Rube Burrows Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Does anyone here shoot a Real Winchester 1887 shotgun? If so, what kind of loads do you shoot out of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I do, on occasion. I sent it to Coyote Cap, who among other things lengthened the chamber and forcing cone for modern shells. If I recall correctly, he said mild smokeless loads would be okay, but since I can't remember clearly, I don't do that. I generally use either magtech all brass shells or AAs trimmed back to 2.5" with black powder loading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I don't shoot one at matches, but I own my Grandfathers 10 ga. I have only loaded real black and pyrodex for powder. I went light on the shot, I think 1oz I also loaded some slugs. My Grandfather could only find high brass smokless loads at the end and that's what he shot, gun is a little loose so I only used about 60 gr loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 11 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said: I don't shoot one at matches, but I own my Grandfathers 10 ga. I have only loaded real black and pyrodex for powder. I went light on the shot, I think 1oz I also loaded some slugs. My Grandfather could only find high brass smokless loads at the end and that's what he shot, gun is a little loose so I only used about 60 gr loads. It your gun a 87 10 gauge, or is it a later 1901? The 01 was specifically made for smokeless, although probably for shorter shells that what modern ones are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 1 minute ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: It your gun a 87 10 gauge, or is it a later 1901? The 01 was specifically made for smokeless, although probably for shorter shells that what modern ones are. Mine is an 87, not made for smokeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I have both 10 and 12 ga...Will go the black powder way...The 10 ga are 1901s...Seem to have 3 or 4 of them...They breed... Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Winchester 1887 (mfg. in 1897). 1897 barrel with lengthened forcing cone for shooting 2.75" AA/STS hulls reloaded with 55gr. FFg and 1.125 oz. #6 shot. (butt plate replaced with one cast by Lindholm Bros.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I wish I had an original. Would love to have a one in 10 ga. Right now I'll have to settle for shooting my reproductions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I do, on occasion shoot an original Winchester '87. Usually, I use it for the Plainsman Side match. However, when I had wrist surgery and went to EOT, I shot smokeless in it. The shells were the equivalent of low recoil AA loads. Here is a photo taken by Black Jack McGinnis. You can see I had issues bending my wrist to lever. So, I used my thumb instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Ben Sunday (R.I.P.) had an '87. Gunsmith Lonnie Amman put a different barrel on it (Marlin??) so he could shoot AA's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: Ben Sunday (R.I.P.) had an '87. Gunsmith Lonnie Amman put a different barrel on it (Marlin??) so he could shoot AA's. The '97 barrel on mine was installed for that purpose. Winchester barrel threads are the same for both models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 Have three 1887's (1888, 1891 and 1897) all 12 gauge (and TL - No, I do not need a 10 gauge!). I have been shooting the 1891 vintage 1887 since 2001. All of them have had the forcing cone lengthened. I have always used Win Low Noise, Low recoil (AA12FL8, Featherlights) in it. I have shot the other two a couple of times. The 1888 vintage 1887 has the single extractor and the shell will sometimes hang on ejection. The 1897 vintage 1887 does not "feel" as smooth as the 1891 vintage 1887. I also have a Coyote Cap 1887 but I prefer the one mentioned above. None of the originals have had any modifications other than the forcing cones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Gun Barney, SASS #2428 Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 I have a '87 (not a '01) in 10ga. Somebody in the past 130 years or so cut the barrel down. When I bought it, there was a not so greatly fitted homemade stock on it (that had obviously been there a long time), but it came with a brand new stock blank. I had a local smith finish fitting the stock (it was already milled to fit the receiver but had a minimum of 3/16" extra wood all over it). The wood was too nice for me to mess up. The pic below is the original wood, not the new stock. This isn't a museum piece, it is a shooter... and a fun one at that. Having a bad case of CRS and cant recall my BP load for it at the moment. I do know that a few shots on a still day will obscure the entire range. Better remember where the next targets are cuz you aint gonna see them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 28, 2021 Share Posted January 28, 2021 My first year 12 gauge 1887 that I litely took from wall hanger to shooter. I've shot it in a couple of matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Lizard Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said: Have three 1887's (1888, 1891 and 1897) all 12 gauge (and TL - No, I do not need a 10 gauge!). I have been shooting the 1891 vintage 1887 since 2001. All of them have had the forcing cone lengthened. I have always used Win Low Noise, Low recoil (AA12FL8, Featherlights) in it. Darn you take all the fun out of it....Maybe I should Will you one when I kick the bucket.... Texas Lizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 3 hours ago, Texas Lizard said: Darn you take all the fun out of it....Maybe I should Will you one when I kick the bucket.... Texas Lizard OK, maybe then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 29, 2021 Share Posted January 29, 2021 I shot an original 1887 12-ga 2nd series (1891) for a couple of years. I trimmed Rem STS hulls to 2-3/8" (where it starts to roll) and loaded 1 ounce over 1/2" felt wad and 45 grains of FFg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 My first year gun in action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Action sequence to last pic with 2 in the air, same gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 One currently in an auction : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 I have one that I had a long forcing cone cut. But with the two-shell limit and without the "load two" mod, it just isn't worth the bother. I have often contended that '87 shooters should be allowed to stoke the magazine full under the clock and then start shuckin'! The original is marked W.F & Co. Exp, but there are so many guns that were faked out there that I discount it having been used that way. I am pretty well content to use my Baikal sxs. Stay well and safe, Pards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireball #7709 Life Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 2 hours ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said: One currently in an auction : That'll buff out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Trailrider #896 said: I have often contended that '87 shooters should be allowed to stoke the magazine full under the clock and then start shuckin'! I fully agree. 97 shooters should be able to do so as well. Yes, the rules say you can if the stage directions say it's okay, but I think I've been to exactly two shoots where it was ever so written. It should just blanket be allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: I fully agree. 97 shooters should be able to do so as well. Yes, the rules say you can if the stage directions say it's okay, but I think I've been to exactly two shoots where it was ever so written. It should just blanket be allowed. LOL. I hope that day never comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: LOL. I hope that day never comes. Why? What is so bad about allowing 87 and 97 shooters to load up their magazines on the clock? I truly don't see what the problem is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Why? What is so bad about allowing 87 and 97 shooters to load up their magazines on the clock? I truly don't see what the problem is. I think 97s and hammerless doubles are on pretty even footing right now and I see no reason to potentially change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 16 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said: I think 97s and hammerless doubles are on pretty even footing right now and I see no reason to potentially change that. On the one hand, I don't think allowing 87 and 97 shooters to stoke on the clock would give them an advantage. But even if it does, so what? I mean, the conventional wisdom is that a short stroked 73 will outperform any other SASS legal rifle. Should we disallow short strokes so that there is better "parity" between rifles? What about certain features that some pistols have that others don't? The equal footing argument doesn't hold water for rifles, pistols or even shooting styles. Why is it so imperative for shotguns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 8 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: On the one hand, I don't think allowing 87 and 97 shooters to stoke on the clock would give them an advantage. But even if it does, so what? I mean, the conventional wisdom is that a short stroked 73 will outperform any other SASS legal rifle. Should we disallow short strokes so that there is better "parity" between rifles? What about certain features that some pistols have that others don't? The equal footing argument doesn't hold water for rifles, pistols or even shooting styles. Why is it so imperative for shotguns? The difference is I’m advocating for things remaining as they are you’re advocating for change, both in terms of allowing stoking on the clock and potentially eliminating short strokes. Since you’re the one asking for changes I think the burden is on you to explain why those changes are needed, not on me for advocating leaving things as they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: The difference is I’m advocating for things remaining as they are you’re advocating for change, both in terms of allowing stoking on the clock and potentially eliminating short strokes. Since you’re the one asking for changes I think the burden is on you to explain why those changes are needed, not on me for advocating leaving things as they are. Actually, I never advocated for the elimination of short strokes. I used them as a counterpoint to your comment about shotgun parity. And while I do believe that stoking of shotguns on the clock should be allowed, I am not agitating for the rules to be changed. I also point out that is technically allowed under the rules when stated that it's allowed, but it hardly ever is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 RE: the '87 at auction: Seems awfully high for it's condition. On the stoking subject - I shot with a club that allowed it all the time. There is NO time advantage to do so, just a lot of fun. When I would do it with the '87, I told the spotters and TO to "smoke 'em if you got 'em"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kloehr Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said: The difference is I’m advocating for things remaining as they are you’re advocating for change, both in terms of allowing stoking on the clock and potentially eliminating short strokes. Since you’re the one asking for changes I think the burden is on you to explain why those changes are needed, not on me for advocating leaving things as they are. I'll butt in to say I like the visual action of loading as you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 1 minute ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Actually, I never advocated for the elimination of short strokes. I used them as a counterpoint to your comment about shotgun parity. And while I do believe that stoking of shotguns on the clock should be allowed, I am not agitating for the rules to be changed. I also point out that is technically allowed under the rules when stated that it's allowed, but it hardly ever is. I think they're great guns (87s). I wish I had one, but two at a time seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 28 minutes ago, Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L said: RE: the '87 at auction: Seems awfully high for it's condition. On the stoking subject - I shot with a club that allowed it all the time. There is NO time advantage to do so, just a lot of fun. When I would do it with the '87, I told the spotters and TO to "smoke 'em if you got 'em"! Good grief... I got mine for 650, and while it would not feed from the magazine, it was at least shootable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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