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Please, please don't attempt to shame those who don't get a vaccine...


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First off I fully support those that wish to get vaccinated....if I were in different circumstances I would likely get one.  I fully support having the choice.   What concerns me is the incr

Wait, I do have something to add. While I have not insulted not shamed any ant’vaccers, I have been called a sheep, a fool, and a coward for advocating getting vaccinated. It goes both ways. There’s f

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11 hours ago, ORNERY OAF said:

I had covid in January, I'm still deciding on the shot....

You already have the antibodies in your system.

I had it LAST January, before it had a fancy name and a press agent, and I'm still immune. My wife tested positive in mid February this year, and I didn't get it again.

You don't need the shot.

Maybe the shot you don't get can go to Subdeacon Joe.

Edited by Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770
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I must respect your opinion before you can shame me.

Edited by Matthew Duncan
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I got my second shot yesterday. No biggie, no drama. I did get the guy to list “Disneyland” as the location where I got my shot on my “shot card”...Didn’t we used to have to have a shot card for our dogs?...:lol:

 

Anyway, I woke up this morning with the shivers. Turns out I didn’t turn the furnace on last night and my house was 64 degrees. Duh! Not enough blankies I guess. ;)

I slept for 8 whole hours! That’s rare. And I feel great!

I hope my wife feels as good as I do this morning. She is still asleep. 
 

Well, she was...my dog just started barking up a storm. There’s probably a squirrel out back. 

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  • 4 weeks later...

From Tucker, it mirrors my interaction with family at a funeral last week-not Covid related...exactly below is what I see in every day real life...it’s like people that want to be a victim all the time, or people that want everything to be about race...they ignore reality and create their own that fits the narrative in their mind...

 

“Pollsters at the Morning Consult just did that. Here’s what they found: Americans who have been vaccinated against COVID are more afraid of going outside than Americans who haven’t been vaccinated. Much more afraid. Only a quarter of vaccinated adults say they’d be willing to travel to a work conference or enter a gym. Only 24% of them would take the bus. Less than half would be willing to rent a car, alone. Only 34% would go to a party. Just 17% of them would dare to take a cruise. And so on. These people are absolutely terrified of getting COVID. Yet, again, they’ve all been vaccinated. Clearly, many vaccinated Americans — most, according to this poll — don’t really believe in the COVID vaccine.  

What does this tell us? Among other things, it tells us that we’ve long ago left the realm of science, and are instead in a state of mass hysteria and mass manipulation. Many Americans are too scared to think clearly. If you’ve had the vaccine, which you say you believe is effective, but you’re too afraid to rent a car for fear of getting COVID, you’re not thinking clearly. And you’re not thinking clearly because you’re too afraid. And you’re afraid because you’ve been told for more than a year that you are required to be terrified. And the arrival of the vaccine has not calmed you at all. Instead, demagogues have instructed them to channel their fear into hate, and turn it on anyone who disobeys their orders. The result is vaccinated Americans in masks cannot be happy or feel safe, or feel any relief at all, until every other person in the country joins them in getting the shot, and covering their faces. That’s not rational. That’s not science. It’s something much darker than that. What began as public health measures have become instruments of social control.  

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I see that as rubbish. Just got back from one of our favorite restaurants; the place has been packed to the gills with us vaccinated geezers.

 

We went down to the Central Cal coast for a week last week. People are on the move; the plane near full down, full back. The hotels report that business is booming right along with vaccination rates.

 

My own observation from our wide-flung cohort is that from the point of view of the  vaccinated, the thing is over. That's how I feel about it. I don't buy those claimed stats one bit.

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My experience with people is that most of the ones that I personally know who are vaccinated are the most afraid of going out.  As far as going out and seeing lots of people out and about how would you know if they are mostly vaccinated people? You don't know that. I can't determine if strangers in public have been vaccinated. The people that don't  want to get the shot or wanted to wait a while have been out doing their thing in public for the last year. Also most of the vaccinated people still wear the mask and panic when everyone else isn't. 

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Personally, I say we wait and see what happens to all of those illegal aliens that were snatched up and injected with the vaccine without their permission.  
 

Great test subjects!!

 

Cat Brules

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3 hours ago, JD Lud said:

...

...

Pollsters at the Morning Consult just did that. Here’s what they found:
...

 

I tend to disregard "polls" that extrapolate data based on 1,900 - 2,200 respondents.

SOURCE

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Indeed.
They have never polled me either.
IMO, they cherry pick their respondents to get the results desired by the person who buys the poll.

I get a bit of vaccine shaming from one of my lodge brothers... who certainly should know better.
But he is a hard-left liberal, so it is to be expected.

I refuse to submit to government mandated demands to accept this experimental vaccine.
As a consequence, I am not allowed in my lodge anymore unless I have a clean C19 test every 3 days.
That ain't gonna happen, either.

CA has mandated these draconian requirements that all lodges in CA are required to follow.
Lodges in other states are open and back to normal. 

Edited by bgavin
edited for 5am typos
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8 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

My experience with people is that most of the ones that I personally know who are vaccinated are the most afraid of going out.  As far as going out and seeing lots of people out and about how would you know if they are mostly vaccinated people? You don't know that. I can't determine if strangers in public have been vaccinated. The people that don't  want to get the shot or wanted to wait a while have been out doing their thing in public for the last year. Also most of the vaccinated people still wear the mask and panic when everyone else isn't. 

 

Or you can just get vaccinated and not worry about how others behave, and if for no other reason, you can stop worrying about transmitting a potentially lethal virus to someone else.

 

It's a shame that people still think we need to take precautions even after the vaccine, as that is even more stupid than those who refused to the precautions as the virus ran rampant through our country with no means to stop it.  But those are not arguments against vaccination.

 

On the original post, it seems that you're missing the point.  Vaccinations have both individual and collective components, in that not only can you not get infected if vaccinated unless you really lose the statistical lottery--the process of rendering you immune also prevents you from getting sick, which gives the virus fewer hosts and has greatly slowed the transmission of the virus.  You may read articles about breakthrough infections, and the number is nonzero although tiny.  What you won't hear is that it is extremely unlikely that anyone infected through breakthrough infection can infect anyone else.  On the former point, if it was just about you, I see no reason to shame anyone who doesn't mind the possibility of getting sick.  On the latter point--that you getting sick can make others sick with a disease that has killed more Americans than WWII, you should be shamed for refusing to vaccinate, just as you would be shamed if your children got measles because they were unvaccinated.

 

We would never enjoy the freedoms we have today and we would still be subjects of a monarchy if our founders didn't believe that we could handle the responsibility that respecting each other's liberty came with.  Our intensely individualistic traditions in America were because we care about each other and sacrifice, just as we did in two world wars to free the world from tyranny and oppression of vicious dictators.

 

If you don't vaccinate, you should be ashamed, and others should use social pressure to encourage you to make the right decision.  That's what morality is all about.  Because the collective effect of vaccination requires as many people as possible to become vaccinated....and the marginal difference between the "without shame" and "with shame" worlds is that more people get vaccinated.

 

That said, I'm enjoying my life without restrictions.  Because I'm immune.

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10 hours ago, Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 said:

I see that as rubbish. Just got back from one of our favorite restaurants; the place has been packed to the gills with us vaccinated geezers.

 

We went down to the Central Cal coast for a week last week. People are on the move; the plane near full down, full back. The hotels report that business is booming right along with vaccination rates.

 

My own observation from our wide-flung cohort is that from the point of view of the  vaccinated, the thing is over. That's how I feel about it. I don't buy those claimed stats one bit.

I do not see it in the over 60 age group.

I do see it in the 40+ age group...

My daughter works in a popular eatery.

Mostly your more liberal folks and early 20s are the one she says are 'freakishly' afraid...

They do come and eat...but are afraid to sit inside, to take the sanitized stand with order # on it, ect.

It really varies from area to area, State by State.

In my opinion, polls are not efficient, unless EVERYONE is polled.

Therefore, I don't take much from them.

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59 minutes ago, Chacón said:

 

Or you can just get vaccinated and not worry about how others behave, and if for no other reason, you can stop worrying about transmitting a potentially lethal virus to someone else.

 

It's a shame that people still think we need to take precautions even after the vaccine, as that is even more stupid than those who refused to the precautions as the virus ran rampant through our country with no means to stop it.  But those are not arguments against vaccination.

 

On the original post, it seems that you're missing the point.  Vaccinations have both individual and collective components, in that not only can you not get infected if vaccinated unless you really lose the statistical lottery--the process of rendering you immune also prevents you from getting sick, which gives the virus fewer hosts and has greatly slowed the transmission of the virus.  You may read articles about breakthrough infections, and the number is nonzero although tiny.  What you won't hear is that it is extremely unlikely that anyone infected through breakthrough infection can infect anyone else.  On the former point, if it was just about you, I see no reason to shame anyone who doesn't mind the possibility of getting sick.  On the latter point--that you getting sick can make others sick with a disease that has killed more Americans than WWII, you should be shamed for refusing to vaccinate, just as you would be shamed if your children got measles because they were unvaccinated.

 

We would never enjoy the freedoms we have today and we would still be subjects of a monarchy if our founders didn't believe that we could handle the responsibility that respecting each other's liberty came with.  Our intensely individualistic traditions in America were because we care about each other and sacrifice, just as we did in two world wars to free the world from tyranny and oppression of vicious dictators.

 

If you don't vaccinate, you should be ashamed, and others should use social pressure to encourage you to make the right decision.  That's what morality is all about.  Because the collective effect of vaccination requires as many people as possible to become vaccinated....and the marginal difference between the "without shame" and "with shame" worlds is that more people get vaccinated.

 

That said, I'm enjoying my life without restrictions.  Because I'm immune.

All I can say to you is I am not and will not be ashamed for not taking an UNPROVEN/NEW vaccine.

When we make our way South to shoot PCC with the PP...you will probably want to keep your distance.

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1 hour ago, Chacón said:

On the latter point--that you getting sick can make others sick with a disease that has killed more Americans than WWII, you should be shamed for refusing to vaccinate

If you're going to grab BS statistics out of the air then put them in context

407,000 killed in WW2 population 140million = 2.9% of the population

To compare it to WW2 9,600,000 people would have had to die from covid!!!!! You're shaming missed the mark. Try again.

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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1 hour ago, Chacón said:

That said, I'm enjoying my life without restrictions.  Because I'm immune.

All you people who have gotten vaccinated fail to admit or accept the fact that this is a virus. It has and will continue to mutate. Like influenza they will have to continue to get the "new improved vaccine" each year. You are potentially only immune to the virus version they made the vaccine for.

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3 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

All you people who have gotten vaccinated fail to admit or accept the fact that this is a virus. It has and will continue to mutate. Like influenza they will have to continue to get the "new improved vaccine" each year. You are potentially only immune to the virus version they made the vaccine for.

 

Nope, the data show that I am immune even to newer and more contagious variants.  I don't know where you got some other idea, but whoever told you that is a liar.  Such an argument might seem inviting as its structure is sound, but it's factually untrue.

 

3 hours ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

All I can say to you is I am not and will not be ashamed for not taking an UNPROVEN/NEW vaccine.

When we make our way South to shoot PCC with the PP...you will probably want to keep your distance.

 

The data are published from all over the world, from all sorts of sources, and from hundreds of millions of doses given.  You'd be hard pressed to find anything more "proven" than that.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself that you won't take a little needle prick for your fellow people.

 

Actually that's been the greatest thing about the pandemic--learning who actually cares about their fellow people and who doesn't.

 

The mask mandates, lockdowns, and all that other nonsense should have never happened, but those are not arguments against vaccination.  Those were attempts to bandaid the problem.  The vaccines are the solution.

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11 minutes ago, Chacón said:

Nope, the data show that I am immune even to newer and more contagious variants.

You have absolutely no understanding of virus's! Explain to me why you need a flu shot every year if once vaccinated you're immune?

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26 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

You have absolutely no understanding of virus's! Explain to me why you need a flu shot every year if once vaccinated you're immune?

To add to the response from the 1st party...

From the CDC.GOV web page.

 

What We Are Still Learning
  • We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19.
  • We are also still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines protect people.
  • We are still learning how many people have to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before the population can be considered protected (population immunity).
  • We are still learning how effective the vaccines are against new variants of the virus that causes COVID-19.

20210513_132231.jpg

Edited by Singin' Sue 71615
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Just now, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

You have absolutely no understanding of virus's! Explain to me why you need a flu shot every year if once vaccinated you're immune?

 

Nobody "needs" a flu shot.  Influenza is a different kind of virus than SARS-CoV-2.  The flu shot is developed by making an educated guess at best as to what the next season's virus will look like.  Sometimes it's very successful and others it isn't even close.

 

The technology used by the COVID-19 vaccines is very different.  And the data--because of the ongoing campaign to gather it--are far more robust.  Therefore, what we know, empirically, from observing hundreds of millions of people, is that the COVID-19 vaccine is highly effective--way more than a flu shot and in fact better than the measles vaccine--at preventing COVID-19 infection.

 

Analogies are fine but they need to be to relevant information.  Even if no flu shot ever worked, that tells you nothing about this virus or the efficacy of the vaccines for it.  Only looking at the data can do that.  And the data, like I said, from decentralized sources, all over the world, are available for you to see for yourself.  You do not need to rely on the media (and maybe you shouldn't).

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20 minutes ago, Singin' Sue 71615 said:

To add to the response from the 1st party...

From the CDC.GOV web page.

 

What We Are Still Learning
  • We are still learning how well vaccines prevent you from spreading the virus that causes COVID-19 to others, even if you do not have symptoms. Early data show that vaccines help keep people with no symptoms from spreading COVID-19.
  • We are also still learning how long COVID-19 vaccines protect people.
  • We are still learning how many people have to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before the population can be considered protected (population immunity).
  • We are still learning how effective the vaccines are against new variants of the virus that causes COVID-19.

20210513_132231.jpg

 

All of that is very old information from the government.  The studies showing that the vaccine is highly effective at preventing me from spreading the virus to others have been published and are still being published.

 

Saying "we are still learning" does not negate the basis of knowledge we have now.  Science is always subject to change.  Saying that we are not completely certain does not mean that the contrary is correct--it simply reflects the caution scientists have in the process of science, which is method of analysis that depends on continued experimentation and observation.

 

As I said many times above, we need to look at the data.  The data are the truth.  Opinions or representation of what the data show are not data.  Media accounts are not data.  Government websites are not data.  Data are the raw facts from observation.  And those raw facts showed in my community that over 99.2% of people who were vaccinated did not get COVID-19 at any stage of their vaccination series.  That is too big a number to be a coincidence.

 

It doesn't mean we throw caution to the wind, as all life decisions come with some non-zero risk.  But I drove to work today (risk).  I go outside during thunderstorms (risk). And on and on.

Edited by Chacón
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13 minutes ago, Chacón said:

It doesn't mean we throw caution to the wind, as all life decisions come with some non-zero risk.  But I drove to work today (risk).  I go outside during thunderstorms (risk). And on and on.

I've been doing that since this began. And no mask unless mandated by the business. The FDA and CDC have not formally approved this junk beyond "emergency use only". You keep referencing all your "data" give us some links.

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8 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I've been doing that since this began. And no mask unless mandated by the business. The FDA and CDC have not formally approved this junk beyond "emergency use only". You keep referencing all your "data" give us some links.

 

The CDC can't authorize anything.  It isn't a regulatory agency.  And you're right, an EUA isn't an approval.  But why do we need the government's approval?  The data show that the vaccines work very well.  Hundreds of millions of people, including me, have taken the vaccine.  Why would I need the government to tell me it's okay?

 

Rumor has it that aspirin couldn't get approved today due to side effects.  I don't know if that's true, but I love aspirin when I get a headache and I suspect I'm not alone.  I don't need the government's approval.

 

Tell me what claim you want supported with links and I'll be happy to do it.  There are studies all over the world showing the efficacy of the various authorized vaccines as being very high, studies back to at least March showing reduced household transmission from the vaccinated (two I found inside of 15 seconds on the internet from two different continents), and my opinion about the flu shots is so well established as to be common knowledge.  So which is it that you take issue with?

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2 hours ago, Chacón said:

You should be ashamed of yourself that you won't take a little needle prick for your fellow people

This statement right here put you on my ignore list.

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On 3/22/2021 at 5:16 PM, Alpo said:

The president said that non-white people are stupider than white people?

Nah he would never do that. Nor would Lyndon Johnson. :rolleyes:

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Two fearless American characteristics are that we are Individualist and Team Players.

Seems to me that mind set and attitude are a play here.

Do we lean more toward our Individualism or Teamanship ?

 

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3 hours ago, Chacón said:

 

Nope, the data show that I am immune even to newer and more contagious variants.  I don't know where you got some other idea, but whoever told you that is a liar.  Such an argument might seem inviting as its structure is sound, but it's factually untrue.

 

 

The data are published from all over the world, from all sorts of sources, and from hundreds of millions of doses given.  You'd be hard pressed to find anything more "proven" than that.

 

You should be ashamed of yourself that you won't take a little needle prick for your fellow people.

 

Actually that's been the greatest thing about the pandemic--learning who actually cares about their fellow people and who doesn't.

 

The mask mandates, lockdowns, and all that other nonsense should have never happened, but those are not arguments against vaccination.  Those were attempts to bandaid the problem.  The vaccines are the solution.

Less than 8% of my entire state has gotten the virus over the last 15 months.  Less than 1% died from it.  Why do I need to get a vaccine to protect others when 92% of others are not getting sick ?  Evidently it is not as contagious as advertised. 

 

My son got it and no one else did, perhaps most of my family is already immune, so why do I need a vaccine?

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2 hours ago, Trigger Mike said:

Less than 8% of my entire state has gotten the virus over the last 15 months.  Less than 1% died from it.  Why do I need to get a vaccine to protect others when 92% of others are not getting sick ?  Evidently it is not as contagious as advertised. 

 

My son got it and no one else did, perhaps most of my family is already immune, so why do I need a vaccine?

 

Same reason you need auto insurance to drive on the public roadway--to protect others against potentially catastrophic, even if unlikely events.

 

That said, if you're citing the death statistics, you've also been fed another lie--that death is the only complication.  Certainly having permanent heart/lung damage is far worse than death.  Suffering is over for the dead.

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To me, it's not a controversy. If you don't want to get vaccinated, you won't.

 

I did without a second thought. My assesment of the hardshell geezers here at SASS that most did, too. To  me, it was polio, smallpox, Covid, whatever. Just a vaccine. If it's an 'experiment', it's one that has been administered to hundreds of millions, successfully. So it's not an experiment anymore.

 

We're booking a river cruise in a far land for next year. One couple is excited to come along. It'd be great group. She said last night, they'll probably make us get vaccinated. No problem, says I. (She's one of the few we know who won't). Maybe they will. If you can't go, let us know, we'll go with somebody else. You can complain about the US, but Bulgaria and Serbia and Germany won't care....

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59 minutes ago, Chacón said:

 

Same reason you need auto insurance to drive on the public roadway--to protect others against potentially catastrophic, even if unlikely events.

 

 

You're mixing apples and soup bowls here. My driving without insurance doesn't make someone else get into an accident. 

On the other hand, if I'm immune, HOW could I spread a disease I don't have to someone else? 

But you're right about one thing, I don't care about other people,..... and whether or not they're scared. Some people are scared of ANYTHING. Some people won't leave the house, even before the Zombie Apocalypse came about. 

Some people are afraid to drive a car. Some people are afraid that my guns are going to spontaneously jump up and start shooting them. 

I said it before in this and other threads, I WILL NOT get the shot. I DON'T wear a mask. All the statistics that you can find or invent don't make me susceptible to the Covid.  And anybody who doesn't like it can......

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