PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 5) Should the attached, proposed Category System be adopted? NOTE: Some of the Ladies categories that have historically been under populated at most annual matches are no longer on the officially recognized list. Those have been replaced with FCGF, SGF, Cattle Baron, and 80+ (name as yet undetermined) A Match Director will always have the OPTION to offer ANY additional categories; as well as the OPTION to change the minimum requirement for honoring a category. NAME---------------------------AGE / STYLE-----M/F----LADIES Buckaroo/ette--------------------13 & under--------X--------X Junior-------------------------------14-16--------------X--------X Cowboy/Cowgirl------------------17-35--------------X--------X Wrangler---------------------------36-48--------------X--------X Forty Niner------------------------49-59--------------X--------X Senior------------------------------60-64--------------X--------X Silver Senior----------------------65-69--------------X--------X Elder Statesman-----------------70-74--------------X Cattle Baron-----------------------75-79-------------X (name TBD)-----------------------80+----------------X Duelist-------------------------------Duelist-----------X--------X Senior Duelist---------------------60+Duelist------X GunFighter-------------------------GF----------------X--------X Senior Gunfighter----------------60+GF------------X Frontier Cartridge-----------------BP----------------X--------X Frontier Cartridge Duelist-------BPD--------------X Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter--BPGF------------X Frontiersman-------------------Frontiersman------X Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl----Classic Cowboy---X--------X B Western----------------------B Western----------X--------X ------------------------------------COUNT====>-20--------12 Category Rules: 1. Categories listed are the "Official" SASS categories. 2. All categories must be initially offered at State and above level matches. 3. MDs are NOT required to honor categories that fail to secure a minimum of 5 entries at the State and Regional level, or a minimum of 10 entries at WR and EOT. A cutoff deadline shall be established and posted by the sponsoring club. 4. Match application forms should ask for a shooter's second (or third) choice. 5. If it becomes necessary to drop any category due to a failure to meet the minimum number of shooters required, those effected shooters will be placed into their second choice category. If no second choice has been given, "Age" based category shooters will Rollback" into the next lower category. The only exception is the Cowboy category. Since it is at the bottom of the scale, it will roll forward into the Wrangler category if necessary. The Junior categories are exempt. 6. Shooters will not be allowed to compete in an "Age" based category that is outside of their age group, except in the case of a category "Rollback" 7. At the MD discretion, ANY category may be added, and any minimum requirement may be reduced. 8. These rules apply to state and above matches, and are recommended at all lower level matches. 9. OPEN category is any age/shooting style/propellant w/SASS-legal CAS equipment. LINK TO PDF VERSION Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire # 35333L Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 So, if I'm reading this right, a 72 year old lady would have to roll back to ladies silver senior? HF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I reckon I'm ok with it.. not sure though... If I was in the Grand Dame Catagory.. I'd sure be pissed.. I've take all this time to stay shootin' and grow older gracefully doin' it and they are makin' me shoot against them young silver senior ladies.. don't think that's fair.. But the Match Director has the option of adding it if I understand correctly.. But would they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I reckon I'm ok with it.. not sure though... If I was in the Grand Dame Catagory.. I'd sure be pissed.. I've take all this time to stay shootin' and grow older gracefully doin' it and they are makin' me shoot against them young silver senior ladies.. don't think that's fair.. But the Match Director has the option of adding it if I understand correctly.. But would they? I don't recall ever meeting a Grand Dame. However, if one frequented our shoots, I'd sure have a category for her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I don't recall ever meeting a Grand Dame. However, if one frequented our shoots, I'd sure have a category for her. In our neck of the woods... the ladies are the same age based as Elder Statesman.. I know of 2 of em' without lookin' at Posse Lists that come to our big shoots.. and 2 more that just graduated there.. Reckon they'd have to shoot against Ladies Silver Seniors Edit: Second thought.. I'd almost bet the silver senior ladies are gonna be the ones that's gonna be pissed.. Those 2 ladies finally got out of our catagory into Grand Dame.. and now SASS is gonna throw them back in.. dang it anyhow.. they always whomped us before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Any Grand Dame that shows up to shoot should get an award. I fear that unless Grand Dame is added back this item will fail. Too bad, there are some good changes in the rest of it. Adding it back at the Convention will miss all those clubs that submit a written proxie before the Convention or give an alternate TG direction to vote how the club voted no matter the changes (no good but happens a lot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 deleted, double tap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Ray Hality, SASS# 37355 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 So, if I'm reading this right, a 72 year old lady would have to roll back to ladies silver senior? HF Only if the Match Director chose to NOT offer GRAND DAME as a category option on the match entry application. (with no minimum number required for recognition) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I'm good with it. MOst MD's that I know are eager to please everyone....the GDs may have to organize ahead of time like we have done for FCGF at various shoots. CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 No. I think every category should have an "official" ladies version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 We have several that shoot regularly at monthly matches where I shoot.... Seems unfair to have additional age categories for men and not women. JJJ-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C0ckr0ach, SASS #26100 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 As we all are getting older, I suggest the following Category names: Old 80 to 84 Very Old 85 to 89 Ancient 90 to 94 Very Ancient 95 to 99 Centenarian 100+ I am looking forward to shooting in the Centenarian Category with PaleWolf (his beard should be white by then) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Waimea Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Don't see Outlaw on the list. (insert sad face here) Just got my butt kicked by Larry Earp (yet again) today but had one of my best fun days ever. <Lobby mode on> Ya can't explain it, you have to experience it. I think Outlaw would be a good addition to the list. It is unisex and non-age based that anybody can shoot. And it's FUN! Not fast, but FUN. <Lobby mode off> Waimea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Shoot it in "OPEN" category (see Agenda Item #3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 No. Any men's category should have a matching ladies category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Y'know, this one just plain ticks me off. There's that stupid age-based thing but they combined THAT sour pill with some sugar....FCGF, SGF, etc. Ok sure, they leave a bit up to the MATCH DIRECTOR but this 'got to shoot with your age group' crap well.... NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painted Filly Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Well I liked it until I saw all my catagories go away! I shoot Ladies Frontier Cartridge Duelist and Ladies Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter. This will put me into shooting with the men. that is not fair to us women. You want more women to shoot this is not the way by getting rid of our catagories!!!!!! I think if you added the ladies catagories back in and just added the FCGF and Cattle Baron and 80+. of cource with ladies equivalent this may have a chance to pass. But as much as I want FCGF added it will do me no good with out a ladies version! Painted Filly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Lefty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 No what we have is fine as it stands! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Not just no but HELL NO!! Stop tweaking and changing categories already. And if you are going to offer a men's category, there needs to be a women's side available. To not have one is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"Pop" Dawson Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Not just no but HELL NO!! Stop tweaking and changing categories already. And if you are going to offer a men's category, there needs to be a women's side available. To not have one is ridiculous. Plus 1!!! I say no to everyone of the agenda items that have been proposed !! I'll be suggesting to our TG next Saturday to make the motion to leave off any changes for at least 5 years. If we get this going all over we might, just might get it across we are tired of all the changing things around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hello, As with all items, I vote my club's wishes. However, personally, I want Grand Dame to be official!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not just offered at the MD's discretion. I guess I really agree with some of the others, all categories should have a ladies version. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Another big NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethan callahan Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ladies Senior Duelist should be recognized as a catagory also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Fuller Bullspit Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 So if this passes, and the "open" category passes, what happens? Does this change, with no "open" category rule or does the "open" category get added to this proposal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 So, if I'm reading this right, a 72 year old lady would have to roll back to ladies silver senior? HF No, she wouldn't be required to shoot Ladies' Silver Senior. She could shoot Elder Statesman, since there are no men's categories in SASS. There just would not be a gender-protected category, unless she rolled back to LSS. Take a look at p. 13 of the Shooters' Handbook, and also the top of the column marked "M/F." Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 No. I think every category should have an "official" ladies version. ^^THIS^^ If there's a men's category, there's should be an accompanying ladies category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 ^^THIS^^ If there's a men's category, there's should be an accompanying ladies category. Hi Filly, Not sure what you are saying. Currently there are open categories (ladies or men can shoot them) and ladies only categories. Are you saying the open should be men only? Regards, AM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I vote NO !!! Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazarus Longshot, SASS #44254 Life Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Another NO! Any official men's category should offer a corresponding ladies' category! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 17, 2011 Author Share Posted October 17, 2011 So, if I'm reading this right, a 72 year old lady would have to roll back to ladies silver senior? Only if the Match Director chose to NOT offer GRAND DAME as a category option on the match entry application. (with no minimum number required for recognition) No, she wouldn't be required to shoot Ladies' Silver Senior. She could shoot Elder Statesman, since there are no men's categories in SASS. There just would not be a gender-protected category, unless she rolled back to LSS. Take a look at p. 13 of the Shooters' Handbook, and also the top of the column marked "M/F." Thanks for that correction eGG! That had completely slipped what's left of my mind. CATEGORIESSASS recognizes shooting categories based upon age, gender, costuming, equipment, shooting style and/or propellant. The age for a competitor is determined by their age on the first day the match starts. All SASS categories may be subdivided by gender, e.g. Lady Duelist, Lady Gunfighter, Lady 49’er, Lady Wrangler, etc. Competitors may compete within any category for which they qualify. There are no men’s categories. SHB p.13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Hi Filly, Not sure what you are saying. Currently there are open categories (ladies or men can shoot them) and ladies only categories. Are you saying the open should be men only? Regards, AM Nope, I'm saying the exact opposite. For ANY SASS sanctioned category there should be a men's a ladies division. Men's and ladies Senior Duelist, Senior Gunfighter, Frontier Cartridge, etc. There should never be an instance where ladies are forced to compete agains men. They can if they want to but, they shouldn't be FORCED to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Fred SASS Life 20364 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 NO! It is gender discriminatory. There are always fewer women in the shooting sports and something like this will make for even fewer of them participating. There should be a Ladies category corresponding to every mens category. To make women shoot in the same category with men places the women at an extreme disadvantage. Some may think and say there are officially no "Men" categories but the reality is that there are in everyones eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't recall ever meeting a Grand Dame. However, if one frequented our shoots, I'd sure have a category for her. We got one. She frequents shoots, shoots Wild Bunch and is an avid gun collector. Shortly she is heading off to Bordertown. At least the Grand Dame category is waiting for her in Arizona. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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