Navy Ship Runs a Ground

[Texas Lizard]

How can this happen???

 

foxnews.com/world/us-navys-19000-ton-cargo-ship-runs-aground-bahrain

 

Texas Lizard

[Subdeacon Joe]

Inaccurate charts?

[Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372]

Well, someone is now looking for a new job....

[Pat Riot]

31 minutes ago, Redleg Reilly, SASS #46372 said:

Well, someone is now looking for a new job....

And has a nifty new nickname. 

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

Ships have been running aground, colliding with each other and sinking in storms for millenia.  I do not understand the question.

[Sedalia Dave]

2 hours ago, Texas Lizard said:

How can this happen???

 

foxnews.com/world/us-navys-19000-ton-cargo-ship-runs-aground-bahrain

 

Texas Lizard

 

It happens because of poor / incompetent leadership. It is rare that the problem is the fault of the enlisted sailor at the helm. Yes he/she was at the controls, however when things like this occur the root cause is either poor training or senior leadership issues commands that deviate from established procedures. 

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

7 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

It happens because of poor / incompetent leadership. It is rare that the problem is the fault of the enlisted sailor at the helm. Yes he/she was at the controls, however when things like this occur the root cause is either poor training or senior leadership issues commands that deviate from established procedures. 

That’s what the Navy said in its initial report. 

[Barry Sloe]

Back in the day I was on a FFG pulling into Jakarta, Indonesia.  There was another FFG following us up the river.

I was new on the ship and had been assigned as Safety Officer on the bridge (my true station was over seeing the operation of the main engines, but that's another story). 

As we went up the channel I heard a lot of comments about old charts, taking lots of bearings, etc.

Part way up the channel we had to make a Hard right turn. We made the turn and continued to the pier. As we were approaching the pier we received a call from the other FFG, they had run aground. We found out later that they had not been taking the bearings as we were, they were simply following in our wake. After about 2 hours they were able to get themselves unstuck.  The CO was relieved, he is responsible for the ship. The XO was relieved because he was in charge of the watch bill and training. There were personnel standing watch in the wrong areas and some standing watch that were not qualified for that position. Lots of other punishment passed out, those were the two main ones.

One bright spot, after that incident I was never told to go to the bridge. I stood my watch down below. 

 

The good old days, 

Barry Sloe 

[Chantry]

1 hour ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

It happens because of poor / incompetent leadership. It is rare that the problem is the fault of the enlisted sailor at the helm. Yes he/she was at the controls, however when things like this occur the root cause is either poor training or senior leadership issues commands that deviate from established procedures. 

 

It was a United States Naval Ship, so it was a civilian crew.

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

To see how the military of today compares to yesteryear...

 

In 1906, Ensign Nimitz commanded the USS Decatur, an old destroyer which he ran aground. Although found guilty at a court-martial for “hazarding” a Navy ship, the admiral who signed his first report stated, “This is a good officer and will take more care in the future.”

 

[Barry Sloe]

1 hour ago, Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 said:

 

In 1906, Ensign Nimitz 

“This is a good officer and will take more care in the future.”

 

On one of my ships a Lieutenant had been Officer of the Deck (different ship) when it was involved in a collision at sea. His fault. He wasn't getting promoted but he was still in. His uncle was an Admiral. 

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

3 hours ago, Chantry said:

 

It was a United States Naval Ship, so it was a civilian crew.

Yes, civil servants.

[Cactus Jack Calder]

Entering Guantanamo Bay, Cuba

 

I served on board the USS Guadalcanal LPH-7 1968 - 1970. During that time the ship served as Flagship for Amphibious Squadron 10 in the Caribbean Sea. One of our ports of call was Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. To enter the port it was necessary to navigate a channel surrounded by mines. A Harbor Pilot came aboard to supervise the navigation of the channel.

 

Now to the exciting part. The Guadalcanal had one screw and one rudder. The rudder was controlled by hydraulic rams powered by large electric motors in a compartment designated “After Stearing”. There were two independent feeds of electric power to After Stearing that were controlled by a large hand operated switch. The switch had three positions, source #1, source #2 and off. This allowed the rudder to be controlled from either electric source or manually locked into position as needed. An Electrician’s Mate and a Machinist Mate were assigned on a duty watch in After Stearing as long as the ship was underway.

 

As the Guadalcanal maneuvered through the Guantanamo channels an alarm bell sounded in After Stearing. An inexperienced Electrician’s Mate (Not Me) had been assigned to the watch. He panicked and attempted to transfer power to source #2, but instead turned the switch to the off position. The ship had lost the ability to control its direction. Alarms sounded through out the ship as we drifted towards the edge of the safe channel. Several men of the E Dept. hot footed it down to After Stearing, including me. We managed to get stearing restored in time. The upshot was at our level the Electrician was passed over for advancement and subjected to extensive retraining. What happened on the Officer level I never knew.

 

Exciting Times!
 

CJ

[Badlands Bob #61228]

The military calls it "loss of confidence" when they fire an officer for something that went wrong.  Sort of a career ending catch all for "somebody's gotta take the blame for it".

[Pat Riot]

Sorry this is long…
 

I serve aboard the USS Virginia CGN-38. I met my ship in the Philippines after my “C” school - Mk 26 GMLS (guided missile launching system). This was August 1, 1980. My ship was assigned to the Indian Ocean Battle Group 2. The mission of this battle group was to be in station near Iran during the Jimmy Carter “I have no balls” Iranian Hostage crisis. 
My ship had been in dry dock in the PI for a couple of months having the sonar dome replaced. During that time another ship had to take up the slack and was assigned in the Virginia’s place to the battle group. 
The reason the Virginia was in Dry Dock was the Commander in charge of the Weapons Department aboard ship, my boss’ boss’ boss, was the bridge officer during an anchoring at one of the Pacific island harbors (I cannot remember the island’s name). This numb-nuts gave the order to drop anchor while the ship was still moving forward. The entire bridge crew immediately warned the Commander that he was making a mistake and he loudly dressed them all down with threats of Captain’s Mast if they didn’t obey. They did. The anchor hit the water, the ship’s sonar dome hit the anchor nearly tearing it off then the flooding alarm went up. The Virginia limped into Subic Bay for repairs. 
This was Strike 1 for this Commander. 
 

My ship sailed with the USS Eisenhower CVN-69 “The Ike” and the USS South Carolina CGN-37. Most of the time we’re were off on our own and the SoCar stayed with the Ike, but occasionally during this IO Cruise we would get together and do drills and evolutions. One such evolution was a towing drill. This was 4 months after leaving the PI. 
We were to tow the SoCar then they would tow us. Good practice (hard work) for towing another ship and it wasn’t quite the same as line handling for berthing a ship at a dock or pier. 
Guess who was commanding the bridge while the Captain and XO stood as monitors of the evolution? You guessed it, the WEPS Commander, Commander Numbnuts. 
Both ships came to a dead stop and lines were passed as the Virginia made ready at a safe distance for towing.  All lines were secured. The SoCar’s engines were on standby but could be brought into action if needed (Thank God). 
The towing exercise commenced and we began towing the SoCar. Lines make some strange noise when tensioned while mooring. They make even more weird noises when towing a 9,500 Ton ship. 
If I remember correctly the goal was to reach 15 knots then maintain that speed to see how the Virginia performed. We reached that speed per bridge announcements over the 1MC (PA) and boy you could here the engines sing and you could feel the vibrations standing on the fantail. It was quite an event. 

EVERYTHING I write now happened in seconds.

All of a sudden the ship’s engines cutout, the vibrations stopped, the lines slacked and officers and Chiefs started yelling. The SoCar was bearing down on us. The Collision alarm went up on the SoCar followed by ours. On the fantail of our ship it was controlled pandemonium. 
Capstans turned relieving line tension, orders were being shouted on the SoCar to release the lines. We could here them almost as loudly as we heard our Officers and Chief.

The SoCar went hard starboard.

The lines fell into the water as we on deck began pulling lines.

The SoCar’s bow came over our starboard fantail. The ship was leaning hard accelerating. Our ship accelerated.

Everyone in charge was screaming orders “Retrieve those lines! RETREIVE THOSE LINES!”

The fear is the lines would tangle in our screws or the SoCar’s screw. Either one spelt disaster. 
The SoCar, still turning and accelerating passed by our starboard fantail within just feet. If a guy on our ship held out his hand a guy on the SoCar could have reached out and slapped him five.

Then our capstan died. “Oh S***”!

You haven’t lived until you have heaved 6” water logged mooring lines. Sailors were working so feverishly hard people were throwing up on the deck. It was about 95F that day. It was warm and toasty work. 

 

Epilogue:

The reason this near collision occurred was that Commander Numbnuts gave the order “Engines back two-thirds”. The helm argued and the Commander began yelling threats. The helmsman obliged thus setting off a near disaster. Commander Numbnuts froze when the SoCar initiated “Collision Alert”.
Our Captain took over immediately when it was realized what that over educated moron did. 
 

The next day “Flight Quarters” was called. I went to the armory and got my M14 and headed up to the motor whaleboat. The whaleboat is always manned for flight quarters in case a chopper goes down and we need to rescue survivors. My job was to use the M14 to keep sharks away from swimmers and rescuers by shooting away from the swimmer to attract the sharks to the bullets hitting the water. 
 

The helo from the Ike landed and with zero fanfare Commander Numbnuts left the ship and was flown away. 
We were never told what happened to him. His name, which I have decided to leave out of this story, was rarely if ever mentioned again aboard our ship. We referred to him as Commander Numbnuts. 
 

Oh, and one more thing. This is the same moron that had “Swim Call” announced on a HOT Sunday afternoon. Myself and a few other Gunners Mates hit the armory for M14s. There was no way in hell I was going in that water. Why not spend the afternoon in shorts and sneakers toting a bitchin’ rifle watching for sharks? 
Swim Call was canceled by a call over the 1MC by none other than Captain Ailes. 
Every man eating, ferocious and poisonous type sea creature on the planet resides in the Indian Ocean. Commander Numbnuts does it again…and I didn’t get to shoot my M14 yet again that day…

[Black Angus McPherson]

6 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

 

The lines fell into the water as we on deck began pulling lines.

The SoCar’s bow came over our starboard fantail. The ship was leaning hard accelerating. Our ship accelerated.

Everyone in charge was screaming orders “Retrieve those lines! RETREIVE THOSE LINES!”

The fear is the lines would tangle in our screws or the SoCar’s screw. Either one spelt disaster. 
The SoCar, still turning and accelerating passed by our starboard fantail within just feet. If a guy on our ship held out his hand a guy on the SoCar could have reached out and slapped him five.

 

 

I'm a little confused.  If the "SoCar" was being towed by your ship, why would it be accelerating towards your ship if it was trying to avoid a collision?

If the "SoCar" was bearing down on your ship as a result of your ships engines being reversed I can completely understand why your ship would try to accelerate away.  I just really don't understand what positive effect accelerating INTO a collision could have.

 

It sounds like the lines were already loose.

Could you please explain?

 

Angus

[Pat Riot]

1 hour ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

 

I'm a little confused.  If the "SoCar" was being towed by your ship, why would it be accelerating towards your ship if it was trying to avoid a collision?

If the "SoCar" was bearing down on your ship as a result of your ships engines being reversed I can completely understand why your ship would try to accelerate away.  I just really don't understand what positive effect accelerating INTO a collision could have.

 

It sounds like the lines were already loose.

Could you please explain?

 

Angus

When a ship backs off power it slows. Plus the load slows it.
 The ship in tow proceeds forward at the rate of speed it was pretty much at when in tow. 
They steered starboard and brought their engines up and accelerated to push against the rudder to steer using the water being pushed by the screws. 

 

[bgavin]

On 7/17/2023 at 12:13 PM, Sedalia Dave said:

It happens because of poor / incompetent leadership.

I asked the same of my daughter (now a full Commander) and she said it is leadership failure, for not teaching their enlisted how to drive the boat.

[Pat Riot]

6 minutes ago, bgavin said:

I asked the same of my daughter (now a full Commander) and she said it is leadership failure, for not teaching their enlisted how to drive the boat.

Exactly. More often than not the enlisted know exactly what to do. Officers often know enough to be dangerous about a particular task. Good officers listen to those they are in charge of. Bad ones do not. 
Also, in the Navy, line officers are moved from department to department. An officer very well versed in Engineering/Ship’s Propulsion may not know weapons, combat, logistics, operations, etc. but that officer to move up the ranks must work and lead in each department. 
To be fair to the officers, quite often they have more than one job and it’s taxing. 

[bgavin]

My kid was a mustang for 12 years and had done all the enlisted jobs, paint bilge firefighter etc.  18 years an officer and commands amazing respect from her command.

[Dungannon Gunner]

Just what I think I knew back in my Navy days I mean YEARS about coming into and out of port. Unless under battle conditions the surface ship Captains were not allowed to bring in or take out the ship. Local "pilots' were required.....  Again, BACK IN THE DAY

[Black Angus McPherson]

20 hours ago, Pat Riot said:

When a ship backs off power it slows. Plus the load slows it.
 The ship in tow proceeds forward at the rate of speed it was pretty much at when in tow. 
They steered starboard and brought their engines up and accelerated to push against the rudder to steer using the water being pushed by the screws. 

 

  

Sentence 1 and 2 make sense and follow common logic.

 

Sentence 3 kinda makes sense, but I'd think (not having any naval experience) that the rudder would still steer the ship away from a collision while the other ship accelerated away.  Maybe it would change direction slower than if it had the screws pushing water against the rudder, but it wouldn't be pushing the ship closer to a collision, either.  I guess it would depend on what is most important in the moment.  A drastic change of direction, or allowing the other ship to increase distance.

 

Thanks for the explanation.

 

BTW, I don't think you said, did the towed ship have two screws or only one?  If two couldn't they have advanced one screw and reversed the other in order to turn more quickly?  Or is that only in the movies?

 

Along those lines, couldn't the towed ship have reversed engines to stop and, possibly, back away from the Virginia to avoid a collision?  Is there a reason they did not try that or might it have been a case of "DO SOMETHING NOW!" and the starboard turn was the first thought?

 

I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread, this just got my curiosity going.

 

I also began wondering what would have happened if the lines weren't released and Capt. Numbnuts had accelerated again to tighten the slack lines between the ships.  I don't envision anything good coming from that scenario.  I've seen tiedown straps snap and that was scary enough for me.

 

Angus

 

[Pat Riot]

24 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

BTW, I don't think you said, did the towed ship have two screws or only one?  If two couldn't they have advanced one screw and reversed the other in order to turn more quickly?  Or is that only in the movies?

It had two and yes, they can operate independently. They may have done just that. 
 

25 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

Along those lines, couldn't the towed ship have reversed engines to stop and, possibly, back away from the Virginia to avoid a collision?  Is there a reason they did not try that or might it have been a case of "DO SOMETHING NOW!" and the starboard turn was the first thought?

The SoCar was already at 15 knots. It probably couldn’t have backed off in time. Especially since it was probably a few seconds before everyone realized what was going on. Ships are like king freight trains. They cannot stop quickly. 

 

27 minutes ago, Black Angus McPherson said:

I also began wondering what would have happened if the lines weren't released and Capt. Numbnuts had accelerated again to tighten the slack lines between the ships.  I don't envision anything good coming from that scenario.  I've seen tiedown straps snap and that was scary enough for me.

I think our Captain took over and once the lines were released from SoCar our ship accelerated. I seem to recall what the SoCar did was exactly what she should have. 
Also, the SoCar wasn’t that far behind us when in tow, maybe 200’. We were close as ship operations go.