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42 minutes ago, Scarlett said:

However, the SHOES have gotten out of hand. There are a lot of lug soles

 

Lug soles are legal in every category but classic cowboy and B Western.

 

 

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
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6 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Well, on this one the rules are reasonably clear.  If MD's aren't enforcing it, that's a different problem.  Jean, boots/brogans/shoes that aren't "sneakers" but a shooter can actually walk in due to injuries or other problems, long sleeve button up shirt, hat optional.  It's not that much of a requirement.

 

I really don't know what constitutes a "barely cowboy looking shooter" in your mind.  So I'll bow out of this discussion as I don't know what we're actually discussing.

In my opinion, again not according to the rules, but just this one guys opinion, if after shooting a match a person were to remove their gun belt and hat and walk through the store, and no little kids stopped to gawk at “the cowboy”… you ain’t dressed cowboy enough. 
If aside from your hat and gun belt you fit right into average 2022 society and look like everyone else, you ain’t even trying. 

Edited by Smokestack SASS#87384
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7 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Minimum - jeans, long sleeve shirt, some sort of footware ( not necessarily boots) and hats are not required.

And in HS, I was only required to get a passing grade.

Oiy.

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Just now, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

In my opinion, again not according to the rules, but just this one guys opinion, if after shooting a match a person were to remove their gun belt and hat and walk through the store, and no little kids stopped to gawk at “the cowboy”… you ain’t dressed cowboy enough. 
mid aside from your hat and gun belt you fit right into average 2022 society and look like everyone else, you ain’t even trying. 

 

That doesn't really help.  If I had on jeans, some sort of button up long sleeve dress shirt, and some sort of modern style cowboy boots, I'd meet the rules.  Maybe what you're really looking for is a change the minimum dress rules.  If that's the case, we'd be able to have a discussion if you came up with a strawman rule that could be discussed. 

 

Yeah, I'm feeling somewhat argumentative tonight. 

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1 minute ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

In my opinion, again not according to the rules, but just this one guys opinion, if after shooting a match a person were to remove their gun belt and hat and walk through the store, and no little kids stopped to gawk at “the cowboy”… you ain’t dressed cowboy enough. 
If aside from your hat and gun belt you fit right into average 2022 society and look like everyone else, you ain’t even trying. 

AMEN!!!

At least TRY.

Put a scarf around your neck!

Throw on a vest!!!

 

And how do you expect to draw attention to our sport by changing before going out to eat or shop after a match!?!?

 

If you think it is not important to dress like the Old West...to resemble the Old West (and yes, there are 100s of costumeing ideas, depending on which part of the country you lived/worked)...

AND it is a 'fantasy' costume ideology...

And you aren't enjoying THIS game for the mindset it was started for...why keep tearing this one down???

Rant over.

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5 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

That doesn't really help.  If I had on jeans, some sort of button up long sleeve dress shirt, and some sort of modern style cowboy boots, I'd meet the rules.  Maybe what you're really looking for is a change the minimum dress rules.  If that's the case, we'd be able to have a discussion if you came up with a strawman rule that could be discussed. 

 

Yeah, I'm feeling somewhat argumentative tonight. 

You may want to revisit the original post. I’m not pushing some hidden agenda. 

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Just now, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

You may want to revisit the original post. I’m not pushing some hidden agenda. 

 

I have, a few times.  I still have no idea what it is that you're having an issue with.  Maybe I'm just dense tonight, but your original post was very generic and didn't have any specific examples. 

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Just now, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

Not watching your video.

You really should. It is quite entertaining and appropriate to the point we're making here.

 

But, to make sure you're involved in the conversation, I'll post the transcript here for you to read.

 

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : We need to talk about your flair.

Joanna : Really? I... I have fifteen pieces on. I, also...

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : Well, okay. Fifteen is the minimum, okay?

Joanna : Okay.

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : Now, you know it's up to you whether or not you want to just do the bare minimum. Or... well, like Brian, for example, has thirty seven pieces of flair, okay. And a terrific smile.

Joanna : Okay. So you... you want me to wear more?

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : Look. Joanna.

Joanna : Yeah.

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : People can get a cheeseburger anywhere, okay? They come to Chotchkie's for the atmosphere and the attitude. Okay? That's what the flair's about. It's about fun.

Joanna : Yeah. Okay. So more then, yeah?

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : Look, we want you to express yourself, okay? Now if you feel that the bare minimum is enough, then okay. But some people choose to wear more and we encourage that, okay? You do want to express yourself, don't you?

Joanna : Yeah, yeah.

Stan, Chotchkie's Manager : Okay. Great. Great. That's all I ask

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I've only been shooting SASS/CAS for a little over 18 years.

 

I see no deterioration in dress.

 

Increase dress requirements and you'll surely put another nail in the coffin.

 

Phantom

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I'm right there with Sixgun Seamus.  I also really enjoyed the costuming aspect and "cowboyed up" long before I became a Classic Cowgirl.  As a matter of fact, his post is extremely similar to one I would have written. 
I think footwear is one place were I see many items that should not be worn.  Questioning them usually brings about "I have bad feet" as the reason.  Then what?  Do we ask for a doctor's excuse?  It can become a gray area in terms of enforcement.

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14 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I've only been shooting SASS/CAS for a little over 18 years.

 

I see no deterioration in dress.

 

Increase dress requirements and you'll surely put another nail in the coffin.

 

Phantom

Although we seem to have a different perspective (may have something to do with the miles between us) I respect and appreciate your opinion. 
 

the concern that any increase in requirements could drive some people away is not unfounded. 

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If I were to get really specific, the costuming isn't really an interest of mine.  I do like the "old style" guns quite a bit.  And I enjoy hanging out with the friends I've made throughout the years in the game.  But I'm quite happy and content in boots, jeans, and a shirt.  I usually wear a hat as it's cooler in the summer and warmer in the winter.  A hat also keeps the brass out of my shirt and provides shade.  Frankly, I doubt it's much different from what's worn by a working cowboy of the era.  And that's pretty much minimal costuming outlined in the rules.

Edited by Doc Shapiro
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My normal attire will vary a small bit.  1) jeans with belt, shirt from one of our vendors, cowboy boots (either walking heel or reg cowboy heel), and either a felt or straw hat depending on the temperature.  2) jeans with braces, and the rest of the attire is the same.

Should I be "blinging" it up more??  I've got some shirts that are a little louder than others, but jeans are jeans.

I don't see shooters in tee shirts, ball caps, etc. 

Where exactly do we need to step up our outfits?

 

Asking out of curiosity,

BS

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so i did not want to invest the big bucks into costuming after spending on guns and ammo and leather and such , but , i did not want to be that guy that failed completely in the costume area of a venue that emphasizes the costumes as much as the guns , i searched my mind for old movies [even tho im not ever in that category] for things that made sense to me , i cuffed my jeans like JW in the searchers - one that left an impression on me , i bought a bib shirt that id seen in another of his movie and added a bandanna id worn [on my hair]  when i rode bike years ago , i bought some ropers i could wear for other things and bought a hat at a local thrift store [i still wear that hat and cuff those jean] ive bought some different shirts after finding we need warm weather and cool weather , i still wear the same jeans just added a few extra pair , ive got new boots but still have the originals , 

 

im still not gonna spend on my costume what i spent on my guns and ammo-reloading gear , but i add a little when the time is right , i got suspenders last year - i love them , thank you annie in wisconsin - she also made my warm weather shirts as well as my duster , over the years you meet folks that add to your needs , a couple years ago i decided to add 38s to my shooting/reloading , i bought revolvers and a rifle and leather - then i had a good friend  hayroot in wisconsin make me reloading wallets , what im trying to convey is that you build on what you have as you go l did , 

 

please spread the wealth among cowboy shooters - i wish i had bought all my leather that way but when i started i had an in with galco and went with theirs - no complaints , i only wish i had taken my time a little more before i selected who i bought from , i still wear my galco most matches and will always have them , glad i do and recomend them really , but i like my elpaso sadlery set for the 38s and everything my cowboy friends have made me - they could have made everything and i might be happier yet , check it out and take your time , no need to hurry , 

 

on the hat - yes you do need one , might not be mandatory in your category but really - you need one , my $5 hat at the thrift store has served me well , its not real impressive but it is a stetson , , i bought it when i started because i was not sure id stick with this - i had just lef6t three gun reluctantly , but it grew on me ...no not physically but psychologically , it may well be the one thing i started with that i end with - i have a revolver that i bought at the same time that competes tho , 

 

eventually you will find a "look" or a style that fits your needs or just feels comfortable , 

i have to admit i have friends that went all out and look really great in their duds , i envy that some , but what they wear is not me , it looks fantastic and i like the way they look , i cant spend what they do , i cant sew like they do ,  but i still shoot with them  , but most of my friends dont go out of the way discussing it other than to talk about what is working for us - like my suspenders that a friend that shoots with me liked and ordered up a set for himself , old man-no butt syndrom , 

we just wear what we wear and shoot together - i get to stand next to the fancy folks in the photos , and they still want to shoot/camp with me 

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5 minutes ago, watab kid said:

 i had a good friend  hayroot in wisconsin

 

I'd like to comment on this, and hope that you pass it on to Hayroot.  I haven't met him, but I spent some time with his brother Wildroot.  I learned a lot from him.  Not just shooting, but life lessons.  He was quite a gem and it really broke me up when he passed in a car accident.  I miss him and our conversations and well, I hope you know what I mean because I can't really express it.

Edited by Doc Shapiro
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Howdy Smokestack.  I hear you.  Shooter's handbook used to say what the minimum requirements were, but also said this is a costuming sport and people were expected to upgrade (I'm paraphrasing).  The thing is, a lot of the minimum requirement shooters stay at the minimum.  When this has come up on the Wire before, many just say hey, what I'm wearing is legal, so kwitcherbitchin.  And that is where the discussion ends.  As for the question of whether more people are dressing at the minimum now, I haven't noticed.  There are some at every match, some more than others.  My least favorite item of attire to see is the modern cattleman style plastic coated straw hat.  But, it's legal.  

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Bad feet is no joke especially standing around for 3-4 hours at a match.   As for costuming if a person meets the minimum then they are good to play the game.  If someone wants to dress-up that is fine also.  This sport has plenty of room for each end of the spectrum and in the middle. I wish there was a John Deere Salesman category.   You could wear shortsleve shirts when its 95f and 85% humidity, wear a ball cap from the feed supply, and comfortable footwear.   I know plenty of modern day cowboys and this is what they wear a lot of the time.   I would gladly sign up in this category even if it was never awarded a single thing, take my money and let me be as comfortable as possible. 

Edited by Dillon Blue
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27 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

I'd like to comment on this, and hope that you pass it on to Hayroot.  I haven't met him, but I spent some time with his brother Wildroot.  I learned a lot from him.  Not just shooting, but life lessons.  He was quite a gem and it really broke me up when he passed in a car accident.  I miss him and our conversations and well, I hope you know what I mean because I can't really express it.

i hope i did not mislead in my typing - i dont always type exactly what my mind is thinking , my friend hay root is still alive , i had to reread what i wrote to realize i might have misled , i "have a friend" but i get you ,  i think  , im not certain exactly where ill go with it yet but im feeling what your saying in more ways than i can put in words , we all have our friends that leave the impressions you just never forget , ill see him in august if not before , ill mention this exchange , there are folks in your life that leave a good impression - my friends in wisconsin are a large part of that , 

 

 

Edited by watab kid
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Just now, watab kid said:

i get you i think  , im not certain exactly where ill go with it yet but im feeling what your saying in more ways than i can put in words , we all have our friends that leave the impressions you just never forget , ill see him in august if not before , ill mention this exchange , there are folks in your life that leave a good impression - my friends in wisconsin are a large part of that , 

 

 

 

Thank you.  I'm sure he'll understand.  And you're right.  We meet all kinds of folks on the journey through life.  Some leave a more lasting impression than others.  Very few will leave a bigger impression for me than Wildroot did.  I'd be honored to lift a glass with his brother Heyroot at some point.

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I don't care a whit about complaints about outfits, complaining to me is just so much noise.  And it ain't really the MD's problem, he/she has enough stress on their shoulders already.  If you feel it's a problem, address the problem!  If you feel someone isn't dressed appropriately, call 'em out!  You can do it without being demeaning...  Constructive criticism needn't be confrontational.    I can't tell you how many times Tex and the Judge admonished me about my outfits in the early days...  And they'd probably have something to say on occasion...   like when I drag myself into the house and bed @ 2am to get up @ 5am so I have time to eat breakfast and drive 2 hours to go to the "local" match...   What's illegal about my outfit:

Griff-3.jpg

Edited by Griff
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12 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

Thank you.  I'm sure he'll understand.  And you're right.  We meet all kinds of folks on the journey through life.  Some leave a more lasting impression than others.  Very few will leave a bigger impression for me than Wildroot did.  I'd be honored to lift a glass with his brother Heyroot at some point.

ill join you there , 

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7 minutes ago, Griff said:

I don't care a whit about complaints about outfits, complaining to me is just so much noise.  And it ain't really the MD's problem, he/she has enough stress on their shoulders already.  If you feel it's a problem, address the problem!  If you feel someone isn't dressed appropriately, call 'em out!  You can do it without being demeaning...  Constructive criticism needn't be confrontational.    I can't tell you how many times Tex and the Judge admonished me about my outfits in the early days...  And they'd probably have something to say on occasion...   like when I drag myself into the house and bed @ 2am to get up @ 5am so I have time to eat breakfast and drive 2 hours to go to the "local" match...   What's illegal about my outfit:

Griff-3.jpg

You actually have things that look 'old west cowboy'

The braces, the bib shirt, and a 'fancy hat band'

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11 minutes ago, Griff said:

I don't care a whit about complaints about outfits, complaining to me is just so much noise.  And it ain't really the MD's problem, he/she has enough stress on their shoulders already.  If you feel it's a problem, address the problem!  If you feel someone isn't dressed appropriately, call 'em out!  You can do it without being demeaning...  Constructive criticism needn't be confrontational.    I can't tell you how many times Tex and the Judge admonished me about my outfits in the early days...  And they'd probably have something to say on occasion...   like when I drag myself into the house and bed @ 2am to get up @ 5am so I have time to eat breakfast and drive 2 hours to go to the "local" match...   What's illegal about my outfit:

Griff-3.jpg

That a watch?:P

Kidding, but yer shadow is all wrong. You need to work on that.

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So, in order to look more cowboy, we need to require a couple pieces of flair to the minimum category requirements?

 

Wouldn't cause weakening the integrity of the B-Western and Classic Cowboy categories, possibly deeming them irrelevant?

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1 minute ago, Griff said:

I don't care a whit about complaints about outfits, complaining to me is just so much noise.  And it ain't really the MD's problem, he/she has enough stress on their shoulders already.  If you feel it's a problem, address the problem!  If you feel someone isn't dressed appropriately, call 'em out!  You can do it without being demeaning...  Constructive criticism needn't be confrontational.    I can't tell you how many times Tex and the Judge admonished me about my outfits in the early days...  And they'd probably have something to say on occasion...   like when I drag myself into the house and bed @ 2am to get up @ 5am so I have time to eat breakfast and drive 2 hours to go to the "local" match...   What's illegal about my outfit:

Griff-3.jpg?width=450&height=278&crop=fi 

yes , lets limit the complaints to meaningful problems - i cant think of one right off hand but im sure somewhere there was one once in my past life , mostly lets have fun and enjoy each others company , this has been one of my best experiences in life that way , ive had a few and ive enjoyed them a lot , but this has been one of the best - ive met folks from all walks of life and enjoyed the food fixins from some very great cooks at every chuckwagon experience ive encountered at camping with the cowboys ive shot with , 

 

i have yet to have a bad experience , ive had bad weather , ive had bad times with my guns [everyone is helpful] , ive had bad ammo [my own fault] , ive even had some equipment failures and a bad wardroab situation [we will save that for the campfire] , but ive never had a bad shoot - always enjoyed the folks around me and never went hungry , 

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4 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

If the SASS minimum dress requirements are not "cowboy" enough, what would you add to the current minimum requirements I to make it acceptable?

Branchwater:

We have; Slut shaming; Russian Hoax shaming, and Conspiracy Theory shaming - how about Cowboy Shaming !!  ( joke )

 

But every month this is a very active topic.  You would think Misty and the Match Director's would get their heads together for some "Clarity".  Maybe they are, we're just waiting for the new website and other improvements.

Edited by T-Square
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