Longshadow, SASS #70099 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Add two murdered firefighters to the long string of slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners who leave their weapons lying around the house like so many kitchen utensils. Society has changed. The "rifle above the fireplace" days are gone forever. If you're not wearing it, LOCK IT UP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manatee Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 x wrong thread x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MARSHAL W.E. BGood SASS 18429 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Did I miss something...the offender was a convicted felon, served "a term" for beating to death his grandmother (why was he even out?), how'd he get the guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Add two murdered firefighters to the long string of slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners who leave their weapons lying around the house like so many kitchen utensils. Society has changed. The "rifle above the fireplace" days are gone forever. If you're not wearing it, LOCK IT UP! Guess you missed the part about him being a FELON..... LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Add two murdered firefighters to the long string of slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners who leave their weapons lying around the house like so many kitchen utensils. Society has changed. The "rifle above the fireplace" days are gone forever. If you're not wearing it, LOCK IT UP! I'm going to bite my tongue and not call you all the names that instantly popped into my head when I read this. But I AM going to ask that you sit down, take a deep breath and think about which side of this debate you're on. No "idiot gun owner" broke into someone else's house. No "idiot gun owner" stole someone else's property. No "idiot gun owner" planned the act of arson. No "idiot gun owner" planned the act of pre-meditated murder by ambushing first responders. And no "idiot gun owner" carried out that horrific act. Comments like yours are exactly the type of stupidity we're fighting AGAINST. Again, please think about which side of this debate you're on. Then please get back to us with your decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 How do we know that these guns weren't locked up or stored safely. How do we know that the Felon didn't threaten bodily harm if they weren't allowed access to those guns? Both owners are dead and can't testify yet we accuse, sentence and condemn them for acts that we really can't prove. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Maybe Phantom's post, on another thread, about some SASS members being stupid isn't far off the mark :wacko:/> GG ~ :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I don't believe that calling other members "stupid" or any other insulting names, serves ANY purpose here, regardless of what you think of their remarks. I'd like to see it stop. If anyone here believe that the answer to the attacks on our ideology, politics, culture, believes and morality is to cannibalize your own kind, then I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself. ....... Stop it now! Longshadow, regarding this topic, I just don't agree with your comments. My belief is that guns should be proliferate and common in society; hanging over the fireplace or wherever you wish to keep them. And, no, it shouldn't be illegal to do so. It is not my responsibility to stop other people from commiting foolish or criminal acts. I believe that gun safety and shooting skills should be taught to children beginning in the sixth grade. I also think that those who commit attrocities like this one should be fast-tracked to a firing squad or a rope, NOT decades in prison with pretty-boy celebreties whining about how they weren't fairly treated, book deals and gettin' religion before, finally, a clinical, easy, chemical end. Do you REALLY believe that all these cowards who commit these atrocities actually commit suicide at the rates we are seeing? Please! The only real thing that has changed in this country is that big government has become a virtually unstoppable force, attempting to completely control every aspect of our lives and the only thing in the way are a large population unwilling to accept that. Once they have your guns, the game is over and they'll be sending your neighbors to get them. Think about THAT instead. Sitting around whining now ain't gettin the job done. If you are not part of the solution, by becoming politically active, then (as they say) you are part of the problem. I'm not changing my beliefs, but you are entitled to your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 I don't believe that calling other members "stupid" or any other insulting names, serves ANY purpose here, regardless of what you think of their remarks. I'd like to see it stop. If anyone here believe that the answer to the attacks on our ideology, politics, culture, believes and morality is to cannibalize your own kind, then I think you need to take a long hard look at yourself. ....... Stop it now! .... "slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners" is a stupid comment.... as far as stupid comments - hey, we all have made 'em...and at times get called out on it. GG ~ :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Don't kniow yet how the perps got the guns. But I'm betting theyr were not secured in a good safe. I'm afraid that the casual American gunowner, not serious safety-concious firearms afficianados like us, just doesn't take adequate measures to properly secure their guns. I've know people like this my whole life. I think it's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshadow, SASS #70099 Posted December 27, 2012 Author Share Posted December 27, 2012 .... "slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners" is a stupid comment.... as far as stupid comments - hey, we all have made 'em...and at times get called out on it. GG ~ :FlagAm:/>/> The Difference between me and those who don't like my remarks is that I have almost certainly lived, worked and attempted to collect and shoot guns in more parts of the world than most. I managed to save just two guns from my family's valuable collection in England by getting on a plane two days before the ban and taking them to another country. Within a matter of days the rest were just a pile of iron filings. I saw the same thing happen in South Africa. It was my day to be the allowed witness to the police destruction of family heirlooms. Most had been turned in by elderly folk, rather than go through days of intensive verbal, written and practical tests required by new laws to keep them. The destruction included a boxed set of two magnificent Purdey shotguns. When I commented that these, along with many others destroyed that day, could have been auctioned to the benefit of police charities, I was laughed at. As a gunowner I have suffered the indignity of home inspections, fingerprinting, two year wait periods, and every possible discouragement. Stuff that makes Feinstein's revised proposals look mild. I wish no disrespect to American gunowners. I am now one myself. But things have been so good for so long here that folks are not seeing the writing on the wall. The point I made was not that "idiot gunowners" committed the crimes. I do not undersand the remark that I didn't seem to know the perpetrators were felons. Of course they were! That's why they used other peoples's guns. It is simply that the registered owners of these guns failed to accept the responsibility that accompanies such ownership. They did so by making it easy for idiots to access them. This in and of itself shows a lack of respect for guns, and much worse - for the safety of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 OK Longshadow....sounds fine...we all have our experiences. But your wording in your OP was wrong IMHO....and opinions ( mine included) are like...well.. Ne' er mind. Happy New Year...to you and yours. I practice keeping guns in the safe simply because I live in a neighborhood. If I lived on a mountain away from folks my gun would probably be over my fireplace GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 OK Longshadow....sounds fine...we all have our experiences. But your wording in your OP was wrong IMHO....and opinions ( mine included) are like...well.. Ne' er mind. Happy New Year...to you and yours. I practice keeping guns in the safe simply because I live in a neighborhood. If I lived on a mountain away from folks my gun would probably be over my fireplace GG I agree with you,the OP saying the innocent victims deaths were caused by gun owners was a poor choice of words, at best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Add two murdered firefighters to the long string of slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners who leave their weapons lying around the house like so many kitchen utensils. Society has changed. The "rifle above the fireplace" days are gone forever. If you're not wearing it, LOCK IT UP! I need to point out a few things to you; - Stealing anothers property is STILL against the law. Not disagreeing with locking up your guns, but whatever is in my house/dwelling is my property. Do I need to lock up my tv, computor, medications, jewelry, spare change, etc, ect.? If some a$$hole breaks into my house, does that automatically absolve his theft of my belongings? I guess that make me complicit in his illegal plans. - Arson is STILL against the law.....oops, did I leave my matches out? - Murder is STILL against the law. Doesn't matter the manner of murder, it's still murder. I don't care how many countries you've saved guns from, we don't live in those countries. The US has a set of laws that were installed so that we could become the United States, free from despot and king rule. You do have one thing right....kitchen utensils and guns are just that, utensils. Knives, forks and spoons are quite a bit like guns. They are nothing but a tool......unless in the wrong hands. Thing again, so are most household items. Simple matter really, it doesn't matter what the tool. The person that commits the crime is the criminal, not the tool(s) used. CS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairtrigger Hayes Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Looks to me that if my guns are in my house that is secure enough. If they are stolen, the perpetrator should be jailed. If a murder or violent crime is committed with them he should then be hung just like in the old days on a gallows with plenty of spectators saying "Son if you get on the wrong side of the law that could happen to you." But, for argument's sake, what if someone broke in and stole prescription drugs and used them to commit murder? Should I now consider putting a lock on the medicine cabinet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I think I get Longshadows point. After all, we lock up our cars and never leave them with the keys still in the ignition. We know the thiefs are out there so we take appropriate precautions. Same is true about keeping a safe or lockable enclosure in the house for the same reason. Admit it or not.....most gun safes are purchased to insure a thief doesn't carry away some of our most valuable posessions.....our Guns. Diamonds and watches and cameras are easily replaced. Our guns are very personal and often very hard to replace. A couple sets of my Rugers have custom features and I would hate to spend the next year or two trying to replace them. I would say the 2nd reason a gun safe is purchased is to protect them against fire. That being stated, I still love the look of a good old shotgun or beautiful rifle hanging above the fireplace mantel. Happy New Year to everyone and Y'all try to keep a good thought! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red River Ray SASS#33254 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Looks to me that if my guns are in my house that is secure enough. If they are stolen, the perpetrator should be jailed. If a murder or violent crime is committed with them he should then be hung just like in the old days on a gallows with plenty of spectators saying "Son if you get on the wrong side of the law that could happen to you." But, for argument's sake, what if someone broke in and stole prescription drugs and used them to commit murder? Should I now consider putting a lock on the medicine cabinet? Amen!!!!! RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I have guns all around the house some day if an idiot criminal enters who knows what will happen if some think that I::: have to lock up the guns then I better lock up my knifes my confederete sword the mauser bayonte on the wall & my pencels on my desk, cuz that can kill-when in the right hands geeeese mileage always varies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I think I get Longshadows point. After all, we lock up our cars and never leave them with the keys still in the ignition. We know the thiefs are out there so we take appropriate precautions. Same is true about keeping a safe or lockable enclosure in the house for the same reason. Admit it or not.....most gun safes are purchased to insure a thief doesn't carry away some of our most valuable posessions.....our Guns. Diamonds and watches and cameras are easily replaced. Our guns are very personal and often very hard to replace. A couple sets of my Rugers have custom features and I would hate to spend the next year or two trying to replace them. I would say the 2nd reason a gun safe is purchased is to protect them against fire. That being stated, I still love the look of a good old shotgun or beautiful rifle hanging above the fireplace mantel. Happy New Year to everyone and Y'all try to keep a good thought! ..........Widder Oh I understand his point too, but I COMPLETELY disagree with it. To use the Madd one's line, how far down this slippery slope are we going to go. When MY guns are in MY house, they are secure. Why? Because they're MY guns and they're in MY house. Used to be people could leave thier houses unlocked without fear of being robbed. That was the norm. Then the norm was changed to where people got in the habit of locking their houses. Then the norm was changed again so people would keep their guns in a locked cabinet. Then the norm was changed AGAIN so people would keep their guns in a safe. That's so much the norm that if we don't do that we have our own people (Longshadow) calling us idiots and saying WE'RE the ones responsible for these horrific crimes. That's utter and complete CRAP!!! I refuse to travel any further down this slope. It's time we got back to placing the blame where it belongs, on the criminals, not on the victims. THAT should be the norm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Did I miss something...the offender was a convicted felon, served "a term" for beating to death his grandmother (why was he even out?), how'd he get the guns? Marshal, the best question being asked! And if everyone noticed, in all the newspaper articles and TV segments across the US ... this question has not been asked once nor has any of the media followed up to determine 'where the current system failed' that is supposed to prevent his kind from purchasing any firearms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Oh I understand his point too, but I COMPLETELY disagree with it. To use the Madd one's line, how far down this slippery slope are we going to go. When MY guns are in MY house, they are secure. Why? Because they're MY guns and they're in MY house. Used to be people could leave thier houses unlocked without fear of being robbed. That was the norm. Then the norm was changed to where people got in the habit of locking their houses. Then the norm was changed again so people would keep their guns in a locked cabinet. Then the norm was changed AGAIN so people would keep their guns in a safe. That's so much the norm that if we don't do that we have our own people (Longshadow) calling us idiots and saying WE'RE the ones responsible for these horrific crimes. That's utter and complete CRAP!!! I refuse to travel any further down this slope. It's time we got back to placing the blame where it belongs, on the criminals, not on the victims. THAT should be the norm. +1 KK Don't come in unless your asked too, or you might hear a sound you won't like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Oh I understand his point too, but I COMPLETELY disagree with it. To use the Madd one's line, how far down this slippery slope are we going to go. When MY guns are in MY house, they are secure. Why? Because they're MY guns and they're in MY house. It's time we got back to placing the blame where it belongs, on the criminals, not on the victims. THAT should be the norm. yah watt mr slim just said it is simple just enforce the laws we already have, or git rid of em we dont need new LaWs,, to ignore / or / cherry pick the enforcement of!.!. sincerly madd-0ne-mike how slippery can the slope git someday gun owners will be required to have their house alarmed on top of haveing safes jest in case they aint home when the REAL CRIMINAL shows up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Just in case a bad guy comes into MY house, MY guns are NOT locked up. The "solution" is relatively simple. Don't make people wonder if they can protect themselves...and make every bad guy wonder if they're about to enter a "protected zone." Beyond that, there are two things it would be nice if everyone understood: 1) There are no final solutions. Nothing we or anyone else can do will eliminate nuts from doing nutty stuff. Some people have been willing to sacrifice their life for nothing for a long time. Even today, people do it all the time in the other parts of the world where being less than civilized is considered more the norm. Our soldiers deal with it routinely. We have dealt with it numerous times, the most vivid being September 11, 2001. 2) There is no pacifying those who wish to take or otherwise control our guns. Most of them do not understand and will never understand unless they are successful in taking away our guns. Only then would they see that the bad guys will quickly come out of the woodwork. By then, it's too late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 The goblin bought the guns from a neighbor years ago. She is now in custody. Every goblin not on death row or sentenced to life without parole gets out. Most times way too soon. Even life without parole sometimes isn't. He actually did more time than most. Just the realities of our revolving door system of "justice". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Add two murdered firefighters to the long string of slaughtered innocents caused by idiot gunowners who leave their weapons lying around the house like so many kitchen utensils. Society has changed. The "rifle above the fireplace" days are gone forever. If you're not wearing it, LOCK IT UP! So much for your idiot gun owners thesis, turns out it was an illegal straw purchase that provided this felon with his guns, not a failure of gun owners to properly secure their weapons. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/29/new-york-woman-arrested-in-connection-with-murder-2-firefighters/?test=latestnews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 I for one don't like being considered an Idiot or called that for My belief that I should be able to control My property in any Lawfull mannor I deem fit .... Criminals Break laws !!! punish them !!! And I don't mean a slap on the Wrist .... Public Hanging comes to mind as a good way to end their activities And discourage others form the same pathways ... And yes up here WE are Forced to buy expensice safes to satisfy the Gun-grabers .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 This convicted felon killed his grandmother with a hammer, 19 years or so ago. As the news story goes, his second degree murder charge was plea bargained down to manslaughter, as was stated in the story, "to save the family from a nasty and public trial." He only served a couple of about 12 (from what I can gather) years behind bars for the manslaughter conviction. The parole board consistently denied him parole, as they did not think he was ready to return to society early. The second degree conviction would have put him away for much longer - probably life. Perhaps it is time we STOP allowing plea bargains just for the sake of the rest of the family, or to save time and money in the courts. The crime was committed, our legal and criminal systems were designed for a public trial and suitable punishment. We get these kinds of results if we don't permit the legal system to work as designed. Same games happen in many states with drunk drivers. The convicted drunk drivers are Felons in all the but legal sense of the word (because of slack enforcement), and they still have their driver's licenses and are right there amongst us every evening. This is much more a failure to administer justice than "idiots with guns." This is "idiots with briefcases and gavels." Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Very good thoughts here but now I will take them into the realm of my insanity! As a young child growing up, before every house had a tv, we nor our closest neighbors ever locked the house doors except at bedtime and when we were out and about we never locked the car doors. These things seemed to be the norm amongst the simple folks away from the big cities in those days, can not speak fer Atlanta (we thought of Atlanta as still occupied by the yankees anyway). In our area things seemed to noticeably start changing in the mid to late sixties. By the seventies CBS (the demoncratic version of pravda) had a good start on changing the way Americans think. Suddenly it was the individuals fault if little Billy Jr stole your car if you left it running while stepping inside the local 7/11, it was your fault if little Tommy Jr busted out yore windshield to steal a half pack of cigarettes. Not long after it became the individuals fault when someone invaded the former sanctity of the home, if the door wasnt locked. Now even the locked door concept is no longer valid for poor old John Q Public, if it is stolen now, it is poor Johns fault for not owning safes, advanced security systems, hidden cameras and one last item of preparation that we had better not overlook, steps to protect the safety of the home invader! Heaven forbid if the neighbors druggy son slips and falls while robbing your house, you just might be required to buy his drugs for the rest of his life. Personally I will go so far as to say that the mind set of the OP are far beyond wrong, they are a part of the cultural progressive insanity that has virtually destroyed this country. If there is something that needs to be locked up in this country now days it isnt the house or the car, it is nearly a whole generation of rotten Jrs and shame on us for forgetting that we were parents in our rush to be their best friends! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 So much for your idiot gun owners thesis, turns out it was an illegal straw purchase that provided this felon with his guns, not a failure of gun owners to properly secure their weapons. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/29/new-york-woman-arrested-in-connection-with-murder-2-firefighters/?test=latestnews Happy New Year... GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 . . . Used to be people could leave thier houses unlocked without fear of being robbed. That was the norm. Then the norm was changed to where people got in the habit of locking their houses. Then the norm was changed again so people would keep their guns in a locked cabinet. Then the norm was changed AGAIN so people would keep their guns in a safe. That's so much the norm that if we don't do that we have our own people (Longshadow) calling us idiots and saying WE'RE the ones responsible for these horrific crimes. That's utter and complete CRAP!!! I refuse to travel any further down this slope. It's time we got back to placing the blame where it belongs, on the criminals, not on the victims. THAT should be the norm. Philly Slim gave a great example of the slippery slope of blaming the victim versus the criminal. As he said, it used to be the criminal tthat was blamed for entering and steeling from the home - locked or not. The question is, "How is that working out for us?" Have the locks helped? Has crime been reduced? Look at the numbers, it has only gotten worse. We don't like the solutions because they are hard - having people raise their kids and give them rules. Letting parents (and schools) discipline their kids and raise them in a positive manner. Stop encouraging kids from becoming single parents. Encourage churches to encourage everyone. It will be very hard to reverse the trend started by well meaning but foolish liberals and radicals that have rejected what our country believed for well over 100 years. But merely doing more of what those same "liberal" (now fascist/communists) tell us to do will not work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 It will be very hard to reverse the trend started by well meaning but foolish liberals and radicals that have rejected what our country believed for well over 100 years. But merely doing more of what those same "liberal" (now fascist/communists) tell us to do will not work. I agree and will take it one maDD-0ne step further The Mayans RRRRRRR right The Mayans Never Predicted Doomsday Before we continue, it's worth emphasizing that this mesoamerican calendar (as used by several cultures -- including the Maya -- in Central and South America before European colonization) does not predict an apocalypse. It never did, despite what the movie "2012" told us. The Maya were highly skilled astronomers who kept meticulous records of the night sky. They documented the phases of the moon, recorded eclipses and even tracked the movement of Venus. In fact, the Venus cycle was an important calendar for the Maya. Their records enabled them to predict future astronomical cycles with great accuracy. They predicted the world would see change::: "Perhaps the degeneration of our morals and the pending results Are what they foresaw" But then again Maybe not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 Philly Slim gave a great example of the slippery slope of blaming the victim versus the criminal. As he said, it used to be the criminal tthat was blamed for entering and steeling from the home - locked or not. The question is, "How is that working out for us?" Have the locks helped? Has crime been reduced? Look at the numbers, it has only gotten worse. We don't like the solutions because they are hard - having people raise their kids and give them rules. Letting parents (and schools) discipline their kids and raise them in a positive manner. Stop encouraging kids from becoming single parents. Encourage churches to encourage everyone. It will be very hard to reverse the trend started by well meaning but foolish liberals and radicals that have rejected what our country believed for well over 100 years. But merely doing more of what those same "liberal" (now fascist/communists) tell us to do will not work. 100% plus some. GG ~ :FlagAm:/> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022 Posted December 29, 2012 Share Posted December 29, 2012 There was a time when criminal population was controlled by the law abidding population. Now that we are "civilized" we have the courts, the attorneys, huuman rights, the media decrying harsh treatment of people who broke the law, and other influences ad nauseum. In my opinion, the news media is the largest contributer to the kid glove treatment of criminals. The criminalization of the law abidding is continuing and speeding up. It is a sad fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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