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Errol Plain

Probably a dumb BP question

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Is there much of a difference in how clean (relativly speaking!) 2F and 3F (Goex) burn? I think I read that 3F was a little cleaner but don't remember where I read that. My 66 gets a little fussy after about three stages (full case 2F, 45 LC, 250 gr Big Lube). I hit the carrier with a little Ballistol/water and it's good to go but just wondered if it is possible for it to be (slightly!) cleaner with 3F. To try and help with the blow-back, I only resize the portion of the case where the bullet is seated.

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Goex 3F is a little cleaner. I use it for cartridges and use 2F for shotshells.

 

No doubt some substitute users will chime in and tell you how clean the subs are.

Ignore them. They are vexations of the spirit. :lol:

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With Goex you probably won't be able to see any meaningful difference in "clean" between 2f and 3f. The important thing is the lube and you say you are using a Big Lube bullet so you should be OK as far as lube. Never hurts to try, but you might see a little improvement with 3f in your rifle because the 3f grains are smaller and will pack more tightly in the case. This might increase pressure just enough to help seal the chamber and cut back on the blow back. A lot of people do what you do, a squirt of Ballistol every three or four stages just to keep the fouling soft and to keep things operating. Sounds like you are doing the right things.

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NOT a "dum" question at all ;)

I load 3F Goex for all my BP needs. That includes .45-90.

3F does burn cleaner and you have higher MV. My .45-90 crono's at 1350 fps with a 540 gn. Paul Jones bullet.

Cheers,

LG

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I use Goex FFg for EVERYTHING - especially since I don't shoot anything under .44 caliber. It's a great all around powder for my pistol, rifle, shotgun needs and I haven't noticed any difference in cleaning between FFg and FFFG. They both clean up equally with hot water ;)

 

For CAS..the 'extra' muzzle velocity you get from FFFg is minor and not needed.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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One of your problems is the .45 Colt case, which allows more blow-by than .44-40. Since switching caliber is probably not an option, try Scheutzen or Graff's (same product, different label). 3F or 2F, it will burn slightly cleaner than Goex, for about the same price.

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Hey EP. I have 45 Colt and 44-40 setups. Don't shoot BP in 45 Colt, too dirty compared to 44-40. If you want a permanent fix, change calibers. ;):D

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44-40 would be better, I know. But I'm pretty much stuck with what I have (unless somebody out there has a 73 in 44-40 for about 500 bucks! :lol: ) Ah well, I can live with cleaning it a bit every few stages. I will try some 3F rounds next weekend. Thanks to everybody for the input.

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LUBE....more LUBE. In my .45 Colt I used either 2F Goex or Goex Cartridge whichever I had on hand. I left room for 1/8" grease cookie (50/50 crisco/beeswax) and a card wad between the lube and powder. I can shot a 6 stage match without touching the gun except load and shoot.

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Hi Eli: I tried that (lube cookie) and didn't seem to make a spec of difference. As I found out on a fifth stage when I didn't hit one rifle taget... :blush: I do use the card wad. And that still doesn't address the blowback issue (does it? or am I missing something else?). I've been doing this for 6 or 7 years now and just squirt a bit of Ballistol and run a patch thru after 2 or 3 stages. I am always intrigued by those of you who can shoot all day and never have a problem. Can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

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I think guns are kinda like snowflakes, each one is unique to a certain extent. Once you find out what makes yours operate reliably, just stick with it. Having confidence that it will work in a match is better than trying to conform to an "accepted" regimen that your gun might not like so much...

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I don't think the miniscule cleaning differences between the 2 powders is a big deal. An extra swipe or minute to soak isn't that big of a deal to me.

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Heee Haaa Errol..Try sizeing that 45 250 grainer to .454.. ^_^ and a little tighter crimp.. :rolleyes: when I was shootin my 92 I used a Lee Factory crimp Die???? ^_^ All that seemed ta Help with the blowby... ;)

 

Heee Haaa Crazy Mingo :wacko::wacko::FlagAm: Oh ya ta answer your question NO you'll won' be able to tell the differance...

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J-Bar, I think you are correct. I have a system that works and I shouldn't try to "fix" it.

 

Mingo, I do use the 454 bullets. I think I will try a slight adjustment on the crimp. That had been under consideration.

 

Mainly, I just wondered if the different powders had much variation. Sounds like some, but not much. I will keep playing and learning. It's too much fun to do otherwise! Thanks again to all.

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Hi Eli: I tried that (lube cookie) and didn't seem to make a spec of difference. As I found out on a fifth stage when I didn't hit one rifle taget... :blush: I do use the card wad. And that still doesn't address the blowback issue (does it? or am I missing something else?). I've been doing this for 6 or 7 years now and just squirt a bit of Ballistol and run a patch thru after 2 or 3 stages. I am always intrigued by those of you who can shoot all day and never have a problem. Can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

 

Missing targets is a whole different animal from blow-by fouling the carrier -- you've got a fouled bore! Here's a trick (don't try this with smokeless) which helps keep a BP bore from fouling out: Carry a can of PAM cooking spray in your cart, and give a squirt down the muzzle after each stage. Added bonus: the first shot of each stage smells buttery fresh. :)

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Hi Wrangler, yeah I understand there are two different problems. When Eli brought up extra lube, I kind of changed horses mid-stream. Running the patch thru takes care of the accuracy issue and a couple squirts of Ballistol takes care of the (slight) binding issue. I had tried the lube cookies and not cleaning the bore, but the result was not good! So I clean it every couple of stages and everything is good. I also use a blow tube when it's really dry. Hey, what's the fun of shooting BP without the occasional "issue" :lol: !

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Some other thoughts, longer barls run out of lube sometimes and might even cap the pressure a mite longer, APP is self lubing and the residue is supposed to be slick also and las but not least, you might find someone who wants to trade a 44-40 for a 45Colt in a '73.

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Give Schuetzen a try, burns much cleaner than Goex for the same price. Or as Bob said you might find a 44/40 to trade, problem solved. Good Luck :)

 

Jefro :ph34r: Realx-Enjoy

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I've been shooting Goex 2F and 3F (and Cartridge, and Cowboy) Blackpowder for 7 years now. As far as cleaning, none has any advantage. All of them crud up my firerms equally. It's blackpowder. You gotta' deal with it. I love it, but you gotta' clean it.

 

Coop

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Errol, there are 3 elements loading a straight wall case than minimizes, not eliminates, blowback whether the powder is 1F - 2F or 3F:

* The energy is kept high as a factor of velocity - your full cases as an example

* Pressure can be kept high with a hard crimp on the bullet. Hard definition can be measured by the number of whacks it takes to pull a bullet using a kinetic puller. Eight to 10 whacks is hard

* A 454 bullet will seal the case against the chamber wall better than a 452 to reduce blowback

On additional factor - short length cases that don't extend fully to the end of the cartridge length in the chamber will allow gases to blowback more so than a correct length case

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Errol,

Good to see you are well and still shooting. I just parted with a Marlin 45 Colt because of blow back and I was shooting smokeless. Just got tired of getting a face full of it every shot. I did all those things to reduce blowback but didn't correct the problem. Sold the 45 and for a few beans more picked up a Marlin in 44/40. Haven't had the chance to shoot it yet but everyone says thats the way to go. Since you shoot BP all the time I'd sure consider a swap if n I were you. Life is too short to mess with minor problems if you don't have to. Hope to see ya at a shoot soon.

 

DMJ

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When I was shooting .38 Marlin I found after a few stages it would get sticky and would just give a squirt of Ballistol and run a brush and a patch and it was good to go.Now shooting 44-40 and just shoot the gun.Even the brass looks cleaner after shooting.I use Goex 2ff for shotgun and pistol and rifle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sgt H :FlagAm:

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Keep using your FFg, but switch to 250 grain Big Lube bullets, available on line ifn ya don't cast your own.

 

Fill the case with BP and add bullet, no need for anything else. My .45 caliber '92 will run for six or eight stages with no need for anything but loading and pulling the trigger. The fouling stays soft using soft lube or SPG. I cast my own and use a beeswax and Crisco mix.

 

Doc McGee

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I shot 45 Colt with Goex 2F for over a year in SASS matches and never had a problem. I used Big Lube bullets but also some custom made moulds to cast my own. The original 45 Colt bullet was of the same design as the Lyman 454190. Over the years Lyman has made these lube grooves smaller. If you cast then you may buy a mould from Accurate Moulds that is a three cavity for around $120 TYD. The best thing to do with your 45 Colt cases is to anneal the case necks and then load with at least 35 or so grs of 2F. You don't need 3 F as it will produce more speed and recoil. The secret is to seal that chamber from the blowback. My 92 could shoot 6-7 stages without any brush or patch cleaning. The straight walled case requires a little more work and you must fire full loads. If you try shooting light loads the chamber will become fouled very fast. If you anneal the cases you may be able to load them at least three times before repeating. I could spray the bore with a heavy load of Moosemilk and then run the bronze brush about 4-5 times. I then ran a soaking patch followed by a bore snake and was looking at a shiney bore.Stay with the 2F but when you have a chance try some Diamondback as I've found it to be cleaner anbd cheaper for SASS.

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Goex 3F is a little cleaner. I use it for cartridges and use 2F for shotshells.

 

No doubt some substitute users will chime in and tell you how clean the subs are.

Ignore them. They are vexations of the spirit. :lol:

You do have a way with words Bob.

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Errol, there are 3 elements loading a straight wall case than minimizes, not eliminates, blowback whether the powder is 1F - 2F or 3F:

* The energy is kept high as a factor of velocity - your full cases as an example

* Pressure can be kept high with a hard crimp on the bullet. Hard definition can be measured by the number of whacks it takes to pull a bullet using a kinetic puller. Eight to 10 whacks is hard

* A 454 bullet will seal the case against the chamber wall better than a 452 to reduce blowback

On additional factor - short length cases that don't extend fully to the end of the cartridge length in the chamber will allow gases to blowback more so than a correct length case

annealing the cases will help also

Jasper

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One more stright wall blow back reduction tip: "neck" or partial resize the case. With sufficent pressure and bullet weight on first firing the case will expand to fit the chamber so on reloading it looks like a 44/40. Works for me!

 

Fordyce

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I'm shooting a Rossi 92 and 2 Vaquero's in .45 colt with 15 grains of BP and cous cous as a filler (I know; gamer load :rolleyes: ) without blowback problems. My sizer die is reamed out to .472 and I use a rollcrimp on my 200 grain biglube bullet. They just fit the Rugers and expand a little in the Rossi. One load for all.

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Guest max morgan 75

howdy,

 

i shoot a 30" uberti 1873 rifle with bp 45 LC loads comprised of nearly a full case of 2fg lidu (cheap chinese bp) a wonder wad and a big lube groove 250 gr .454 boolit. never had a problem with fouling or anything. the rifle does get a bit greasy however with all the lube available.

 

keep it simple.

 

max

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3F can be a "little" cleaner than 2. But... don't let the naysayers get ya down... I've been shooting a .45Colt '73 in this game since 1986. Two tricks: 1- clearance the carrier a tad bit more... mine has about .060 on both sides... takes a LOT of fouling to gum up the works; 2- Crimp... well and truly.

 

I didn't use a BigLube™ boolit til last year... and still haven't even run them much. My regular RCBS 225-45-CAV bullet holds enough lube so... but, really, make sure your lube is correct for BP.

 

My '73 can run 2 days, or about 10 stages without cleaning, (my Uberti Henry's carrier is quite a bit tighter in the mortise, and it's still giving me fits, depending on the day, has gummed up before one stage is over).

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