Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

No Men's Catgegory


Snakebite

Recommended Posts

I'm aware that there are no "Men's" categories in SASS. It's been beat to death over the years. A Female/woman/Lady can shoot Senior or Ladies Senior, Silver Senior or Ladies Silver Senior, etc, etc. Can a Female/woman/Lady shoot Elder Statesman, Gran Petron, etc, etc? Seems right. When making out Entry forms for Annual match should it have as a selection. Men's____, Ladies____, Boy____ Girl____? If a Female/Woman/Lady selects Elder Statesman and selects Ladies____. What category is she shooting in? This whole thing is a mess since names have been attached to the Age Based categories. 

 

Snakebite

Link to post
Share on other sites

You can eliminate the potential for that conflict by listing categories only.  That makes it obvious what the applicant has chosen.  This is the list from our application.
image.thumb.png.e316f885647ec603d0e627cab54be789.png
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

in a way similar to US Air Force where all genders are referred to as Airmen

 

In the navy, Ensign through Lt. Commander is addressed as Mr. Smith, even if the officer in question is a lady.

However, she is still called Ma'am and NOT Sir.   Star Trek The Next Generation got it wrong.

 

I guess TOS got it wrong too, as Spock did call her "Miss Uhura," at least once.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ozark Shark said:

You can eliminate the potential for that conflict by listing categories only.  That makes it obvious what the applicant has chosen.  This is the list from our application.
image.thumb.png.e316f885647ec603d0e627cab54be789.png
 

Ridiculous isn’t it??

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Ozark Shark said:

You can eliminate the potential for that conflict by listing categories only.  That makes it obvious what the applicant has chosen.  This is the list from our application.
image.thumb.png.e316f885647ec603d0e627cab54be789.png
 

So, can a Female/Woman/Lady sign up in ANY of the categories listed in either the left or right column?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snakebite said:

So, can a Female/Woman/Lady sign up in ANY of the categories listed in either the left or right column?

 

Why not? For the time being, this is still America. 

 

Since this game isn't a violent contest of physical strength, there's no valid reason to have gendered categories. Like someone else said earlier, the ladies are perfectly capable of shooting just as good as the men and some better.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Further more... if there is a minimum number of entrants required in each category and it becomes necessary to fold someone back because there are not enough entries in their category, can you fold a Female/women/Lady back into one of the categories in the Left column?

 

IMO this idea of there being no men's category is just not a good idea. Kinda like defining things using caliber designations rather than cartridge designations. Of course the Females/Women/Ladies have twice as many categories as their male counterpart. If there are only two Senior FC GF men signed up and it takes 3, and their are 3 LFC GF signed up, do the men get rolled into the LFC GF?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

So, can a Female/Woman/Lady sign up in ANY of the categories listed in either the left or right column?

 

Yes, but keeping in mind that:
"Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, and El Patron/La Patrona."

Why would they?

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Tall Tale Todd said:

 

Why not? For the time being, this is still America. 

 

Since this game isn't a violent contest of physical strength, there's no valid reason to have gendered categories. Like someone else said earlier, the ladies are perfectly capable of shooting just as good as the men and some better.

Great, can you shoot in the Cowgirl category? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Great, can you shoot in the Cowgirl category? 

 

NO...(although I was asked that same question due to the gender of my kidney donor) ;)

 

"Competitors may compete within any category for which they qualify."

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

Yes, but keeping in mind that:
"Exceptions to the category mandate include Buckaroo/Buckarette, Junior, Elder Statesman/Grand Dame, Cattle Baron/Cattle Baroness, and El Patron/La Patrona."

Why would they?

Yes... this whole thing was brought on by the question of how to deal with the entry of a Women that has signed up in category that did not have the designation "Ladies" in front of it. Such as example. A woman signs up for senior. or Cowboy, or Duelist etc. The entries ask the shooter to check one: Ladies____, Boys_____, Girls_____. It was queried as why there was not a Men's____ box to check. It got me to thinking about it AGAIN. Rolling things back becomes a real PIA.

 

SB

Link to post
Share on other sites

I know most of this... but it's a slow day. Can the women use the men's toilet at a Sanctioned SASS match? :ph34r:

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

 

In the navy, Ensign through Lt. Commander is addressed as Mr. Smith, even if the officer in question is a lady.

That sure seems odd, especially if the sailor’s name is something like Johnson

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

I know most of this... but it's a slow day. Can the women use the men's toilet at a Sanctioned SASS match? :ph34r:

 

I'll repeat this question...Why would they?

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

That sure seems odd, especially if the sailor’s name is something like Johnson

You will need to come to the Fort Miller match this Year. It is built around the Johnson Family reunion theme. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, Snakebite said:

You will need to come to the Fort Miller match this Year. It is built around the Johnson Family reunion theme. 

I’ve always wanted to shoot with you guys. Especially the old school match y’all throw 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

I'll repeat this question...Why would they?

"...for which they qualify", that's the point. We say that women qualify for non lady designated categories as well as Women's designated categories. Men don't have that qualification given them.  You ask why would they... I know dern well that you have seen women shoot in the same categories that only the men can shoot in. So back at cha.... why would they?

 

sb

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I’ve always wanted to shoot with you guys. Especially the old school match y’all throw 

We expect to release entries the first of the year. Better get in early. we fill up most years at 130 shooters. This year due to the Covid requirement and the need to get things going we have put a limit at 80 shooters on the match. I expect to fill up very quickly.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

"...for which they qualify", that's the point. We say that women qualify for non lady designated categories as well as Women's designated categories. Men don't have that qualification given them.  You ask why would they... I know dern well that you have seen women shoot in the same categories that only the men can shoot in. So back at cha.... why would they?

 

sb

 

My "repeat" question was regarding outhouse use.

 

As to "women shooting in the same categories that only the men can shoot in" ... there are no such categories.

 The first time I saw a lady opt to shoot in a so-called "men's" category (Duelist) was at Stampede in NV in the late '90's.
She did that to compete directly against her SO ... IIRC, she kicked his tail. ;)

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

My "repeat" question was regarding outhouse use.

 

As to "women shooting in the same categories that only the men can shoot in" ... there are no such categories.

 The first time I saw a lady opt to shoot in a "men's" category (Duelist) was at Stampede in NV in the late '90's.
She did that to compete directly against her SO ... IIRC, she kicked his tail. ;)

Yes... misspoke... OK.. I gotta go to a CCW class so I'll let it lay. But I still wonder about rolling a Ladies category back into a standard category that is populated with men. I've had to do it in LFCGF a couple of times. I always ask the Lady first, but it sure POed the men because she Kicked their @$$ every time..... way to go Kate. Take care.. Merry Christmas.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So a woman can compete/sign up for (as an example) Lady Gunfighter or Gunfighter, whichever they choose.  But a man can only sign up for Gunfighter.  I understand the “why would they” argument, but I can also see how it does seem wrong that a woman has a choice that a man doesn’t.  And for anyone that thinks a woman can’t compete just look at the overall times, I’m always being beat by quite a few women that I shoot with, they’re always in the top 10, and usually in the top 5.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Snakebite said:

I know most of this... but it's a slow day. Can the women use the men's toilet at a Sanctioned SASS match? :ph34r:

Only if she is shooting gunfighter..... lol

Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW!!!!  So there are clubs that have 50 categories.  Hmmm, pick your category wisely and you can come in 1st place at a match.  In this current time of CAS, with how good competitors are in almost all categories between males and females, why do we need male and female categories?   Show up, strap on, and go "mano y mano!"  There are ladies in SASS who just love putting a "whooping" on the "boys" in the Overall at a match.   "The times are a changing."

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

So a woman can compete/sign up for (as an example) Lady Gunfighter or Gunfighter, whichever they choose.  But a man can only sign up for Gunfighter.  I understand the “why would they” argument, but I can also see how it does seem wrong that a woman has a choice that a man doesn’t.  And for anyone that thinks a woman can’t compete just look at the overall times, I’m always being beat by quite a few women that I shoot with, they’re always in the top 10, and usually in the top 5.  

I have heard take of lady shooters that choose to shoot against men because either they are way better than their competition and either want to give the other lady’s a chance and/or want to test their skill against tougher competition. In other cases, I’ve heard that some women choose to shoot in men categories when their chosen category has no competition. This is all rumor and speculation on my part. I haven’t seen it as of yet, nor any complaints or issues with the current system that seems to be working just fine 

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Snakebite said:

Great, can you shoot in the Cowgirl category? 

 

2 hours ago, Tequila Shooter said:

And for anyone that thinks a woman can’t compete just look at the overall times, I’m always being beat by quite a few women that I shoot with, they’re always in the top 10, and usually in the top 5.  

 

After God made us, did Samuel Colt not make us equal?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Anyone who thinks the Ladies can't compete on an even footing with men is kidding themselves! I've trained a lot of women to shoot and they can whoop us any time!

Link to post
Share on other sites

At a local club here we have roughly 30-35 shooters. There's so many categories that everyone gets first or second place. It's too much, it's time to go back to a little bit more like the early days!

Two Handed

Duelist

Gunfighter

Black Powder

Junior

Buckaroo

Link to post
Share on other sites

Snakebite, I'm entirely clear what you're getting at here.  Are you griping that a woman can choose to shoot with the men, but a man can't choose to shoot with the women?  Are you getting politically correct here on gender identity? What if a woman identifies as man?  Or a biological man as having no gender at all? Or is this strictly an issue with semantics? You know I love you like a brother, and we've had our share of disagreements, and maybe my feeble brain just can't wrap itself around your intent with all of the other noise floating around the landscape, but would you mind being really straightforward as to what the issue is and explain it as if your talking to the feeble-minded?

 

Thanks.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't get me started.  I quit bowling in tournaments when ABC decided that there could no longer be a men's tournament.  Just the state tournament, and the ladies state tournament.  Men bowling against men is illegal, but women can bowl against whoever they want to.  What kind of sense is that supposed to make?  It doesn't matter who can beat who.  It's stupid.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Heres an idea.

Not directed at anyone in particular; but simply shouting into the ether.

 

This is akin to the thread a while back complaining that the aged, geriatric shooters were taking all the category wins because they could shoot any age based category and younger shooters were limited in their category choices.

 

Women's categories exist because as a large generalization; women are TYPICALLY less experienced in the shooting sports. 

There are exceptions to EVERY general statement of course.

 

Just like AGE protections exist because  TYPICALLY as people age their skill sets decline and they slow down.

 

BUT any aged shooter/ ANY female shooter that are NOT typical and chooses to enter into a lesser protected category and compete against what is TYPICALLY understood to be stiffer competition should be welcomed with open arms - not told to stay in their lane.

 

TL:DR 

If competing against a female frightens you; that's your issue - don't attempt to make it theirs.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

Snakebite, I'm entirely clear what you're getting at here.  Are you griping that a woman can choose to shoot with the men, but a man can't choose to shoot with the women?  Are you getting politically correct here on gender identity? What if a woman identifies as man?  Or a biological man as having no gender at all? Or is this strictly an issue with semantics? You know I love you like a brother, and we've had our share of disagreements, and maybe my feeble brain just can't wrap itself around your intent with all of the other noise floating around the landscape, but would you mind being really straightforward as to what the issue is and explain it as if your talking to the feeble-minded?

 

Thanks.

 

Just got back home. Ha... I could personally care less what anyone shoots. What brought this on was our entry form for the upcoming Fort Miller match. We have always had you select a category, then check a box... Boy's, Girls or Ladies. I was ask why there was no Men's box.  I said that there are no Men's category so there is no reason for a Men's box. But if that is the case then how about Elder Stateman etc.... Well, if a woman can shoot in Senior because there are no Men's categories, or choose to shoot in Ladies Senior , then why doesn't it follow with the other age based categories? Those categories are Protected.... but that exemption is in reference to requiring them to have a minimum number of shooters. OK, a shooter can shoot in any category that they qualify for. Well for over 30 yrs woman have always qualified to shoot in the "Base" categories. Remember, there are no men's categories.  I can find nothing in the rules that would restrict a woman from shooting in any of these categories. Bottom line.... should the entry form have a box marked Men's to go beside the boxes marked Boys, Girls and Ladies?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.