left to seat the bullet and slightly compress the powder I too use a 200gr RNFP for my bullets. I started using 250gr but worked out a recipe using 200gr as they were a little cheaper. The reduced powder load using filler gives me more mpg on powder too Link to comment
Russ T. Sites Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I use 200gr rnfp with trail boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTIN FOX Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 The IMR website has the data you need. I use 200 gr RNFP with trailboss. Middle od the chart loads with no blowback in the Marlin. Fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Jack Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Great thanks for the info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dakota Doc Martin, SASS #21774 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I am just getting into CAS and SASS and I haven't had a chance to look into the rules yet... Reading the rule book would be a good start: http://www.sassnet.com/Shooters-Handbook-001A.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 I haven't entirely settled on specific bullets, but have used loads for 180 & 200 RNFP on .45 Colt cases with a preference for the heavier bullet in the rifle. I also use a Schofield case for the pistols, believing they are more efficient as compared with the Colt case. In these, a 180 gr bullet has less felt recoil. After using up the W231 I had on hand, I've since switched to W Superlite (no longer made). Much of my variety has to do with cost and availability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 when I do shoot smokeless ammo(very rare) I use clays powder with a 200 grn. bullet, and like Go I use schofield brass for my pistol;s. Just starting out a good source for reloading is http://www.reloadammo.com/ I always refer back to this when I'm starting out a new load. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Jack Posted March 3, 2013 Author Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks pards I reload and use the hornady bible but I wasn't to sure on the CAS loads I have 200gr rnfp and was looking into trailboss. I was just looking for a good place to start charge wise. Guess I'll start with the low end of the chart. What is the difference between schfield and .45 brass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ T. Sites Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks pards I reload and use the hornady bible but I wasn't to sure on the CAS loads I have 200gr rnfp and was looking into trailboss. I was just looking for a good place to start charge wise. Guess I'll start with the low end of the chart. What is the difference between schfield and .45 brass? Scholfield was used in a s&w and is a little shorter than 45lc works great for single loading over the top on 66 and 73 rifles . I've heard some use in the pistol. I think trailboss is a great to use for 45lc and cas, it's designed for cases that will not be full and it's real easy to tell if you put two charges in by mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafe Conager SASS #56958 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Schofields was smith and wessons kind of an FU to Colt, the military wanted a new type pistol that was easier to reload on horse back, and Maj. Schofield helped modify the .44 S&W russian to fit the bill, the Govt. wanted it in .45 but S&W did not want .45 colt in their pistol so they shortened the .45 round and made the .45 S&W schofiled round, the round is a little thicker and is great for downloading, it works fine in pistols but most rifles are finicky since the OAL leads to double feeding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.45_Schofield explains it better. Rafe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 From what I recall from my reading on the 45 Schofield, it wasn't so much that Smith did not want the 45 Colt round in their pistol. Their cylinder was not long enuff to accept the Colt round. The army wanted them to re-tool and lengthen the cylinder but they were loathe to do so as they were selling tons of their revolvers in 44 Russian to the czar. This turned around and bit them when the Russians failed to make payment on a whole bunch of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Jack - pick your bullet weight - buy some and go to the various vendor's loading tables and choose the velocity you want. They are all SASS legal, safe and meet the SASS Powder Factor requirement. The decision you have to make is a minimum - in between or maximum velocity reload BTW, every load data will put a bullet accurately on the targets with the distances we shoot at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Thanks pards I reload and use the hornady bible but I wasn't to sure on the CAS loads I have 200gr rnfp and was looking into trailboss. I was just looking for a good place to start charge wise. Guess I'll start with the low end of the chart. What is the difference between schfield and .45 brass?The Schofield case (officially, .45 Revolver Ball in the nomenclature of the Army)is approximately 0.100" shorter than the .45 Colt's Revolver cartridge (nowadays usually referred to as .45 Long Colt or .45LC for short). Originally, the .45 Colt's cartridge was loaded with 40 gr. of black powder behind a 250-255 grain conoidal cylindrical bullet. This load proved too hot, as several burst cylinders occurred in the early Colt's Single Action Army revolvers (aka the "strap" pistol for its solid frame). Recoil was also a problem for the smaller cavalry troopers. The load was cut to 30 gr. of powder. But the Colt's SAA was slow to reload, due to having to eject each round separately. Smith & Wesson adapted the latch modification proposed by Maj. John Schofield to their #3 large frame breaktop revolver, which the Army accepted as a alternate standard revolver. Now what follows I cannot prove, but the breaktop guns are not quite as strong as the solid frame Colt's. IMHO, S&W proposed, and the Army accepted that the Schofield have its cylinder shortened by 0.10", with a corresponding shortening of the cartridge. They extended the forcing cone back to meet the shortened cylinder. (Uberti lengthened the cylinder to take the .45 Colt's round, which is not a problem with modern steel. Smith & Wesson OTOH shortened the frame of their S&W 2000, probably to prevent anyone from shooting longer cartridges in their guns.) The .45 Revolver Ball cartridge finally was loaded with 28 gr. of BP, and the bullet lightened to 230 grains. But logistics problems with the two different rounds, especially if troops armed with the S&W received, as happened, Colt's rounds, which didn't fit their guns, prompted the Army to issue only the shorter round to all cavalry troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Schofield brass+Black powder+ any bullet you pick=FUN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Bisley Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Schofield brass+Black powder+ any bullet you pick=FUN I posted (nothing technical) about BP and subs earlier today in this thread and my post was deleted Evidently a moderator has something against BP and subs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diablo slim Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 That seems strange Buck.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 re: Trail Boss. Low end loads suck ! don't load very many because you won't like them ! I also use 200 grain rnfp cast bullets,and med load of TB ,or Clays. Attempts to load the 45colt on the very low end for less recoil usually just end up smoking the cases real bad,and giving vvery lackluster performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Jack Posted March 4, 2013 Author Share Posted March 4, 2013 Great info. Especially on the trailboss because as of right now around here trailboss is pretty available. While most other powders are few and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Presidio Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Can't go wrong with a full case of 3f Goex and a 250 RNFP. Best skeeter fogger thar' be! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ T. Sites Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 Great info. Especially on the trailboss because as of right now around here trailboss is pretty available. While most other powders are few and far between. Give it a try I use it with a 200gr bullet and low side of the published loads , ive used it from 40 to 90 degrees haven't had any troubles and can get good groupings at cas distances Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 You can load everything SASS with Unique. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Fiddler SASS Life 10127 Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 My wife and I use 200 RNFP with Clays in rifle and pistol. It may not be the best choice if you live where it's real cold. Send me a private email if you want the details on my load. joepro@proandsons.com -tex fiddler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Sights, SASS # 2782 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I use 700X powder and 250 gr RNFP bullets and use the same load for both rifle and pistols. Some time ago, I tried the 200 gr RNFP and found it cut my groups in my rifle by 50%. In my pistols, they shot lower than the 250 gr bullets. I decided to go back to the 250 gr bullet as the accuracy in the rifle was acceptable and that was what my pistol sights were regulated to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 What is the difference between schfield and .45 brass? About .185" in case length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Southpaw Gringo, SASS # 74217 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 My load casts another vote for Trailboss powder. My pill is a 205 grn Bear Creek bullet. Same load for rifles and pistolas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene Slim SASS 81783 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Thanks pards I reload and use the hornady bible but I wasn't to sure on the CAS loads I have 200gr rnfp and was looking into trailboss. I was just looking for a good place to start charge wise. Guess I'll start with the low end of the chart. What is the difference between schfield and .45 brass? Howdy Jack. TB is great for .45 Colt. You can load it at the lower end for your pistols, but I suggest mid-range and above for your rifle. More powder means less blow-back. That big, thick, straight wall case wasn't designed to be loaded at the bottom end and doesn't expand much to seal the chamber at low pressures. If you must, a bulky powder like TB is the way to go. A heavier bullet in your rifle like 230-250 gr is even better for reducing blow-back. As others have said, the Schofield is a shorter case that the Colt and is a fine case. Additionally, it has a larger diameter rim than the Colt so that plus the shorter OAL means your rifle may not like it. My '92 Rossi does not. And depending on your loading equipment, you may find you'll need a different shell holder/plate and dies. My Hornady dies are fine with it, but my RCBS won't go low enough to crimp the case. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Colt wanted $5 a gun from S&W as a royality if the chambered them for .45colts ..... Reminton lost in court when they brought out a few guns chambered in .45 colts ,,,,,, That stopped them cold .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 You can load everything SASS with Unique. LG And Red Dot, too. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 45 special / cowboy length brass works great with TB and 160 Gr bullet weight, pistol load that is even More efficient then schofield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longhorn Jack Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 Thanks pards lots of info to consider I picked up a bottle of trail boss to try but I do have some unique and some red dot guess I'll just go on a loading spree and then a triple click, bang, and clang spree to see which I like the best Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 250 grain bullet Remington 2 1/2 large primers. Titegroup powder 1 grain below manufactor's maximum recommendation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hoss Carpenter, SASS Life 7843 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 For the longest time I shot a 250 gr bullet with some Bullseye; then a friend gave me 2000 rounds of 200 grain 45s and now I shoot them with a litlle more Bullseye. Works for me in both revolvers and rifle. Hoss Carpenter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Yes, the Schofield head is a smidge wider than the .45 Colt case. Not an issue on my Dillon or in my pistols. Some folks have said it interferes with the ratchet on their particular gun cylinder. I have used a Schofield case to top off my 73, but my 92s do not accept them (port, cartridge guides, or the recessed bolt face). The .45 Cowboy was another alternative, but the business by Adirondack Jack closed in Dec 2012. Unless someone buys the business, rights, or whatever, this concept is shelved. The rifle loads work best with a heavier bullet as far as chamber sealing and cleaner brass goes, but lower bullet weights are cheaper, work well enough and can get polished in a tumbler. An example of cost from S&S Casting: 250 gr RNFP- $102/1,000 vs 200 gr RNFP- $85/1,000, vs 180 gr RNFP-$82/1,000. For me, there is enough savings on the 200 gr bullets to use those in rifles. I would suggest you load enough to test, but not too many without testing. I once ran about a 1,000 .45 Colt loads that were a smidge too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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