Breaking apart Shotgun shells for reloading powder

[Quiet Burp]

G'day all,

My powder stocks are declining. There have been some recent large shipments and more incoming, but being rural I'm low down on the totem pole of ever seeing any whilst there are these shortages. Federal primers, Fiocchi, White River have filtered out now far and wide to gunshops and shelves are groaning under the weight of them so hopefully powder will eventually as well. 

 

Hearing on the grapevine that some fella's have resorted to breaking apart shotgun shells for reloading powder.

 

$110 for a slab of shells

Roughly 20grs of powder per shell = 5,000 grs

Average .38 load for 125gr pill - 3.0grs

So for $110 that roughly equals = 1,666 reloads + lead to make pills.

So around 0.07c per reload (if my maths is correct)

 

Now that's not that bad considering what folks are selling powder for (and getting) for half used containers!!!!

 

My question is and where I need the advice ( I have a chronograph) is how would one start off reloading with an unknow shotgun powder and building up a load?

 

My plan is to buy bulk slabs so that I have bulk the same type of fast burning powder that was used to make the shells. 

 

Any suggestions on the best way to build up a load would be appreciated, 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

I wouldn't do it 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

40 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said:

how would one start off reloading with an unknow shotgun powder and building up a load?

One wouldn't.

[Quiet Burp]

 

Its not something that one would wanna' do, but because of necessity.

 

Walked into so many gunshops in my travels the last 6 months enquiring about pistol powder and the comments are all "Do what everyone else is doing breakdown shotgun shells".

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

 

13 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said:

the comments are all "Do what everyone else is doing breakdown shotgun shells".

 

Some of the worse advice going.  Because factories load with non-canister powder (stuff that is not available to reloaders) made cheaply and only to a particular performance specification, which they would not "tell their mother on their death bed."

 

If you were to use it in low pressure pistol cartridges, there's PROBABLY minimum risk.  Because you can fairly well watch for pressure signs in cartridge loads.  In shotshells, it would be a lot like playing Russian Roulette, since the max safe pressures are very low, and plastic hulls  and shotshell primers do not let you see accurate pressure signs.

 

Probably lots better to switch to Black Powder or subs.

 

good luck, GJ

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Deleted because the OP is in Australia.  GJ's suggestion to use black powder is reasonable.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

There are several shooters from Australia that frequent the wire.  I would get in contact with one or two of them and see what they are doing.

[Quiet Burp]

 

Its not something that anyone wants to have to do  

 

 

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17069

 

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17084

 

https://enoughgun.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16885

 

 

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Well, if you think that is your only route forward, then that's what you think.  Don't understand what you are asking us for if several experienced reloaders give you the same conclusions.

 

One load suggestion I saw in one of those citations is down right guaranteed to be dangerous......20 grains of "some shotgun powder" to load a pistol cartridge.......yikes!

 

Guess in this part of the world we're fortunate to have at least some options other than waiting for situation to get better. 

 

good luck, GJ

[Quiet Burp]

5 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

  Don't understand what you are asking us for if several experienced reloaders give you the same conclusions.

 

 

 

G'day Garrison Joe, I was hoping experienced reloaders reading the predicament and understanding the situation for some us and that 'if' they had no other option if they wanted to keep enjoying their sport, what would be some educated suggestions and methods to work up a load. 

 

I'm quite sure that if there was a drought of pistol/shotgun powders in the U.S as there currently is here for a lot of us (but not all, some people have 10x lifetimes squirreled away) folks would be breaking down shot shells to reuse the fast powder in cartridge reloading to keep on shooting and enjoying the sport. 

[Leroy Luck]

Is factory cowboy ammo an option for you? Or is it hard to get like powder is?

[Rye Miles #13621]

Why not just shoot the shells you plan on taking apart? 

[Leroy Luck]

4 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

Why not just shoot the shells you plan on taking apart? 

 

He’s wanting to reuse the shotshell powder for pistol loading

[Bison Bud]

I'd have to say that I would have to be pretty desperate to tear down factory shot shells for the powder to load my handgun ammo.  These are difficult times and apparently it's even more difficult in Australia and I feel your pain.  However, this isn't a good idea for many reasons and at least over here in the USA powder is now readily available.  Surely, there are some usable propellants available over there too, you just have to be in the right place at the right time I guess.  Do they allow mail order of reloading components in Australia, as that could be an easy solution.  I just don't know what the rules are over there.

 

As for where to start using powder recovered from shot shells and not knowing what propellant I am actually using, I'd be a bit scared to touch off those first few rounds!  Most shotgun propellants do make good handgun target loads, but not knowing the burn rate would make me more than just a bit nervous.  Just too many variables to work with.  If you simply must, I'd start with a very low charge and work up from there using a chronograph to check each load and frankly, you'd probably waste more primers doing this then would be worth the effort.  Good luck, be safe, and good shooting to all!

[Chantry]

12 hours ago, Quiet Burp said:

 

Its not something that one would wanna' do, but because of necessity.

 

Walked into so many gunshops in my travels the last 6 months enquiring about pistol powder and the comments are all "Do what everyone else is doing breakdown shotgun shells".

 

 

Without knowing the burn rates of the powder you risk destroying the gun and injuring yourself and possibly others.  And while I would need to check my reloading manuals, 20 grains of any smokeless powder seems a lot for a pistol caliber SASS load.

 

Either factory ammo, if available, or a black powder substitute would be a safer choice.  Blowing up a gun and getting hurt is a lot more expensive.

 

 

[Cholla]

Hornady is on record as stating they have multiple powders they use for any one cartridge load, just so they have the ability to keep making and selling product. What powder they are using can change from lot to lot. You can’t assume it’s the same powder. I am another reloader have Hornady Precision Hunter 7 PRC. We both pulled the loads on a few. Mine appeared to be StaBall HD, a flattened ball powder, and his appeared to be RL-26, a stick powder. Both were new purchases. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

5 minutes ago, Cholla said:

Hornady is on record as stating they have multiple powders they use for any one cartridge load, just so they have the ability to keep making and selling product. What powder they are using can change from lot to lot. You can’t assume it’s the same powder. I am another reloader have Hornady Precision Hunter 7 PRC. We both pulled the loads on a few. Mine appeared to be StaBall HD, a flattened ball powder, and his appeared to be RL-26, a stick powder. Both were new purchases. 

Many factory used powders, are not available on the retail market. 

Just because it looks like a certain name brand of powder, doesn't mean it is. 

NEVER, EVER, GUESS.......

 

[Taos]

Heck, if I were an Aussie and that was my only choice to continue to shoot, I'd do it.

 

Assuming the volunteer shot shell is a 12ga.:  20gr of powder in a Cowboy 12ga load is kinda hot, but not hot for a hunting load.  From that I "assume" the powder used is nothing unusual.  Shot shell powder is used a lot in light cowboy pistol and rifle loads.

You already know the powder is a shotshell powder, it's not something like H110 or similar.  

If the volunteer powder is not a flake powder I would maybe do a little more investigation.  

 

Say a .38 load; we know 3gr of any noteworthy pistol or shotgun powder will work.

I'd start with 1 gr of the unknown powder, I very much doubt it would cause any problem other than a squib.

Then work up .5gr at a time from there to get a comfortable load.  

You said you had a chronograph so tracking velocity should not be a problem.

 

Of course we all know what the first three letters in "assume" are.

 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

When I first started shooting 40-ish or so years ago, I ended up with a bunch of 12 gauge shells which were a little too big for my 20 gauge that I reloaded for so I decided to cut them open, pop out the primer and repurpose the shot and the powder for reloading my 20 gauge.
They were paper shells and different vintages but from the same manufacturer and had all been stored well, but when I started cutting them open I ended up with at least three different looking powders for reasons I could never figure out.  I have no way of knowing if that might still be an issue, but even at that young and tender age I decided that saving a few pennies wasn’t worth trying to sort all that out.

I totally understand the position you’re in though. Have you considered trying to make your own black powder? I think I would be more inclined to do that then mess with random  shotgun shell powders

[Cinch]

Ya might luck out and it’s Clays or Universal. CAS shooters often use a very small dose of shotshell powder.

 

A very small dose! Such a small dose that the smallest bullet obtainable is barely moving while traveling 9 feet to the target.

 

 

Be careful 

[Quiet Burp]

Reckon I'll load up some .38's with my 125gr pills using 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2,8 & 3.0 grs of the shotgun powder and put them over a chronograph, stop at the grs where I'm happy with the fps. 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

40 minutes ago, Quiet Burp said:

Reckon I'll load up some .38's with my 125gr pills using 2.2, 2.4, 2.6, 2,8 & 3.0 grs of the shotgun powder and put them over a chronograph, stop at the grs where I'm happy with the fps. 

Please post your results!  

[Rye Miles #13621]

13 hours ago, Leroy Luck said:

He’s wanting to reuse the shotshell powder for pistol loading

Okay I misread what he was saying. 

[Silver Creek Jack]

11 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Please post your results!  

If you still have fingers to type!

[Orient Express]

There was a shooter on the Australian single action FB page that did what you are doing and posted the results. I'll try to find it.

[Silver Creek Jack]

20 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Well, if you think that is your only route forward, then that's what you think.  Don't understand what you are asking us for if several experienced reloaders give you the same conclusions.

 

One load suggestion I saw in one of those citations is down right guaranteed to be dangerous......20 grains of "some shotgun powder" to load a pistol cartridge.......yikes!

 

Guess in this part of the world we're fortunate to have at least some options other than waiting for situation to get better. 

 

good luck, GJ

Always sage advise from this cowboy!

[Quiet Burp]

14 minutes ago, Orient Express said:

There was a shooter on the Australian single action FB page that did what you are doing and posted the results. I'll try to find it.

 

Thanks, appreciated.

[watab kid]

ive worked part time at a gun range for over 18 years and my friend and i have been reclaiming components from faulty shot shells for most of that time , the one thing we dont reuse is the powder - we do have a bit of fun with it around the fire sometimes , but not knowing what your working with makes reloading unsafe , 

[Painted Mohawk SASS 77785]

Quiet Burp is correct in saying that some Aussie pistol shooters are breaking down new shotgun shells to use in their pistols. Basically shotgun/pistol powder is non existent on the shelves here, Vitavori is coming in small shipments & the prices can be from $120  LB.

A website 'Used Guns Australia' had 2 KG  [ 4 1/2 LB ] of AS30 [Clays ] for.....wait for it !!!!!!!!   $ 1750..that's how stupid it is, shooters gouging shooters..terrible !! A shooter I spoke to was buying a particular brand of shell, breaking them down, selling wads,shot & primers and loading between 1000 -1300 pistol loads depending on the caliber, he was advised of what brand of power was in the original shells so was comfortable with what he was doing..the problem arose where a different powder was later used & he didn't know what it was.

It is not something I would do but then I'm fortunate that I have a supply of powder..however I do understand those that are taking that path and really if you are an experienced reloader you should be able to navigate through it  without damage to yourself or guns. Recently new shotgun shells were $125- $135...next shipment we are being told $145- $160 depending on brand...some are fetching up to $220 !!!!!!

 

 

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Quiet Burp, I have been doing this for a while, I'm surprised at the amount of negativity against doing this but it has proven quite safe and ok for me.

I have used the following shotgun shells and their powder to make pistol and rifle loads.

At present my standard load that I have been using for years is pistol 2.9 gns of TB (of course if you can get it ) with a 125 gr TC bullet, for rifle I use the same powder but with a 158gr TC bullet. Both burn pretty clean without a detail clean between each shoot.

With shotgun powder I made up the following loads and tested the rifle rounds.

I used 3.0 gns in each one and chronographed five of each and the figures stated are the average outputs.

1] Winchester 909.8 ft/sec gives 143.8 pf

2] Claybuster 887,4 ft/sec gives 140.2 pf

3] Bronzewing 777.6 ft/sec gives 122.8 pf

4] Remington 844.8 ft/sec gives 133.5 pf

 

Current load

5] AP50 3.0 gr 779.8 to 799.8 ft/sec gives 123.1 to 126.3 pf

6] Trail Boss 2.9 gns is 696.4ft/sec gives 110 pf.

 

So you can go from there, just make a load close to what you are using now and you should be fine.

I also tested some in 44 Russian using a 165 rnfp bullet with different powder loads, results are thus.

1] AS50 4.0 gr 621.0 ft/sec gives 102.4 pf

2] Unique 3.5 gr 421ft/sec gives 69.5 pf

3] Unique 4.0 gr 535 ft/sec gives 88.3 pf

4] AS50 3.5 gr 545ft/sec gives 89.9 pf

5] Claybuster 3.5 gr 895ft/sec gives 147.6 pf

6] Claybuster 4.0 gr 952ft/sec gives 157 pf

7] Bronzewing 3.9 gr 700 ft/sec gives 115.5 pf

8] Wano 3f black 13 gr 725ft/sec gives 119.6 pf

 

I'll add a video about the cutting of the shells, it's on my phone so I have to go there.

Cheers.

Jack.

[Quiet Burp]

Thank you @Jackaroo, # 29989 the information above is absolutely GOLD

 

Appreciate very much you taking the time out to post that.

 

Huge thanks again. 

 

[Quiet Burp]

Lucked out an got 10lb of Vihtovouri N320 from a large shipment coming into Oz mid June.

[watab kid]

there you go , good things come to those ...........