Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

Agenda Item #2


PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

Recommended Posts

Fixing this whole RUBE GOLDBERG age/ category mess is just another leg on the RUBE GOLDBERG contraption. It may run, but it's a disaster and every attempt is just another leg on the disaster.

 

It should have all been scrapped long ago.

 

EDIT: Absolutely "NO".

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 159
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Dooley Gang "Triple Crown" excellent event.. ALL SASS rules apply..

 

April.. Sparta, IL... Midwest Classic.. Cowpolk shoots 49er wins his class :) SASS rules apply..

 

September... Sparta,IL... US Open... Same cowpolk shoots 49er.. wins his class agin' :) Lookin' forward to Comin At Cha now.. :) SASS rules apply..

 

October... Anywhere, United States.. Same Cowpolk has a birthday :)

 

November.. English, Texas.. Comin' At Cha.. final leg of the Triple Crown.. Yippee!!

 

Sorry cowpoke you had a birthday.. you are now a senior... :wacko: No longer eligible :angry:

 

Rance <_<

It would happen if the rule were in affect now..

Link to post
Share on other sites

No

Link to post
Share on other sites

So I guess if the last minute shuffling were called to a halt there wouldn't be an issue.

Hi Calisto,

 

I think that is a good idea. Also, I would not publish the categories folks have signed up for. Just publish names and posse lists, if you like.

 

If I were in charge, :rolleyes:;) I would only allow last minute shuffling (after a cut off date for purchasing awards) for good cause. Usually, I'm not in favor of subjectivity. However, allowing someone who brought smokeless by accident instead of BP or someone shooting Duelist and injured their strong-side hand...to change is a reasonable action. I consider those examples to be reasonable accomodations.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

PS After reading all the comment and logical arguments, I still think age-based is goofy :P;) without an upper limit.

PPS I have a hunch I will not be voting in sync with my opinion.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You heard it, do you like it? Cherry Pickin I mean?

 

Edit: To all and not necessariarly you SFRS, if you do not want to protect the young from unfair advatage of older shooters, then why do yo want protection from the younger shooters in your catagory? I wouldn't have a problem with opening up all catagories to all age groups.

 

I could care less about cherry pickin......

 

if an older shooter wants to drop down in age category so what........

 

I was perfectly happy with the 12 categories we had when I started........If you remember 49 was sold to us because if you were 49 you couldn't compete with someone that was 36.....then we were told that if you were 36 you couldn't compete with someone that was 18.......NOW we're being told that someone 18 can't compete against someone that is 60......

 

Somewhere in all this someone is full of BULL......so why don't we just hold where we're at and quit ADDING BULL to the incredible amount that we already have......

 

Stan - not intended as a Blast towards Blastmaster......comments in general after I answered his question......

Link to post
Share on other sites

I could care less about cherry pickin......

 

if an older shooter wants to drop down in age category so what........

 

I was perfectly happy with the 12 categories we had when I started........If you remember 49 was sold to us because if you were 49 you couldn't compete with someone that was 36.....then we were told that if you were 36 you couldn't compete with someone that was 18.......NOW we're being told that someone 18 can't compete against someone that is 60......

 

Somewhere in all this someone is full of BULL......so why don't we just hold where we're at and quit ADDING BULL to the incredible amount that we already have......

 

Stan - not intended as a Blast towards Blastmaster......comments in general after I answered his question......

 

 

Dang :blink: Sante Fe...

ya kinda get rid of all the BS, speak yer piece and get to the point...

 

 

I kinda like that idea.. :)

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you remember 49 was sold to us because if you were 49 you couldn't compete with someone that was 36.....then we were told that if you were 36 you couldn't compete with someone that was 18.......NOW we're being told that someone 18 can't compete against someone that is 60......

 

 

^^ This is exactly what I was wondering.

 

I joined SASS just about the time the age based categories were being introduced. I remember all the uproar about NEEDING these new categories because the folks who were getting older were at a distinct disadvantage against the young pups. Now we're being told we need to add to those exact same rules to protect the YOUNGER shooters?????? :wacko:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see: Would this mean that Max Montana, Widdowmaker Hill and Lassiter would be forced to shoot Senior Gunfighter? If so, then I vote yes...but I want it to be reviewed in five years because I DON'T want to shoot Senior Gunfighter. :D Seriously, no way Jose! It's not every situation that someone is running from competition, but sometimes the other way around. When someone "chooses their category wisely," so what.

Link to post
Share on other sites

...

I think that is a good idea. Also, I would not publish the categories folks have signed up for. Just publish names and posse lists, if you like.

 

If I were in charge, :rolleyes:;) I would only allow last minute shuffling (after a cut off date for purchasing awards) for good cause. Usually, I'm not in favor of subjectivity. However, allowing someone who brought smokeless by accident instead of BP or someone shooting Duelist and injured their strong-side hand...to change is a reasonable action. I consider those examples to be reasonable accommodations. ...

Allie Mo

 

Cherry Picken, Category Jumping, or what ever you want to call it, HAPPENS, at local matches, and the higher up the match, the more it happens. (If you have not seen or experienced this, you are very lucky)

 

To this, This Agenda Item change # 2, 'to not allow a older person, to compete in a younger class', NO.

I view this as a solution to the problem, of 'Cherry Picken'.

 

So to prevent, and 'possibly solve' this problem. Let the match directors state, "You sign up for a category, that's the category you shoot". (With a good reason to 'jump' excluded, as Allie Mo stated). Of course, that will take some Sand on the MD's part.

 

Doing that, will not solve the 'Cherry Picken', at local matches, where when you sign up that day, just before the shoot, where a person sees who is their, and the category they are in. But it will go a long way towards the 'switching' at the last min, in a match where you have to sign up, a week or month, or more at a large match.

 

Not to mention, making the MD's/Scorekeeper/whosoever's job, a whole lot easier, by not having to juggle around all the last min changes in category for a shooter.

 

So, If their is a change in the rules, I would suggest: "At a Match, the category that you sign up for, is the category you will shoot, with the following exceptions."

 

Will that stop, (the people who want to), from saying: "Oh I forgot this ammo, or guns, or costume items, or, I injured ... (etc.), so I need to change". No.

Just like category's don't stop some people, from wearing a leather shoe lace around their wrists, and calling it a 'Cuff". Or cutting out a knife from a aluminum can, (etc) and saying: "It's Legal, because the rules don't describe 'Cuff' or 'Knife', (etc). If you covered all those possibilities, each year the rules would have to be amended, as all the, 'ways around them' have been discovered. And the rule book would be several inches thick.

 

Who cares, if a 60 year old with 100 shoots under his/her belt, wants to shoot with a 16 year old with 10 shoots, (or visa/versa). To quote a old saw: "Ya Dnace whith who ya bronge". But when you sign up for a category, then switch at the last min, because you think their might be some advantage for you, it just like bringing one person to the dance, and going home with another.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I say leave it alone. I am a new shooter. I started this summer at 46. I'm now 47. I will probably shoot 49er when get to that age but I've been competing against some excellent shooters in their late 30s and I might want to test my mettle against them from time to time as my skill level improves.

Link to post
Share on other sites

......when you sign up for a category, then switch at the last min, because you think their might be some advantage for you, it just like bringing one person to the dance, and going home with another.

 

 

My question is, so what? Does this happen? Sure. But again I ask, so what? Is this hurting anybody to the point where we need to make a rule about it? :blush:

Link to post
Share on other sites

I say NO!

What problem is this change attempting to solve.

 

Remember that this is entertainment. We pay to compete. We ought to have a chance.

 

But if we must continue to fiddle around with the categories let us perform a proper

demographic study to determine the category ranges so the shooters can be spread over the categories to a consistent number.

Right now the category boundaries don't match the demographics of the sport.

 

 

Just saying my 2 cents worth.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it will make a difference. It prevents a shooter from shooting a category they want to just because they pass some arbitrary age deadline. Why do we want to become the Age Police? If there is some youngster out there in the Cowboy category that can't stand being beaten by a 48-yr old broken down fat man, then maybe they aren't wired right for competitive shooting.

 

So you want your cake and to eat it too? If you are going to have an age based catagory then have upper and lower limits or don't have it at all? I do not believe that some one would shoot down an age or two for any other reason then to run away from the competition that they would have. I say grow a pair and shoot the age catagory that you belong in.

 

KQ

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the rule should read, "No matter how old Rattlesnake Wrangler is he can never shoot any category, 1-handed or squaw-grip that Brother King is shooting. PERIOD" :D

Link to post
Share on other sites

I do not believe that some one would shoot down an age or two for any other reason then to run away from the competition that they would have.

 

 

You'd be incorrect in your thinking. I've known more than one shooter who did that to run TOWARD the competition. These shooters changed to be in the categories where the faster shooters already were. Their reasoning? "What's the point in competing if you're not going to compete against the best?"

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't get too worked up guys this one won't pass anyway. I am suprised by the amount of people that think it's cool for someone to scout out a weaker category for the sole purpose of getting a buckle or plaque. Also the instances that I have seen this the shooters do not win the class,but usually still buckle. Everyone I talk to in my neck of the woods really thinks it's a bs classless move. Not trying to change anyones mind here either. Just giving my opinion,I'll gladly talk to anyone face to face about this.

 

Spot on Deuce. In my short two years of Cowboy shootin I've seen the "cherry picking". I don't understand how someone could feel good about themselves for bringing home a buckle only because they chose a category that was easier than their normal choice. I'd feel like crap. Unless I'm missing something, their overall placement would pretty much be the same. No matter what your category, you are still competing with the entire field. I shoot Gunfighter and although I do like to see how I did against the other Gunfighters, I pay more attention to my overall placement and whether or not I shot at my full potential. I'm sure I'm more the odd ball with that.

 

Whiskey James

Link to post
Share on other sites

You'd be incorrect in your thinking. I've known more than one shooter who did that to run TOWARD the competition. These shooters changed to be in the categories where the faster shooters already were. Their reasoning? "What's the point in competing if you're not going to compete against the best?"

 

Philly, have seen what you are descibing.I'll bet the farm that the opposite of what you describe happens more often, much much more often. I've seen it first hand time and time again. It's seems to be a hot button topic that folks don't like to talk about. Kinda like team spotting and TO abuse. It's happens way more than we want to believe.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You'd be incorrect in your thinking. I've known more than one shooter who did that to run TOWARD the competition. These shooters changed to be in the categories where the faster shooters already were. Their reasoning? "What's the point in competing if you're not going to compete against the best?"

 

 

You are right. I hate blanket statements about something like this. My bad. That being said I wouldn't believe that the majority of shooters who shoot an aged based catagory would jump down a catagory at a state or above match do so to "compete against the best". Expecially if they would have their posterior handed to them in their catagory.

 

KQ

Link to post
Share on other sites

The problem with cherry picking is that it's usually the same select few individuals who are allowed to wait until the last minute before signing up or changing to another category. Very few shooters would even want to do it,even if they had the chance, but most shooters wouldn't get the chance to do it if they wanted to. Of course there are shooters who move to go against tougher competition, but not all. Smokin Gator

Link to post
Share on other sites

To Deuce and Ketchum: Yep, I'd be right there with you saying the majority of category jumpers do so with the intent of avoiding better shooters. Just wanted to point out that's it does happen the other way on occasion. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally. I don't care one way or the other.

 

But.

 

If some old cogger drops down from SR Duelist and beats me.

 

Maybe I should step my game up. Good for him. I will shake his hand and say I got whooped.

See ya at the next one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the 2011 Comin' At Cha Category List, go to the Wrangler Category and look at who would have to move.

Hint his name starts with Judge and ends with Bean.

 

http://www.badlandsbar3.com/CAC2011/CAC2011-Categories.htm

 

And I Still say No!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Look at the 2011 Comin' At Cha Category List, go to the Wrangler Category and look at who would have to move.

Hint his name starts with Judge and ends with Bean.

 

http://www.badlandsbar3.com/CAC2011/CAC2011-Categories.htm

 

And I Still say No!!

Holy Cow!!

 

Good for the Judge … It’s great to see him participating “period” (at his age) and great to see him shooting where he pleases (as allowed under the current rules).

 

That’s kinda interesting actually … the older you get … the more categories you have to choose from … ha!!

I guess this goes to show that … sometimes … the less you say … the more influence you have.

He hasn’t said a word but his action weighs heavy on this thread.

 

Good research … thanks for pointing this out … more to think about now ...

 

Pete

Link to post
Share on other sites

You'd be incorrect in your thinking. I've known more than one shooter who did that to run TOWARD the competition. These shooters changed to be in the categories where the faster shooters already were. Their reasoning? "What's the point in competing if you're not going to compete against the best?"

 

 

Outa the mouths of babes!!!!!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never been a big fan of having so many age based categories. I favor a category structure that places more emphasis on the type of equipment, propellant, etc. I'd rather feel like I'm competing against folks playing with the same equipment rather than those of the same age. I am not totally against age-based categories either. However, I'd rather see only 2 or 3 age divisions and more structure based on the other variables.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You don't have to be in the same catagory to compete against someone else or for that matter several people. I have picked a catagory and have stayed in it the entire time. When the smoke clears and the match is over, I look at the score board and see how I placed in relationship to everyone else and it doesn't matter to me if they are a class ahead, or behind or in my class. How far up the score sheet I am is my reward. Routinely switching cataogries is more of an attempt to get in a better position to take home an award, any award.

 

I will trade anyone a 1st place award in a class that has no competion in it and the placement overall is way down there vs a 1st place overall score w/o an award. YMMV.

 

 

Blastmaster

Link to post
Share on other sites

I say YES,And I too am sure this wont pass,so if none of you are not cherry picking lets open up all the age groups to everyone,see how they like that.

Link to post
Share on other sites

When the smoke clears and the match is over, I look at the score board and see how I placed in relationship to everyone else and it doesn't matter to me if they are a class ahead, or behind or in my class. How far up the score sheet I am is my reward.

 

Blastmaster

 

Blastmaster...

Kinda of the way I play the game... At a big match.. (or local match) my goal is to try and be in the top 25% of all the shooters..

 

and sometimes I'm disappointed with myself :blink: sometimes I'm not.. :)

 

Rance <_<

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.