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Possum Skinner, SASS#60697

If you were SASS CEO

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Scrap the categories that we shoot now and have them redone. Fewer categories and less age bracketing. One hand, two hands and both hands, smokeless and BP, ladies and gentlemen. Throw in one for the kids and lets get back to having fun. That's what I started this for, was to have some fun with a bunch of old and new friends. It truly has become an all out competition, to the point that if a shooter can't win they want a category to "Level the field" a might. Just get out there and shoot, be proud for the winners cause it will mean something again. Leave your stress and worries in the front seat of your car.

 

+!

 

I'd take the complications out of SASS matches. Take it back to 1995 levels like it was when I joined SASS. Modern, Traditional, Junior, add Buckaroo, Senior, Elder Statesman, men's, ladies. 40 cal & above, below 40 cal. Costume based categories would be judged only on appearance, not shooting abilities. Wild Bunch matches would be held seperately, or as a side match.

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The number of categories is pretty ridiculous - with all the categories today, you can easily place one, two, or three if you want to. I shot FCGF yesterday with a 7 shot 56-50 Spencer, a single shot shotgun, and a pair of 7 1/2" .45 Vaqueros w/255 grain SWC's & full BP warthog loads, placing second from last overall... but 1st in class.

 

I believe this is far more true than many in the game care to admit! Because I do not wish to hurt any feelings, I'll keep this short and simply say I believe the category overkill really begins to diminish what "winning" actually means in any given competition(even a relatively lighthearted one)at some point, regardless of how you choose to play the game - and we crossed that line some years ago.

 

That said, other than a couple posters who seem to desire a total overhaul or re-invention of CAS, I agree with much of what has been suggested in this thread.

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Wild Bunch matches would be held seperately, or as a side match.

 

Kinda like it is now? ;)

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Well, Virg if after a decade here you woulda sometime or 'nuther edited your profile and put in yer location pards wouldn't need to guess. Still not too late.

 

Goes for all you other galutes and galutas too. Do it. Do it today.

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Leave everything alone. This is cause I r wise know - No matter what I d0 some folks is gonna moan anywoo.

 

Shameless Womanizer, A former CEO believe it or not.

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New rule: Do not complain about a situation without giving a viable solution at the same time.

New rule: Every shooter must smile and tell one joke durring a match.

New rule: If you can make the timer laugh while saying your "line" one second is taken off your overall time.

 

Slim

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New rule: Do not complain about a situation without giving a viable solution at the same time.

New rule: Every shooter must smile and tell one joke durring a match.

New rule: If you can make the timer laugh while saying your "line" one second is taken off your overall time.

 

Slim

:)

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The topic is CEO of SASS...not NCOWS.

 

:wacko:

 

 

+1

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JMFlint are you saying make it like a *.org not a .com?

If you are I agree.

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Ownership of SASS to the "members" then I'd resign and stay out of the way.

 

And watch the food fight begin from a safe distance.

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:lol: Good guess Jack ,but ... nope. I am just partial to Sin City as a play land. ^_^

 

 

You Sir, are a VERY wise man. ;)

 

As for me being King for a day; I'd make a rule that nobody is granted membership into SASS until the president of their prospective club sends a letter verifying that person has helped put on at least one match. If more people knew the amount of time and effort went into putting on even monthly matches, they might be a bit more appreciative.

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I agree with Phantom, Get rid of Founder's Ranch. Then I would lower our yearly dues to pre-Founder's Ranch rates.

 

The second thing I would do is get rid of the short stroke advantage and require all rifles to have a stock throw. Pretty tough for me to keep up with the 73's and Marlins when my 92 has about twice the levering throw.

 

Oh, yeah. Rank scoring would go bye-bye for all State and higher matches.

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Give each shooter his/her own class

Give them their "1st" place trophy at sign in.

 

OR

 

Offer a "No time" class

That way the people who only shoot for fun wont have to be bothered with hearing the timer.

Offer a "The way it used to be class"

For those who think things were always better in the good old days

 

 

Sorry for coming off as such a smart $#% but seems most of the changes most are advocating seems like personal agendas, but I guess that is one of the perks of being CEO.

 

"Lets eliminate some classes...but we need to add ?? class". What would this solve? IF you really want to reduce the number of classes, just do it. I personally like having different classes available for me to compete in, though I only shoot one class, no matter what match or who I will have to compete against.

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Ok. You're elected CEO of SASS and given free rein. What would you change?

 

I'd raise the annual dues by $10 to give the CEO a raise. :rolleyes:

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You Sir, are a VERY wise man. ;)

 

As for me being King for a day; I'd make a rule that nobody is granted membership into SASS until the president of their prospective club sends a letter verifying that person has helped put on at least one match. If more people knew the amount of time and effort went into putting on even monthly matches, they might be a bit more appreciative.

 

And I would be your Queen. RP scoring would be abolished; Founder's Ranch would go away so the SASS dues could be more reasonable, or at least allow a payment plan for Lifetime memberships; Reduce the number of categories -- Men, women, young, old, one handed (Duelist), two handed (Traditional), Gunfighter; Don't allow anyone to ever say "Back when I first started in SASS...";

 

I'm sure there's more I'd change but the main thing is I'd make you the Supreme Ruler -- oh wait - I already get accused of spoiling you too much, so sorry, I could only make you my Master Reloader.

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And I would be your Queen. RP scoring would be abolished; Founder's Ranch would go away so the SASS dues could be more reasonable, or at least allow a payment plan for Lifetime memberships; Reduce the number of categories -- Men, women, young, old, one handed (Duelist), two handed (Traditional), Gunfighter; Don't allow anyone to ever say "Back when I first started in SASS...";

 

I'm sure there's more I'd change but the main thing is I'd make you the Supreme Ruler -- oh wait - I already get accused of spoiling you too much, so sorry, I could only make you my Master Reloader.

Uh oh,

 

Did you say Queen? :unsure:;)

 

You forgot one thing in the categories, black powder. Otherwise, you and I are in sync on the categories. Following are my suggestions. They looked better in a table; but, you get the idea.

Pistol Type/Shooting Style/Age Protected

BP

Smokeless

Two Handed

Men

Women

Duelist

Men

Women

GF

Men

Women

Frontiersman

Men

Women

Age Protected

Young Guns < 17

Male

Female

Elder > 70

Grand Dame > 70

 

12 x 2 = 24 categories

 

When I see Silver Seniors shooting Cowboy, it does not make me think the high end (at least younger than 70) needs protection. Although, I initially favored the change from Traditional and Modern and adding Silver Senior and other "older" categories, my favor for that is waning.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Ok. You're elected CEO of SASS and given free rein. What would you change?

 

Does there have to be 'change' - it hasn't worked all that well after the last general election. Nope, I don't trust 'change' - so I'd leave it alone :lol:

 

but...that's why I would never be qualified or able to be CEO of our great sport.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Does there have to be 'change' - it hasn't worked all that well after the last general election. Nope, I don't trust 'change' - so I'd leave it alone :lol:

 

but...that's why I would never be qualified or able to be CEO of our great sport.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

:D luv it!

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Uh oh,

 

Did you say Queen? :unsure:;)

 

You forgot one thing in the categories, black powder. Otherwise, you and I are in sync on the categories. Following are my suggestions. They looked better in a table; but, you get the idea.

Pistol Type/Shooting Style/Age Protected

BP

Smokeless

Two Handed

Men

Women

Duelist

Men

Women

GF

Men

Women

Frontiersman

Men

Women

Age Protected

Young Guns < 17

Male

Female

Elder > 70

Grand Dame > 70

 

12 x 2 = 24 categories

 

When I see Silver Seniors shooting Cowboy, it does not make me think the high end (at least younger than 70) needs protection. Although, I initially favored the change from Traditional and Modern and adding Silver Senior and other "older" categories, my favor for that is waning.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

If Philly is King for the day I would be his Queen.

 

You're right, I unintentionally left off BP. :o

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If Philly is King for the day I would be his Queen.

 

 

 

You're my Queen EVERY day. :wub:

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And watch the food fight begin from a safe distance.

 

Probably look like this.

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Allie Mo,

 

What about B-Western and Classic Cowboy? Are costume categories a no go?

 

Ultimately, the problem comes down to the age divisions in each of the shooting style categories. If we could get rid of that, except for the <17 and >70 groups, we could collapse the categories significantly.

 

That however would make a lot of people unhappy, and I mean a lot of people. When I look at the breakdowns of the NE Regional, one of the biggest matches with over 400 shooters, over 1/4 of the competitors end up in the 60 and over group. That is where the pressure comes from to have greater age divisions. About 1/5 of them are in costume catagories, 1/5 in shooting style catagories, and about 1/10 are in BP categories, and the rest, about 1/4, fall into the 17-59 group that is actually three categories at present.

 

I know we have heard it all before, but we are a shooting contest wrapped up in an entertainment business. If people are unhappy, they don't come back. In my opinion, the only way to address this is to reduce the number of Mandatory Categories to comply with your list (Including Costume Categories) and then have the age based categories be determined solely by registration numbers. At the smaller matches, the Mandatory Categories would probably be it. But at the larger matches, it will be a HUGE job for the match director. The MD won't have any idea as to the number of awards they need, until almost Match Day. They will have to have shooters list at least two preferences for category, and in the end, I don't think that you would see much of a change. In the particular example I am using, all of the categories that have less than 5 shooters, are in the protected categories you speak of.

 

 

Dogmeat (Who shoots the non-approved FCGF catagory, even in GF, just because he can) Dad

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Yes .org about sums it up. We are customers, not members. This is a great way to run a business and make money and the Wild Bunch came up with the framework and enjoys the success of what they have built. That is all well and good . . . to a point. You see as customers, we are not invested in the success of SASS or CAS. Maybe in the success of our personal clubs but not of the business. I see a lot of people donating time to a business. If SASS were an organization, I would donate my time and money, but I am no more likely to give the Wild Bunch anything of value than I am to give Walmart a big cash gift for letting me shop there.

 

So if it were to all drop in my lap, I'd cash out and make the organization into something that had the opportunity to truly grow and thrive as an entity of the shooters and for the shooters.

 

JMHO

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As a potential new member I was looking at the membership rates. CMSA offers a family membership at one price. Too bad SASS doesn't have a similar offer. I guess I'd offer a discounted family package to encourage more young folks and family involvement.

 

Bodine

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Ok. You're elected CEO of SASS and given free rein. What would you change?

I don't know you Possum Skinner, so I don't know if this post was to truly equip those "powers that be" with usefull suggestions, or to stir the proverbial "hornets nest". I personally would change how "I" veiw things. A match is as good as "I" make it. The best way for things to get a nudge in the direction I would like is for "ME" to get involved in setup, stagewriting,match operations, ect.

There are hard feelings surrounding Founders Ranch....there probably always will be...but here's the thing: "I" enjoy the venue at FR, as well as Tin Star Ranch, as well as Ben Avery Range for Winter Range...and there is the hillside range for the Thundermountain Shootist, as "I" know "I" will enjoy many other venues across this wide United States with my husband as we near retirement, and will hopefully visit some of the International venues. (Lesson here is it is up to "YOU", to enjoy...and if you don't enjoy the venue, find one you do...if you don't enjoy the sport anymore, find the one you do. It seems to me that those that can have created many changes to make folks happy, and yet....when will the changes be enough? I suggest writing a letter to those SASS in charge with suggestions, and include solutions with the letter...that is always a plus. God Bless, and hope to run across "You" enjoying this sport...."I" know "I" will!!! :)

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As a potential new member I was looking at the membership rates. CMSA offers a family membership at one price. Too bad SASS doesn't have a similar offer. I guess I'd offer a discounted family package to encourage more young folks and family involvement.

 

Bodine

Bodine, please take a second look...correct me if wrong, but you get a discounted rate for your spouse, and you pay only one (discounted) rate for child....then all other children fall under the umbrella. Most clubs offer a family membership, and most clubs don't charge for those 17 and under to shoot! Stick with it, doesn't have to break the bank. ^_^

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It looks to me lke each child regardless of age is the same additional rate. Still, at $145 a year (family of four), that's a bit more than I am willing to throw down for membership in any club or organization. $55 + 40 + 25x2 (and another $55 if my oldest son gets involved). Times are tough even when I have work. That's just a bit high for an old hillbilly to go.

 

By contrast, the only organization I belong to currently is the NMLRA @$53 a year for a full family membership. This includes all family members living at this adress, and gives the family one vote.

 

Bodine

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I don't know you Possum Skinner, so I don't know if this post was to truly equip those "powers that be" with usefull suggestions, or to stir the proverbial "hornets nest". I personally would change how "I" veiw things. A match is as good as "I" make it. The best way for things to get a nudge in the direction I would like is for "ME" to get involved in setup, stagewriting,match operations, ect.

There are hard feelings surrounding Founders Ranch....there probably always will be...but here's the thing: "I" enjoy the venue at FR, as well as Tin Star Ranch, as well as Ben Avery Range for Winter Range...and there is the hillside range for the Thundermountain Shootist, as "I" know "I" will enjoy many other venues across this wide United States with my husband as we near retirement, and will hopefully visit some of the International venues. (Lesson here is it is up to "YOU", to enjoy...and if you don't enjoy the venue, find one you do...if you don't enjoy the sport anymore, find the one you do. It seems to me that those that can have created many changes to make folks happy, and yet....when will the changes be enough? I suggest writing a letter to those SASS in charge with suggestions, and include solutions with the letter...that is always a plus. God Bless, and hope to run across "You" enjoying this sport...."I" know "I" will!!! :)

 

Well it's not all about..."I".

 

Hard feelings have nothing to do with FR problems. Some folks wish that was all there is to "it"...but the fact is that the venue isn't ever going to produce the non-shooting public attendence (therefore expanding the member base), that the old venue did.

 

The folks there do the best they can with what they've got...nice buildings...nice entertainment...but it's just my opinion that the game would benefit greatly with the premier CAS competition being held somewhere else.

 

PS: Possum Skinner is as good as a SASS/CAS memeber can be in all ways.

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Hard feelings have nothing to do with FR problems. Some folks wish that was all there is to "it"...but the fact is that the venue isn't ever going to produce the non-shooting public attendence (therefore expanding the member base), that the old venue did.

The folks there do the best they can with what they've got...nice buildings...nice entertainment...but it's just my opinion that the game would benefit greatly with the premier CAS competition being held somewhere else.

 

Phantom is EXACTLY right.

 

If we give benefit of a doubt to the claim that FR wanted to go to a more gun friendly location as one of the reasons for their move from California...

Okay , I guess we have to accept that.

 

But then you put it down in New Mexico? In the middle of nowhere?

 

I DETEST going to shoots in the middle of nowhere. EOT, WR, you shoot four stages a day for three days.

At most, we are on the shooting range for four hours.

What do you suggest we do for the other 20? And don't say go shopping, support the vendors.

There aint enough vendors at any event to make a dent in the time we spend there.

So we better be somewhere close to something entertaining and that aint Albuquerque.

 

But if you place it somewhere near an entertainment capital, with plenty of hotel rooms and cheap(er) air fare you might have a chance to attract a few more shooters.

If only we could think of someplace like that....

Hmm, Las Vegas and Orlando come to mind. New Mexico would have never made the list.

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I would say that some folks have little or no imagination, or personal initiative.......... Sorry, I simply can't relate that that kind of mentality. No wonder our kids grow up thinking the world owes them daily light show!

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Smokey Shane, good post.... DEFINITELY PROMOTE CAS TO YOUNG SHOOTERS and work harder to bringing them into our sport.

 

p.s. Good Friend Possum Skinner has put many hours into promoting CAS in two area Cowboy Clubs, writing stages and seems to be tireless in helping new shooters all the time.

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I would say that some folks have little or no imagination, or personal initiative.......... Sorry, I simply can't relate that that kind of mentality. No wonder our kids grow up thinking the world owes them daily light show!

 

Mentality...?

 

:wacko:

 

It's not about the shooters, it's about the non-shooters that you want to turn into shooters. Did you go to EoT when it was in So.Cal? If you did, then you would know what I'm talking about. If not, then you have no reference point.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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