Does the Marine Corps have Warrant Officers?

[Alpo]

I have two fictions that are contradicting each other.

 

In an NCIS New Orleans episode a Marine Corps Chief Warrant Officer was murdered.

 

In the Griffin series The Corps, we have the term Master Gunner, which is explained as the Marine Corps equivalent to a Warrant Officer.

 

Now either one, or both, of these is incorrect.

 

Unless during World War II they did not have Warrant Officers they had Master Gunners, but now they have Warrant Officers. That is a possibility.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

My son-in-law retired after thirty years  a few years back as a Chief Warrant Officer 5.  They only went to 4 when I was in and he was one of the first five to earn that rank.  When he retired the were only 2 left.

 

You wouldn't believe the number of dignitaries who came to Coronado to attend his retirement.

 

Warrant officers are called "Gunner" just like Gunnery Sergeants are called "Gunny".  They even handed out wristbands with WWGSD on them: What Would Gunner Steier Do?"

[Perro Del Diablo]

Yes

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I trained at Blackwater with pair of Marine Warrants whose specialty was putting down the steel grates used as runways on desert islands.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

According to the 10-second google dive I did, congress created the Marine warrant officer grades in 1916, but they were eventually (by WWII) called Marine Gunner, Chief Marine Gunner, Quartermaster Clerk, Chief Quartermaster Clerk, Pay Clerk and Chief Pay Clerk. 

 

The Marine warrant grades became aligned with the other services in 1943.

[Irish Pat]

Yes, my good friend, Leatherneck, with the Mississippi Peacemakers was a warrant officer in a Intruder fighter bomber in Viet Nam

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Warrant Officers are supposed to be technical experts...yet the only two services who DO NOT use Warrant Officers are the Air Force and Space Force....you know, the two services with the most technical experts.  It's a huge pet peeve of mine:  Their own internal documents admit they develop, groom, promote, and select officers for command based on technical system expertise, not leadership or management ability.  So the vast majority of their officers are overpaid Warrant Officers with a commission instead.  I've met field grade officers who have NEVER supervised another person.  Then at the field grade level they get selected for command, and for many / most of them it's the first time they have ever led anyone.  Holy Moses.  

 

It's extremely frustrating, being a guy with an Army background with YEARS of training, education, and experience on leadership.  But inside their organization I'm a contractor, and have to keep my mouth shut while O6s make the same mistakes one would expect out of a 2LT.  

 

Please, please, please, Air Force and Space Force, introduce Warrant Officers into your services!  Officers lead, manage, and direct policy.  Warrant Officers provide technical expertise.  NCOs train and supervise the airmen and guardians.  Airmen and guardians do the job.  It's really that simple.  Every other service has it figured out!

[Pat Riot]

One of my favorite people in the Navy was “Gunner Harm”. Cool name, no? He was a CWO4 in Combat Systems aboard my ship. Great guy. Excellent officer. 
 

@Forty Rod SASS 3935 post made me think of him. 

[Okiepan]

The only branch of service without a warrant is the Air Force.

The Coast Guard Has W2,3,4 No 5s

The other branches Army , Navy , Marines All have W 1-5 .

[Alpo]

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

[Okiepan]

In the CG it's Sir or Ma-am

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

My SIL was in charge of a group who went world wide installing, repairing, maintaining, and teaching Marine and Navy ground control equipment and personnel.  He was so well thought of that the last four years (after he married my daughter) he got permission to take her along as a civilian employee working as his "office manager".....and he stopped going every week for five or six days at a time.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

48 minutes ago, Alpo said:

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

In the Navy you might informally call them ‘Gunner’ if their rating had been a Gunner’s Mate, or possibly some other rating associated with fire control, just as you might informally call a Boatswain’s Mate who became a warrant officer ‘Boats’. It would be an ‘inside the spaces’ familiarity. But the standard form of address would be, ‘Warrant Officer’ if they were a W-1, or ‘Chief Warrant Officer’ if a W-2 or above. 
 

The warrants I’ve had working with me just went by, ‘Wo’  (pronounced, ‘woe’). All aviation ratings.

[Black Angus McPherson]

I must confess my ignorance.  I wouldn't know a Warrant Officer if I hit one in the crosswalk.  Corporal, Sgt., Capt., Lt. Col. I got.  I have no idea what the insignia is for a WO.   1 or 5.

 

Don't even try explaining all the Navy stuff, Boatswain, Machinist Mate, etc., etc.  

 

Angus  

[Tequila Shooter]

@Black Angus McPherson as far as the Navy goes here is a picture of the insignias

 

 

 

Enlisted Personnel in the Army, Marine Corps and Air Force have MOS’s (Military Ocupational Specialty) is used for the job they are qualified to do

Enlisted Personnel in the Navy and Coast Guard have Rates (Boatswain Mate, Machinist Mate, Special Operator) they are also used for the job they do.  However they take it a step further and use the rate in the persons title.  For example in the Army an enlisted person with 3 chevrons would be called Sargent without regard to their MOS, but in the Navy they would be called by their Rate + Rank, I.E. a Second Class Boatswain Mate would be called BM2.  Both the Sargent and the BM2 are both E5 paygrade.

 

I probably made it clear as mud. 

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

2 hours ago, Alpo said:

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

Those "tracks" are much different than commissioned officers' (Marine and Army Captains and Navy Lieutenants) insignia.  Much more colorful.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

3 hours ago, Okiepan said:

The only branch of service without a warrant is the Air Force.

The Coast Guard Has W2,3,4 No 5s

The other branches Army , Navy , Marines All have W 1-5 .

Space Force.  Please see my post above yours.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

6 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

Warrant Officers are supposed to be technical experts...yet the only two services who DO NOT use Warrant Officers are the Air Force and Space Force....you know, the two services with the most technical experts.  It's a huge pet peeve of mine:  Their own internal documents admit they develop, groom, promote, and select officers for command based on technical system expertise, not leadership or management ability.  So the vast majority of their officers are overpaid Warrant Officers with a commission instead.  I've met field grade officers who have NEVER supervised another person.  Then at the field grade level they get selected for command, and for many / most of them it's the first time they have ever led anyone.  Holy Moses.  

 

It's extremely frustrating, being a guy with an Army background with YEARS of training, education, and experience on leadership.  But inside their organization I'm a contractor, and have to keep my mouth shut while O6s make the same mistakes one would expect out of a 2LT.  

 

Please, please, please, Air Force and Space Force, introduce Warrant Officers into your services!  Officers lead, manage, and direct policy.  Warrant Officers provide technical expertise.  NCOs train and supervise the airmen and guardians.  Airmen and guardians do the job.  It's really that simple.  Every other service has it figured out!

I'm going to have to differ with you here.  You're defining Leadership much too narrowly.  The best military leader I ever knew was an SFC (E7).  The best soldier I ever knew was a warrant officer (Mr. Wooden) who had superior leadership and technical skills.    Because of Mr. Wooden I made it my goal to become a warrant officer.  Warrant Officers who are not effective leaders fail regardless of technical expertise.  And the worst leader I ever served under was an Army LTC (O5) that couldn't lead a Sunday School Class out of a burning church.  

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

Just now, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I'm going to have to differ with you here.  You're defining Leadership much too narrowly.  The best military leader I ever knew was an SFC (E7).  The best soldier I ever knew was a warrant officer (Mr. Wooden) who had superior leadership and technical skills.    Because of Mr. Wooden I made it my goal to become a warrant officer.  Warrant Officers who are not effective leaders fail regardless of technical expertise.  And the worst leader I ever served under was an Army LTC (O5) that couldn't lead a Sunday School Class out of a burning church.  

This is all true, but you're referencing something known as "referent" or "expertise" power.  I was speaking strictly about positional power.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

In the Army, "Mister" or "Missus" as appropriate for all Warrant Officer ranks.  "Chief" for W2-W5.  A W1 is not a chief.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

3 hours ago, Alpo said:

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

When I was a warrant officer in the US Army, it was, "Good morning, Sir, or Chief, or Mister Tyson."  Never just "Mister."   Even if you don't know the warrant, you read his/her name tag and then use the Mister and last name.

[Trailrider #896]

When I was in the Air Force we did have a WO (don't recall his actual rank).  He was addressed as "Mr. Nugebaur", a finance expert.

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

12 minutes ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

This is all true, but you're referencing something known as "referent" or "expertise" power.  I was speaking strictly about positional power.

I know this is semantics, but in my view Positional Power is what I call, "Command Authority."  Leadership is a skill.  As you pointed out, leadership positions can lack leadership skills.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

22 minutes ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I know this is semantics, but in my view Positional Power is what I call, "Command Authority."  Leadership is a skill.  As you pointed out, leadership positions can lack leadership skills.

Yes, positional power = command authority.  I was using terms from the academic study of management and leadership (this is what my first MA was in).  The military simply calls it command authority.  

[Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663]

23 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

Yes, positional power = command authority.  I was using terms from the academic study of management and leadership (this is what my first MA was in).  The military simply calls it command authority.  

I have long forgotten where I heard this.

"Time, money, and assets are Managed.  People are Led."

After I retired, it was eye-opening to me how many civilians equated good management with good leadership.  After I retired, I went to college and got my BS in Business Science.  I had many classes on business management, but not one on business leadership.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

5 hours ago, Cyrus Cassidy #45437 said:

In the Army, "Mister" or "Missus" as appropriate for all Warrant Officer ranks.  "Chief" for W2-W5.  A W1 is not a chief.

Or "Chief" when I was in the Army and we were on workshop floor terms.

 

Never saw a W-1 in my life that I can recall.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Marine Warrant officers are called "Gunner" as a courtesy with the exception of  the rare "Line" warrent officers who wear an explodung bomg insignia and which are officially termed  "Gunners".

 

The titles "Master" was  dropped after WW II.

 

"Chief" is for 2, 3, 4 & 5.

 

Cryptologic Analysts l(2572)  like me were enlisted or Limited Duty Officers or Warrant Officers. We didn't rate an exploding bomb.

 

After WW II,  the specialist flat rocker was dropped and everyone got the curved rocker.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

12 hours ago, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Or "Chief" when I was in the Army and we were on workshop floor terms.

 

Never saw a W-1 in my life that I can recall.

Rod..."Chief" is literally in my next sentence

 

As to W1s, I saw a bunch of them.  I had one when I was a PL, and when I went through the officer's basic course they had an entire company of them in our battalion.

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

17 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I have long forgotten where I heard this.

"Time, money, and assets are Managed.  People are Lead."

After I retired, it was eye-opening to me how many civilians equated good management with good leadership.  After I retired, I went to college and got my BS in Business Science.  I had many classes on business management, but not one on business leadership.

 

^^^ THIS.  I share in your amazement.  I abbreviated when I mentioned my first M.A. degree; it's actually entitled "Management and Leadership."  The management half is all about time, money, and assets -- things like budgeting and finance, fundamental ratios to evaluate management, supply chains, human resources activities and legalities, organizational structure development, etc.  The leadership half is about people -- what motivates them (guess what?  It's not usually money), how to motivate them, strategic level decision-making, etc.  

 

[Utah Bob #35998]

19 hours ago, Birdgun Quail, SASS #63663 said:

I have long forgotten where I heard this.

"Time, money, and assets are Managed.  People are Lead."

After I retired, it was eye-opening to me how many civilians equated good management with good leadership.  After I retired, I went to college and got my BS in Business Science.  I had many classes on business management, but not one on business leadership.

As I rose to supervisory positions in law enforcement I attended course after seminar after workshop dealing in “management”.  Most were only marginally useful and generally given by academics or outside business contractors. The overriding attitude seemed to be there was no difference in managing a police district or a grocery store. 
Then I was fortunate enough to Bree accepted into a Senior Leadership course where we were told right at the start, “This is not a management course. This is a Leadership course”. 
At that point in my career I didn’t learn a lot that I didn’t already know but I was able to recommend it to my young up and coming subordinates who hadn’t been exposed a lot to leadership principles. The ones who were accepted subsequently told me how much they learned in it.

[Dustin Checotah]

On 4/9/2021 at 12:23 PM, Alpo said:

On a slightly similar vein, what do you call them?

 

According to 40, in the Marines you call them Gunner. If I am reading Pat correctly, in the Navy you also call them Gunner.

 

Now if I saw Bob in uniform, and had no idea who he was, but saw those railroad tracks on his shoulder, I would say, "Good morning Captain".

 

But if I were to run into a Warrant Officer. Don't know his name. "Good morning _________"

 

How do you address them?

"Good morning Sir"

My father was a W-4 Gunner. He had been a Gunners Mate Chief before he made  Warrant W-2 in 1956.  His specialty was nuclear weapons. He was on a NTPI Team when he died. Nuclear Technical Proficiency Inspection Team. They traveled to Naval nuclear weapons stations to inspect all things related to Naval nuclear weapons.

I on the other hand worked with naval nuclear power or as I would tell people he worked on nuclear stuff that was supposed to blow up and I worked on nuclear stuff that wasn't supposed to blow up.

[Dustin Checotah]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:04 PM, Forty Rod SASS 3935 said:

Those "tracks" are much different than commissioned officers' (Marine and Army Captains and Navy Lieutenants) insignia.  Much more colorful.

[Alpo]

10 minutes ago, Dustin Checotah said:

"Good morning Sir"

I'm sure that's what the enlisted men said to one. But I was thinking more along the lines of a superior officer, or a civilian. Just being polite.

[Okiepan]

I will say that a W5's are kinda like unicorns, You hear about them but they really do exist .

very rare indeed .

[Cyrus Cassidy #45437]

1 hour ago, Okiepan said:

I will say that a W5's are kinda like unicorns, You hear about them but they really do exist .

very rare indeed .

They're all in higher echelon headquarters.  I actually know several, because I pretty much only work in higher echelon headquarters anymore.