Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 I got a notice from one of our TG’s that has a new proposal to allow a Junior to shoot gunfighter in that category. The way I understand it a Junior can now shoot Gunfighter but this will allow Juniors to shoot Gunfighter in the Junior category I see no problem with it. Whadya think?? PLEASE NOTE: I. Changed this from what I originally posted because I misunderstood the proposal. Thanks Ranger Dan for clearing that up. Sorry for any confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 I would support juniors being able to shoot “any style” in junior category the same as B-Western. I don’t feel we need anymore categories…Sorry. Vic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 I tend to agree with Yellowstone. If they're advanced enough to shoot Gunfighter then they should be advanced enough to shoot in the adult Gunfighter category. I don't think we need more categories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie T Waite Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 +1 - Juniors can already shoot as Gun Fighter under current rules. The ones I know who do, usually shoot the category better than some of the adults. I see no need for a change in the rules there. Charlie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliefoxEsquire Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 There was a reason why the current rules say "except gunfighter". Has that reason gone away? The proposed rule change includes may shoot Gunfighter-style under close supervision. I would suggest that at all times all TO's are providing proper supervision for all shooters. The rule change does not specify how the additional requirement under close supervision. is to be performed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 5 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said: There was a reason why the current rules say "except gunfighter". Has that reason gone away? The proposed rule change includes may shoot Gunfighter-style under close supervision. I would suggest that at all times all TO's are providing proper supervision for all shooters. The rule change does not specify how the additional requirement under close supervision. is to be performed. I'm not sure how that rule affects Juniors? It's just a general statement about the rules governing anyone shooting in either an age based or open category. I don't believe there's any requirement that you shoot in an age based category. Is there a rule stating a Junior can't shoot Gunfighter? What about Frontier Cartridge, or B-Western? I don't see why a Junior, or for that matter a Buckeroo/rette couldn't shoot any of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 So…could we see the proposed rule change verbatim?? There’s a lot of shooter’s that need “close supervision” and they are not just Juniors shooting gunfighter… Juniors can shoot junior, cowboy, style, or costume categories…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I'm not sure how that rule affects Juniors? It's just a general statement about the rules governing anyone shooting in either an age based or open category. I don't believe there's any requirement that you shoot in an age based category. Is there a rule stating a Junior can't shoot Gunfighter? What about Frontier Cartridge, or B-Western? I don't see why a Junior, or for that matter a Buckeroo/rette couldn't shoot any of those. A Junior can shoot Gunfighter, this rule will let Juniors shoot gunfighter in the Junior category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 40 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: If they're advanced enough to shoot Gunfighter then they should be advanced enough to shoot in the adult Gunfighter category. + 1 And honestly - "most" Juniors or even Buckerette/ Buckeroos that are playing the game at an elevated level WANT to compete for meaningful wins or placements. Desert Scorpion moved into Cowgirl when she was nine years old because she wanted more competition than was available to her as a Buckerette. Her words, "I would rather lose to adults in a group of twenty than win against kids in a group of two" Any kid who has put in the time, effort and practice to shoot Gunfighter will have that same mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranger Dan Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: A Junior can shoot Gunfighter, this rule adds a Junior Gunfighter category. I know, I’m not crazy about another category but I don’t think this will get many anyway. Why not let the Juniors shoot with other Juniors. We all say we want to promote young shooters to join. The way I understand the change, this does not create a new category. It allows Juniors to shoot gunfighter style in the Junior category, same as B Western do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 I went to a match recently and at the awards the statement was made: "Everyone won their category except" and then named a single shooter who was 2nd in his category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 2 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said: The way I understand the change, this does not create a new category. It allows Juniors to shoot gunfighter style in the Junior category, same as B Western do. You may be right, I may have misunderstood the proposal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 4 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said: The way I understand the change, this does not create a new category. It allows Juniors to shoot gunfighter style in the Junior category, same as B Western do. I wouldn't object to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted December 14, 2022 Share Posted December 14, 2022 6 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I got a notice from one of our TG’s that has a new proposal to add a Junior Gunfighter category. The way I understand it a Junior can now shoot Gunfighter but this will allow Juniors to shoot Gunfighter in the Junior category I see no problem with it. Whadya think?? PLEASE NOTE: I. Changed this from what I originally posted because I misunderstood the proposal. Sorry gir the confusion. This Is incorrect the proposed rule change is to allow Junior shooters the ability to shoot Gunfighter style similar to what is available to B-Western shooters. SASS Territorial Governor Voting Items Effective date: Jan 15, 2023 ITEM #1 - Allowing competitors to shoot Gunfighter style in the Junior Category. OPTION 1: (VOTE NO) - No change. Under current Gunfighter category rules, Gunfighter is an open category. (No age restrictions). A Junior could shoot in the Gunfighter category. SHB p. 10: Above the “Base Categories” listed in this handbook, the local club monthly match and club annual match level, all SASS recognized shooting categories may be offered by subdividing by all factors, including age, gender, shooting style, and propellant. *Shooting categories offered at any match are ultimately at the discretion of the Match Officials to ensure the success and viability of each match individually. OPTION 2: (VOTE YES) Allow Gunfighter-style in the Junior category as follows: SHB p.5: AGE BASED CATEGORIES Age based categories are offered to allow all participants to compete amongst their peers. Age based categories carry the following guidelines: - May use any main match revolver. - Revolvers may be shot in any SASS legal shooting style – EXCEPT Gunfighter. * Junior category shooters may shoot Gunfighter-style under close supervision. __________________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 14, 2022 Author Share Posted December 14, 2022 Thanks Randy I totally misunderstood the proposal. I blame it on old guys brain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totes Magoats Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 What is ‘Under Close Supervision’? Why not just allow gunfighter style in all age based categories vs from 14-16 years old? Totes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I've been "Under Close Supervision" for years. Nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I can't shoot Gunfighter in age based categories. B western can as a costume/ equipment category. Why should junior be any different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fretless Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 33 minutes ago, Mister Badly said: I can't shoot Gunfighter in age based categories. B western can as a costume/ equipment category. Why should junior be any different? So they can learn all the things, and try all the things. The more enticing, and interesting we can keep this sport for the kids, the longer they will continue with this sport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 7 hours ago, Fretless said: So they can learn all the things, and try all the things. The more enticing, and interesting we can keep this sport for the kids, the longer they will continue with this sport. They can try it by shooting in the Gunfighter category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 The Iron Cowboy has been talking about Gunfighter for years now. So far I’ve prevailed on him to stick with one revolver at a time. You’re welcome @Badlands Bob #61228! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 15, 2022 Author Share Posted December 15, 2022 8 hours ago, Mister Badly said: I can't shoot Gunfighter in age based categories. B western can as a costume/ equipment category. Why should junior be any different? Good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 44 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: The Iron Cowboy has been talking about Gunfighter for years now. So far I’ve prevailed on him to stick with one revolver at a time. You’re welcome @Badlands Bob #61228! I'd encourage him to shoot Gunfighter. There's enough fun for everyone. Iron Cowboy would make a fine Gunfighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 43 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: The Iron Cowboy has been talking about Gunfighter for years now. So far I’ve prevailed on him to stick with one revolver at a time. You’re welcome @Badlands Bob #61228! I KNEW he was a good cowboy! Maybe transition through double duelist to work on one handed shooting with both hands which also keeps the same shot count method. It would also help with eye dominance issues. What do I know though? My last match I ran a single shot shotgun with black powder. With mixed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Ethan # 94321 Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: The Iron Cowboy has been talking about Gunfighter for years now. So far I’ve prevailed on him to stick with one revolver at a time. You’re welcome @Badlands Bob #61228! I think he would make a wonderful Gunfighter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I'd encourage him to shoot Gunfighter. There's enough fun for everyone. Iron Cowboy would make a fine Gunfighter. 56 minutes ago, Mister Badly said: I KNEW he was a good cowboy! Maybe transition through double duelist to work on one handed shooting with both hands which also keeps the same shot count method. It would also help with eye dominance issues. What do I know though? My last match I ran a single shot shotgun with black powder. With mixed results. 46 minutes ago, Uncle Ethan # 94321 said: I think he would make a wonderful Gunfighter. Now that I think about it, maybe that would slow him down (for a while) enough for me to start beating him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 For awhile maybe. Then he could whoop on TW. Then me. But he would have a lot of company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tn Tombstone Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I would think it would give the Junior shooters a chance to try GF without having to go up against Lefty or Sidekick or the other top GF's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicker Nash Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 11 hours ago, Mister Badly said: I can't shoot Gunfighter in age based categories. B western can as a costume/ equipment category. Why should junior be any different? I am in favor of allowing Gunfighter style in all age groups. When I started SASS, you could use variable sighted revolvers in Senior Duelist. That was changed to force Senior Duelists to use fixed sight revolvers. This was for consistency sake. Why would we create another inconsistent rule, gunfighter style in one age group? I say all or none! I would vote no on the question to allow only one age group to shoot gunfighter style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 My thought is to leave it as it is. If Juniors want to try out Gunfighter, they can. All they have to do is sign up for the Gunfighter category. And if they are testing the waters that should be done at a monthly match vs a State or higher match. Let me go at this from a different direction. Only Gunfighters or B-Western shooters can have two loaded revolvers in hand. The way that the change is written any Junior could have two loaded revolvers out, he/she is thinking about shooting GF but changed their mind. Penalty? For any other age category that would be a progressive P. Not needed. BS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 12 hours ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said: I've been "Under Close Supervision" for years. Nothing to worry about. Some people just need watching! Kajun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fretless Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 I can see both sides of this coin. One last pitch for the change. The fact that youth shooters are eligible for open age categories is widely misunderstood. As a result, parents prevent or discourage children from trying all the various options. This change would eliminate that barrier... at least for those in the 14-17 age range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 Change the Gunfighter rule to allow it in all age based categories or don't change it. The idea that young shooters need the change but more advanced ages don't is ridiculous. Be consistent! If they shoot Gunfighter they might as well get used to the top shooters besting them. Or work hard and turn the tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Badly Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 1 hour ago, Fretless said: I can see both sides of this coin. One last pitch for the change. The fact that youth shooters are eligible for open age categories is widely misunderstood. As a result, parents prevent or discourage children from trying all the various options. This change would eliminate that barrier... at least for those in the 14-17 age range. The only barrier there is parents who don't understand the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackalope Posted December 15, 2022 Share Posted December 15, 2022 3 hours ago, Tn Tombstone said: I would think it would give the Junior shooters a chance to try GF without having to go up against Lefty or Sidekick or the other top GF's. I wonder how often this really happens. My guess is about zero percent of the time. Sounds to me like somebody needs a solution for a nonexistent problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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