Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 After giving this a lot of thought I started to think about all the nice new props and improvements that could be made for EOT with the funds generated from the state shoots. I'll gladly pay the $5. Do you think that is where the $5. will go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Around these parts - $1000 is a pretty good 40 hour paycheck WOW, How do I get one of them Jobs!!!! $25/hour? Sign me up. and I don't have a problem with the $5 fee. I do agree that the Regionals need relief this year if their applications have already gone out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 T-Bone made a good point when he said: "Now I'm kinda going out on a limb here.. Has anyone mentioned that SASS gives your match. 1. Free advertisement in the back of the Chronicle each month a line add $5.00 per month x 12 total $60.00 2. Free match article in the Chronicle once a year. Full page article $ 700.00 or more 3. Free website so you can post your match in the Events section. That would be $3.00 per month x 12 =$36.00 4. Free belt buckles or scarf slides for main match and State Wild Bunch match's. 2 ea. at $100 equals $200.00 5. 10 gift certificates or so in Free SASS Mercantile goods. 10ea. at $25.oo per certificate Total $250.00 6. Door Prizes in a box that Slipnoose prepares herself for match give a ways. Maybe $100.oo or so..... 7. Total,,, SASS pays your club to put on a State level match might be around and not a HARD figure of $$$ $1346.00" T-Bone's points are well stated and seem to have substance, even if it also seems that some of these benefits may be a benefit of membership in SASS and annual dues paid for that membership. The posts suggesting a separate line on the application for the $5. head charge appeals to me. However, I was wondering: What we do is "Cowboy Action Shooting". Can't there be a "State Cowboy Action Shooting Match/Championship" that is not associated with or sanctioned by the "Single Action Shooting Society"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Before I pay a fee - I like to know why. And then I can choose whether I wish to pay that fee or go do something different. I would like to know what service SASS is going to provide to Eldorado 2013 that warrants/ is worth $1000? What service will SASS provide to a 300 shooter State Championship worth $1500? To a 400 shooter match worth $2000? I don't know how many states actually have a sanctioned state championship and I don't know the attendance. But if even 35 states have a 2013 State Championship match and these matches average only 125 shooters. That's $22,000 annually - Thats a brand new F150 or Silverado. Hardly burger and fries. Around thse parts - $1000 is a pretty good 40 hour paycheck - is SASS going to be dedicating 40 hours of time to the sole betterment of Eldorado 2013? If not 40 - 30? 20? 10? As Misty noted, I can be SASS affliated without cost - I can put on an Annual without contracts, ad requirements or mandatory freebies. What $1000 benefit are we (or our shooters) receiving from SASS for it being a state championship? I understand the easy answer is to pass along the fee and simply accept it... But we're cowboys - we didn't get this far doing everything the easy way. [/quote I agree to me its not the $5 its the principle,the state and above matches are a vehicle to at least make those folks stay current SASS members so really the state matches are doing SASS a favor in that respect. To me the $45 we pay as members is already to high ,to me it should be around $25 as a primary member ,you pay $45 your spouse pays $35 you get chronicle and abilitity to shoot state and above matches. AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As Misty said, the fee will go towards benefits the state and above matches have been receiving for FREE for years. If I go to a state shoot, even my own home state shoot, $5 is NOTHING compared to the cost of gas, lodging, meals, and ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Santa Fe River Stan,36999L Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 As Misty said, the fee will go towards benefits the state and above matches have been receiving for FREE for years. If I go to a state shoot, even my own home state shoot, $5 is NOTHING compared to the cost of gas, lodging, meals, and ammo. The benefits the state match gets for FREE....really.......Misty left out the fact that the match is REQUIRED by SASS to spend a minimum amount of money advertising in the Chronicle....... Two guesses as to whether it's MORE or LESS than the value of the items provided to the state match by SASS for FREE. I'll pay the 5 bucks.....but don't make it out like the state and above matches have been getting over on SASS all these years...... Stan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shell Belle Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 well I am probably gonna tweak some melons here and then get flamed out but this just my view. I completely understand some sort of charge paid to the sanctioning body . I am very involved with running shoots for many different shooting sports and SASS is the only one that we do not have a per shooter "FEE" due at larger matches. I would not let 5.00 dollars stop me from attending a great shoot and as a match director I will probably raise the shooter fee by 5.00 and go on with my rat killin. Now that said SASS is the only one that requires us to pay for an add in the monthly publication, advertising our match maybe we can look at that.We also receive some goodies to give the shooters from most of the other shooting sports. Another point is all of the other shooting sports I am involved with have some sort of sponsored or professional type shooters in them that set the standards for us mere mortals. The "professional" shooter brings a level of corporate sponsorship to the game that manytimes help offset the per shooter fee sometimes for every shooter at the match. Lets face it we are going to come to a point in SASS where some things will have to change, it is a business whether we like it or not and any business must find ways to make a profit. Now I also believe SASS as a business has a whole lot of ways it should be giving back to the shooter(customer) better than it has in the past. I do think we are headed in the correct direction for now and we will see some great in improvements in the entertainment value of many larger shoots this year. I know WINTER RANGE always does a great job but seems like this year will be better than ever. I have heard that MANY MANY things have been arranged to make EOT a fantastic experience this year. I can tell you for a fact that The U.S. OPEN will be like nothin you have seen before. Misty Moonshine has been asking for suggestions every where and is trying to give the customer all she can . Heck Judge himself has been handing out surveys at every event I have been too for the last 3 months , I assume they have a battle plan to implement what they are hearing. Lets see what SASS has to offer this year before we wig out over few dollars administrative fee. This is just my optimistic point of view and some times I do get a little starry eyed . MOSE Mose, At the risk of sharing an unpopular opinion, I completely agree with you... SASS itself should be run like a business, and this is the only business I know of that doesn't charge fees for the use of its name and/or organization. I sat New Years and listened and talked with Judge and a few other shooters about where SASS was headed and what bugs there were and what needed to change. A big thing that they are trying to expand is the SASS scholarship program... Now y'all might feel this to be unnecessary, since you might not have any young shooters that would benefit from it, and to that I'll make a point that Judge made to me... He said that educated young people that have the same views and ideals as us was crucial to the survival of our sport and the future of gun ownership... He said, we better educate our side, because you'd better believe the liberals are educating theirs.. I couldn't agree more, and support this initiative 100%! As a shooter, $5 isn't much of a problem for fees to a shoot I enjoy. While that's being said, Judge also discussed the need to communicate with us, the shooters, where the money is going... Kind of like road construction signs that say "This project paid for with ---- funds". He understands that people like to know where their money goes... I'm pretty sure they are working on that. Change is inevitable, either our sport evolves, or it dies.. I'm looking forward to what SASS has in store for us, I'm confident that it will be for the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Brother King says it best: "Get over it.... and get on with it. Here's to a strong organization with many years to come. " It's a meezly $5 that helps support the organization that has brought, is bringing, and will bring great times for all of us... GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 There's a "thread" in the Saloon now on this. http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=183130 Cheers, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Just send $5 for those eligible to be a State Champion … NOT for everyone attending!! Let me explain … Everyone who attends a State Championship are NOT necessarily eligible to be a state champion in the category they enter (even thought they might pay the same fee as those that are). I certainly am not complaining about that … in fact .. I had the opportunity to attend the Nevada State Championship this past year and it was such a hoot I would attend no matter if it were a State Championship or just an Annual. Nevada is not my state of residence (as was the case for many attendees … I’ll bet ½ weren’t without even checking) so I couldn’t win a Nevada title anyhow (even if I were skilled enough to do so). Sooooooooooooooo … a State Championship is really a “match within a match” … you have people just shooting the match for a “match” award AND … some that are “eligible” shooting for a “STATE” title. Why not just add a checkbox on the application that says … “If you are eligible (a SASS member and a state resident) AND want to compete for a state title … check here and pay the $5 SASS State Championship Competitor fee). After all … it is a fee charged per “State Championship” shooter. In other words … just because I attend your State Championship match … doesn’t mean I am competition for a State Championship award (not because I don’t want too … but because I am not eligible!!) … sooooooooooooooooooo … why would you access me a SASS “State Championship” fee?? Just a thought … Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 PP, me thinks you missed da'boat with that That "fee" is for everydangshooter that shoots state level and above. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 PP, me thinks you missed da'boat with that That "fee" is for everydangshooter that shoots state level and above. LG I might have to disagree with you on this one LG, I think he's fully on board. You stated what IS, he stated what SHOULD BE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well. Here we are complaining about paying an extra $5 per state match starting in 2013. We don't even know what $5 is gonna be worth in 2013! I mean in the last three years the dollar has devaluated about 40%. And depending on what happens in November we may see it go down a lot more. So really it is only a $3 fee or less... Seriously, as many more dollars as it takes to do anything now, it's a wonder they haven't raised annual dues too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well. Here we are complaining about paying an extra $5 per state match starting in 2013. We don't even know what $5 is gonna be worth in 2013! I mean in the last three years the dollar has devaluated about 40%. And depending on what happens in November we may see it go down a lot more. So really it is only a $3 fee or less... Seriously, as many more dollars as it takes to do anything now, it's a wonder they haven't raised annual dues too. Unfortunately, while the dollar is going down in value and it takes more to buy the same things, my pay certainly hasn't gone up the past three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I might have to disagree with you on this one LG, I think he's fully on board. You stated what IS, he stated what SHOULD BE. Yes, two worlds apart for sure. "SHOULD BE" and SASS, now that's funny right there me thinks. LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patagonia Pete Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 PP, me thinks you missed da'boat with that That "fee" is for everydangshooter that shoots state level and above. LG LG, I know it seems that way but Philly is getting my drift. All I am saying is I am shooting in "your" State Championship match ... but ... I am not really competing at the State Championship level ... I am only a match participant. The match management really need not send my SASS number and my name in to SASS ... BECAUSE ... I am not really participating at the State Championship level (I am ineligible). I am just an "extra" shooting at your match for "fun" (and a local club award if I am lucky). State residents ... on the other hand ... are on the record. Just thinking out loud ... Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Understand what you are saying. However, you can WIN a State or Regional other than your own and get the first place trophy. Most State matches including Eldorado and Bordertown, for example, have a separate award for the "State" Champion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 From my saddle, the fee supports SASS's support of the match, not the state champions per se. As you say, you go to the match because it's a great match, not because you are eligible to be the state champion. Every match I attend that gives awards some of my match fee goes to pay for those awards, awards I will likely never win. I could complain that since I personally won't benefit, I shouldn't have to pay that portion of the match fee. But that's not how it works, nor should it IMO. I guess it comes down to this... For MDs and Clubs hosting or thinking about hosting a state level match, if the fee bothers you that much, don't charge it, and don't host the state or above match. For shooters, if it bothers you that much find another match to attend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I ran into this at the '10 Wy. state shoot at Cody, Wy. I was first place Dualist. My good friend "Camp Cookie" was 2nd place and "State Champ". LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Unfortunately, while the dollar is going down in value and it takes more to buy the same things, my pay certainly hasn't gone up the past three years. I wasn't saying I like the increase. I'm kinda torn, because I can see both sides and agree in some respects with each. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I ran into this at the '10 Wy. state shoot at Cody, Wy. I was first place Dualist. My good friend "Camp Cookie" was 2nd place and "State Champ". LG Only two in the category and he had a Stage DQ, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Only two in the category and he had a Stage DQ, right? NAW, just "greased" the right palms is all LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San Quinton, SASS #4818 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If anybody thinks for one minute that any extra fees are going to the SASS Scholarship Fund, I would suggest thinking otherwise. For those who have been around for a while, remember that the TG body voted to do away with any "score enhancing" bonuses that were being used to by many matches as SASS Scholarship donations. That was $5 for a "free miss" recorded as a bonus. Obviously, enough people had a problem with that concept to make a rule disallowing it. It is truly amazing how the membership/participants in this sport/hobby feel about $5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 ... It is truly amazing how the membership/participants in this sport/hobby feel about $5. Ain't that the squeaky truth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It is truly amazing how the membership/participants in this sport/hobby feel about $5. Yeah, considering the hundreds or even thousands spent each year on equipment, costuming, traveling, maintaining, ammo, for themsleves and family pards.... ...of course, living here in a dominant Dutch community I know how some are with $5. Not sayin' it's a bad thing...I was traveling with one of our reps (from here and last name Broekema ) and he would have a fit if he passed a gas station that advertised gas just 1 cent below what he just payed for " Crap...if I just had waited a few miles I would have saved a little more"....and him driving a Cadillac Escalade, drssed to the tee, and supporting his daughter at University of Michigan. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deacon Henry, SASS #53503L Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Santa Fe River Stan, Shell Belle, San Quinton all good points. Those that put on the State level matches need to report back on how things "improved". I'll pay the fee. Let's see where it goes. Could be a winner. Deacon Henry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Mose, At the risk of sharing an unpopular opinion, I completely agree with you... SASS itself should be run like a business, and this is the only business I know of that doesn't charge fees for the use of its name and/or organization. I sat New Years and listened and talked with Judge and a few other shooters about where SASS was headed and what bugs there were and what needed to change. A big thing that they are trying to expand is the SASS scholarship program... Now y'all might feel this to be unnecessary, since you might not have any young shooters that would benefit from it, and to that I'll make a point that Judge made to me... He said that educated young people that have the same views and ideals as us was crucial to the survival of our sport and the future of gun ownership... He said, we better educate our side, because you'd better believe the liberals are educating theirs.. I couldn't agree more, and support this initiative 100%! As a shooter, $5 isn't much of a problem for fees to a shoot I enjoy. While that's being said, Judge also discussed the need to communicate with us, the shooters, where the money is going... Kind of like road construction signs that say "This project paid for with ---- funds". He understands that people like to know where their money goes... I'm pretty sure they are working on that. Change is inevitable, either our sport evolves, or it dies.. I'm looking forward to what SASS has in store for us, I'm confident that it will be for the better. What she said. Besides. She is to cute to argue with. But SASS as a business, SHOULD, have been chargeing this all along. They have been crazy not to. And we have got off easy to go this long without it. So support what they are doing 100% on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It is truly amazing how the membership/participants in this sport/hobby feel about $5. I count my blessings every day that Sour Kraut and I are able to compete in this great sport the way we do. But I also know of people who USED to be able to compete and still want to but, for the want of $5, can't. There but for the grace of God go I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 And, another thing. Is it right for regional's to pay $5 for a shooter that won an entry from another clubs state championship? That is another $100 for some regionals. Money they cannot recoop. These free shoots were not a problem in the past, now they are no longer "free." Do they pay $5 for the SASS representatives free shoot? Do they pay $5 for the free shoots provided match workers and berm marshals? So many questions, so little feedback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I count my blessings every day that Sour Kraut and I are able to compete in this great sport the way we do. But I also know of people who USED to be able to compete and still want to but, for the want of $5, can't. There but for the grace of God go I. Count our blessings also. Even with money somewhat tight. $5 buck is still not that much for us. But know it could be to some. And I HAVE been there before. But having been there before. I also think that if an extra $5 bucks is a hardship for going to a State Match. Then maybe one should not be going in the first place. Again. Saying this from someone who HAS been there. And, another thing. Is it right for regional's to pay $5 for a shooter that won an entry from another clubs state championship? That is another $100 for some regionals. Money they cannot recoop. These free shoots were not a problem in the past, now they are no longer "free." Do they pay $5 for the SASS representatives free shoot? Do they pay $5 for the free shoots provided match workers and berm marshals? So many questions, so little feedback. Good questions. And sure don't seem right for a match to have to pay for those free entrys that SASS makes you give away. As far as for the $5 for the helpers. Just my opinion. But they should still have to pay the $5 bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 +1 to what Chuckaroo said about "free" shoots. Nothing is free. SASS is a business and a lot of the Annual, State and Regional Shoots are set up to generate revenue to help keep the game going for their club, state or region. Free shoots cost money. For example, let's say EOT gives away 25 complementary shoots during the year. If the EOT entry fee is $200.00 that is $5,000.00 in lost revenue that EOT (or a Regional or other shoot) does not receive. That loss of revenue has to be made up or accommodated in the match fee structure. All matches, including EOT, have costs and in many cases these costs are rising. Will an additional $5.00 stop people from shooting a State or Regional match. I hope not. But, two years ago diesel was $2.00 per gallon. Now it is $4.00. Brass costs more, lead costs more, powder and primers cost more, etc., etc. The cumulative impact of these rising costs is going to cause more and more people to have to seriously think about which matches they can go to or whether they will have to skip a few matches. It will also require match directors to take a hard look at their budgets. Remember, NOTHING is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcadia Outlaw, SASS 71385 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Count our blessings also. Even with money somewhat tight. $5 buck is still not that much for us. But know it could be to some. And I HAVE been there before. But having been there before. I also think that if an extra $5 bucks is a hardship for going to a State Match. Then maybe one should not be going in the first place. Again. Saying this from someone who HAS been there. Good questions. And sure don't seem right for a match to have to pay for those free entrys that SASS makes you give away. As far as for the $5 for the helpers. Just my opinion. But they should still have to pay the $5 bucks. hmmm,wish I could come up with good a idea where you get folks to volunteer thier time ,thier money, & so on for a For Profit Organization that I own. So now your payin $45 for SASS membership & $5 each time you go to a state match or above.Personally I think $45 is to high to begin with. AO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 +1 to what Chuckaroo said about "free" shoots. Nothing is free. SASS is a business and a lot of the Annual, State and Regional Shoots are set up to generate revenue to help keep the game going for their club, state or region. Free shoots cost money. For example, let's say EOT gives away 25 complementary shoots during the year. If the EOT entry fee is $200.00 that is $5,000.00 in lost revenue that EOT (or a Regional or other shoot) does not receive. That loss of revenue has to be made up or accommodated in the match fee structure. All matches, including EOT, have costs and in many cases these costs are rising. Will an additional $5.00 stop people from shooting a State or Regional match. I hope not. But, two years ago diesel was $2.00 per gallon. Now it is $4.00. Brass costs more, lead costs more, powder and primers cost more, etc., etc. The cumulative impact of these rising costs is going to cause more and more people to have to seriously think about which matches they can go to or whether they will have to skip a few matches. It will also require match directors to take a hard look at their budgets. Remember, NOTHING is free. Actually NOTHING is free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 AND it's WINTER too........ LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 And, another thing. Is it right for regional's to pay $5 for a shooter that won an entry from another clubs state championship? That is another $100 for some regionals. Money they cannot recoop. These free shoots were not a problem in the past, now they are no longer "free." Do they pay $5 for the SASS representatives free shoot? Do they pay $5 for the free shoots provided match workers and berm marshals? So many questions, so little feedback. You guys out East must be real nice, because around here only the overall State champs get an entry into a regional, I know for a fact a category champ doesn't and the overall winners in a Regional get an entry into WR. But still you make a good point. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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