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Pat Riot, SASS #13748

Stolen, False Valor Question

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How do you vets feel about this, should I wear it or not?   

Wear it. If folks thank you just smile and move on. 
 

I think it’s great that people appreciate the military and those that served. I think it’s great that you have considered this issue and asked about it. 
False Valor is not wearing a hat to support a ship or a unit. You are showing support, not taking credit for anything. Enjoy wearing the hat and thank you for supporting our history and heritage. :)

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OLG with much respect, SO's use a multitude of guns depending on the mission.  The only "AR" type gun used is the M4.  Navy SO's use everything from .45 cal 1911's to H&K's and Sigs, along with the standard issue Beretta 92F and others as needed.  If conducting CQB where multiple targets might be engaged (target rich environment ;)) a 1911 with a 8 round magazine would probably be the gun of choice.  Seals are given carte blanche with regards to equipment, and teams will usually outfit with the same guns to allow for ammo and magazine compatibility.  

 

Also, thanks to folks who willingly admit that they didn't serve.  It's an insult to all Vets when someone claims "stolen/false valor".

 

My remarks were in reference to civilian law enforcement agencies. 

This, I have first hand knowledge and hands on because of family.

I was never in the military. Spent a good number of years as an LEO.

Have sent 3 sons to war on numerous tours. One son was with the1st Reg, 75th Rangers.

Respectfully, 

OLG 

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"Also, thanks to folks who willingly admit that they didn't serve.  It's an insult to all Vets when someone claims "stolen/false valor"."

 

This brings up something that I really want to know how vets feel about it. First off, I'm not a military vet. I tried to join the Air Force post Nam but bad sinus' washed me out for flight training. This past summer we visited the USS Silversides in Muskegon, Mi, while there I purchased a ball cap in the museum to support keeping her open. Now if I wear that cap in public I get people coming up and thanking me for my service! I try to tell them it's a museum but most just say  "well Thank You anyhow" It makes me feel so bad when they do this I pretty much quit wearing the hat. I supported the Silversides because my dad was in WWII and I have a cousin that's a 20yr bubblehead not to try to steal valor. How do you vets feel about this, should I wear it or not?   

I suggest you see if you can find a cap or a T shirt that says "USS Silversides WWII" or something like that. Most folks will understand you're not nearly aged enough to have been in the big one. If someone thanks you for your service, correct them. Don't leave them with the impression that you are in fact a veteran.

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"Also, thanks to folks who willingly admit that they didn't serve.  It's an insult to all Vets when someone claims "stolen/false valor"."

 

This brings up something that I really want to know how vets feel about it. First off, I'm not a military vet. I tried to join the Air Force post Nam but bad sinus' washed me out for flight training. This past summer we visited the USS Silversides in Muskegon, Mi, while there I purchased a ball cap in the museum to support keeping her open. Now if I wear that cap in public I get people coming up and thanking me for my service! I try to tell them it's a museum but most just say  "well Thank You anyhow" It makes me feel so bad when they do this I pretty much quit wearing the hat. I supported the Silversides because my dad was in WWII and I have a cousin that's a 20yr bubblehead not to try to steal valor. How do you vets feel about this, should I wear it or not?   

 

I think wearing one is fine. If someone approaches you, take the opportunity to explain about the museum, how great it is, and that sort of thing. Act as an ambassador for it. "Oh, thank you, but I'm not a vet, the USS Silversides was a WWII sub that is now this really neat museum in Michigan..."

 

Thanks to my youngest daughter, I'm a fan of DCI (Drum Corps International) and my favorite corps is "The Troopers," out of Casper, Wyoming. Per their website, their corps reflects "upon our western military heritage, our uniforms are reminiscent of those worn by the 11th Ohio cavalry, which was stationed near present-day Casper in the late 1800s." Being a history buff, retired military, and Ohio, the fact they are my favorite is pretty obvious. A couple of years back, I purchased a shirt like this one:

 

Classic-Mens_large.jpg.ccb96a5c8f36b0e40fe12a2290d653c8.jpg

 

Every time I wear it, I have to explain what it is, that yes, I was in the military, but no, I was never in the cav. Then I start to explain DCI, and they're either a former band geek and they get excited, or their eyes glaze over.

 

 

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"Then I start to explain DCI, and they're either a former band geek and they get excited, or their eyes glaze over."

 

Nice shirt! Former band parent here (two kids, 8 years) "Game? What game? I'm here for the Band!

 

Thanks for the opinions pards! I will continue to wear the hat without guilt and correct folks when needed. Two quick side notes, though not military, I did do 15 years as a firefighter and 9 as an EMT. And if you're ever in Michigan, head over to Muskegon. They have both the Silversides and the McClain in one display as well as LST393 in another. Well worth the trip!  

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It is only here of late that anyone thanked me for my service and to be honest I'm not sure how to react, as others from my time know some of us were not even welcomed home, in fact it was not a good way to come home in the early 70s.  Even with family we had issues so some of us found it easier not to talk about it an just try to get on with life.  My wife found my discharge from one branch from 1974 and an old set of orders from different branch from right after 1991 (glutten for punishment she ask).  She knew I was prior military because of my VA Comp, but that was all she knew at that time.  But I got off topic, I say thanks back as I get a bit embarrassed and was just wondering am I the only one who reacts this way.  By the way Pat, I was a tail-ender; but as I don't know the person I can't make a judgement.    

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I think wearing one is fine. If someone approaches you, take the opportunity to explain about the museum, how great it is, and that sort of thing. Act as an ambassador for it. "Oh, thank you, but I'm not a vet, the USS Silversides was a WWII sub that is now this really neat museum in Michigan..."

 

Thanks to my youngest daughter, I'm a fan of DCI (Drum Corps International) and my favorite corps is "The Troopers," out of Casper, Wyoming. Per their website, their corps reflects "upon our western military heritage, our uniforms are reminiscent of those worn by the 11th Ohio cavalry, which was stationed near present-day Casper in the late 1800s." Being a history buff, retired military, and Ohio, the fact they are my favorite is pretty obvious. A couple of years back, I purchased a shirt like this one:

 

Classic-Mens_large.jpg.ccb96a5c8f36b0e40fe12a2290d653c8.jpg

 

Every time I wear it, I have to explain what it is, that yes, I was in the military, but no, I was never in the cav. Then I start to explain DCI, and they're either a former band geek and they get excited, or their eyes glaze over.

 

 

I’m not surprised. Civilians these days know very little about the military and are easily confused. I guess it’s due to our smaller volunteer services with only about .5% of the population being in the military. Note how the news media tends to call Marines “soldiers”.  
I can see how people might assume that shirt bore some connected to the 11th Armored Cav. 

I recall when 4 army infantrymen; were killed at the outbreak of one of our Mideast ops. One of the major networks reported the 4 military officers were killed. It was an E6, an E4 and 2 PFCs. But apparently whoever made the report, and I ‘m pretty sure it was NBC, figured everybody in uniform with a gun was an Officer. Like cops. They’re called Officers right? I saw the report 3 times before somebody changed to to “soldiers”.

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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"Then I start to explain DCI, and they're either a former band geek and they get excited, or their eyes glaze over."

 

Nice shirt! Former band parent here (two kids, 8 years) "Game? What game? I'm here for the Band!

 

Thanks for the opinions pards! I will continue to wear the hat without guilt and correct folks when needed. Two quick side notes, though not military, I did do 15 years as a firefighter and 9 as an EMT. And if you're ever in Michigan, head over to Muskegon. They have both the Silversides and the McClain in one display as well as LST393 in another. Well worth the trip!  

 

I also have a baseball cap, and I won't deny leaving more than a few games at the end of the third quarter!

As a firefighter and EMT, you've "fought the good fight" yourself and are deserving of thanks.

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No Poser ever says they were a cook or truck driver. ;)

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No Poser ever says they were a cook or truck driver. ;)

+1   How about boat driver...:lol: :rolleyes: :FlagAm:

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My remarks were in reference to civilian law enforcement agencies. 

This, I have first hand knowledge and hands on because of family.

I was never in the military. Spent a good number of years as an LEO.

Have sent 3 sons to war on numerous tours. One son was with the1st Reg, 75th Rangers.

Respectfully, 

OLG 

 

OLG - your original statement had "SO", I automatically think Special Operator, the official rate of Navy SEALS.  I'm guessing here, but now I'm thinking you meant Security Officer?  I thank you for your service as a LEO, I honestly think that LEO's have a much harder job than I ever had.  Please know that I meant no disrespect to you by my reply, sometimes written words come out differently than a spoken word.  And please thank your sons for me.

 

v/r

TC

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No Poser ever says they were a cook or truck driver. ;)

 

Funny how that works.

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OLG - your original statement had "SO", I automatically think Special Operator, the official rate of Navy SEALS.  I'm guessing here, but now I'm thinking you meant Security Officer?  I thank you for your service as a LEO, I honestly think that LEO's have a much harder job than I ever had.  Please know that I meant no disrespect to you by my reply, sometimes written words come out differently than a spoken word.  And please thank your sons for me.

 

v/r

TC

SO=Sheriff's Office 

OLG 

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You should have asked him what his MOS was. IE 36k20 31G40 etc etc ... You can look those up and they link to enlisted pay grade as well ...

So you can say something like  ... Oh you were a field wireman 36k20?? That would have been the field wire chief E5 (not a wireman) ... a 36k10 would have been an E3 private or E4 specialist wireman .. etc ... 

He should remember his MOS and his rank right?? Just ask what his rank and MOS was when he got out!! Easy to check.

 

I'm assuming he was claiming he was in the Army. Ask him if he had sleeve patches on his fatigues or collar pins!! (think that changed about '68 but you could look that up too).

 

Oh .. and ask him if he had a serial number or used his social security number ... that changed in that era as well IIRC. 

Serial numbers  had 8 digits and prefixs ... like NG(National Guard/US(draftee)/RA(regular army ... a volunteer etc ... There are more ... like ER(enlisted reserves) and probably others but you can look those up too.  

 

To start a conversation ... ask him where he took basic!! Say something like ...  yeah ... my brother was lucky enough to go to Fort Jackson since we lived in Baltimore but he had a buddy who had to go clear accross the country etc etc etc ...

Then you can check on the location from people on the forum ... (like anyone who went to Fort Jackson would know about "drag xss hill" etc ... ) ...

 

Some locations only did specific AIT training and didn't do basic. If he was flagged to go to VNam he would have been told that at the end of basic. They would have told him his AIT school was going to be JWT (jungle warfare training) ... That is something those people would not forget. 

 

I'm sure many people on this forum can think of a bunch of other things to ask if they really thought about it.  

 

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You should have asked him what his MOS was. IE 36k20 31G40 etc etc ... You can look those up and they link to enlisted pay grade as well ...

So you can say something like  ... Oh you were a field wireman 36k20?? That would have been the field wire chief E5 (not a wireman) ... a 36k10 would have been an E3 private or E4 specialist wireman .. etc ... 

He should remember his MOS and his rank right?? Just ask what his rank and MOS was when he got out!! Easy to check.

 

I'm assuming he was claiming he was in the Army. Ask him if he had sleeve patches on his fatigues or collar pins!! (think that changed about '68 but you could look that up too).

 

Oh .. and ask him if he had a serial number or used his social security number ... that changed in that era as well IIRC. 

Serial numbers  had 8 digits and prefixs ... like NG(National Guard/US(draftee)/RA(regular army ... a volunteer etc ... There are more ... like ER(enlisted reserves) and probably others but you can look those up too.  

 

To start a conversation ... ask him where he took basic!! Say something like ...  yeah ... my brother was lucky enough to go to Fort Jackson since we lived in Baltimore but he had a buddy who had to go clear accross the country etc etc etc ...

Then you can check on the location from people on the forum ... (like anyone who went to Fort Jackson would know about "drag xss hill" etc ... ) ...

 

Some locations only did specific AIT training and didn't do basic. If he was flagged to go to VNam he would have been told that at the end of basic. They would have told him his AIT school was going to be JWT (jungle warfare training) ... That is something those people would not forget. 

 

I'm sure many people on this forum can think of a bunch of other things to ask if they really thought about it.  

 

Amazingly, fakers can never seem to remember their MOS or their First Sgt. They say “Oh it was so long ago I just don’t remember”. Hah!

Some stuff you just don’t forget.

Of course in super secret classified units they don’t even have MOSs.  :lol:

 

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Most people I know don't add the 10/20/30 designator at the end of their MOS. I was a 68W. Technically a 68W30, but never called myself that. Of course, before that, I was a 91W, and before that a 91B, and a medic the entire time.

Asking specific questions can be a good way to find out more, though. Ft. Knox was known for its hills. When I got back from Basic, my uncle, who had also gone to Basic at Ft. Knox in the early sixties, asked me if I knew Agony, Misery and Heartbreak. Yep, I knew 'em well!

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"Also, thanks to folks who willingly admit that they didn't serve.  It's an insult to all Vets when someone claims "stolen/false valor"."

 

This brings up something that I really want to know how vets feel about it. First off, I'm not a military vet. I tried to join the Air Force post Nam but bad sinus' washed me out for flight training. This past summer we visited the USS Silversides in Muskegon, Mi, while there I purchased a ball cap in the museum to support keeping her open. Now if I wear that cap in public I get people coming up and thanking me for my service! I try to tell them it's a museum but most just say  "well Thank You anyhow" It makes me feel so bad when they do this I pretty much quit wearing the hat. I supported the Silversides because my dad was in WWII and I have a cousin that's a 20yr bubblehead not to try to steal valor. How do you vets feel about this, should I wear it or not?   


As a veteran I see nothing wrong with you wearing a command ball cap. Especially for the reasons mentioned. 

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Ask the guy which corp he was in.  The VN vets I know told me VN was divided into sections called corps. They all knew which section they had been stationed in. I think they were numbered. There was a person like you mentioned at my old place of work claiming to have been in ‘Nam. They asked him which corp he had been in. He hesitated and then answered the Army Corp. The other vets said he was lying about his service because he should have answered with a corp section designation. The other vets said I-Corp what the most common, with the letter I being used in place of a 1. I am sure other VN vets can correct any errors on my part. 

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Ask the guy which corp he was in.  The VN vets I know told me VN was divided into sections called corps. They all knew which section they had been stationed in. I think they were numbered. There was a person like you mentioned at my old place of work claiming to have been in ‘Nam. They asked him which corp he had been in. He hesitated and then answered the Army Corp. The other vets said he was lying about his service because he should have answered with a corp section designation. The other vets said I-Corp what the most common, with the letter I being used in place of a 1. I am sure other VN vets can correct any errors on my part. 

There were four Corps Tactical Zones of operation. I Corps being the northernmost and IV corps being in the Delta. I was in III Corps.

As they were designated by Roman numerals they were prounced I Corps, Two Corps, Three Corps, and Four Corps.

Here's a map.

 

 

Edited by Utah Bob #35998
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Note how the news media tends to call Marines “soldiers”.

 

One evening I was watching the news, and the bimbo on TV said the USS Nimitz had over 5,000 troops on board. I grimaced so hard I nearly broke a tooth.

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One evening I was watching the news, and the bimbo on TV said the USS Nimitz had over 5,000 troops on board. I grimaced so hard I nearly broke a tooth.

Musta been crowded. ;)

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Musta been crowded. ;)

Yeah, what with the crew and all the Airedales aboard...

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The Mini-14 came out during the 1970s, but yes it was still too late for Vietnam. They might have run better than the M16s, but nobody would've been able to hit anything with 'em.

Maybe he confused an M2 with a Mini 14.  In 1970-71 when in country I saw a few guys carrying M2's with the stock sawed off to form a pistol grip.

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There were four Corps Tactical Zones of operation. I Corps being the northernmost and IV corps being in the Delta. I was in III Corps.

As they were designated by Roman numerals they were prounced I Corps, Two Corps, Three Corps, and Four Corps.

Here's a map.

 

 

Where?  I was located in Cu Chi, near Cambodia, Dau Tieng, Long Binh & Tay Ninh.  My MOS was 13E; however, after spending a couple of weeks in a mud hole of an artillery FSB supporting Cambodian ops I got an offer from the assistant div signal officer that I couldn't refuse.  I became the radio station engineer for a pirate radio station that had been operated by the 11th ACR in An Loc.  I packed up the equipment & records then set up the equipment in Dau Tieng.  Then I maintained the equipment.   When the 25th was redeployed to HI I was assigned to the 17th FFA MACV.  

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Where?  I was located in Cu Chi, near Cambodia, Dau Tieng, Long Binh & Tay Ninh.  My MOS was 13E; however, after spending a couple of weeks in a mud hole of an artillery FSB supporting Cambodian ops I got an offer from the assistant div signal officer that I couldn't refuse.  I became the radio station engineer for a pirate radio station that had been operated by the 11th ACR in An Loc.  I packed up the equipment & records then set up the equipment in Dau Tieng.  Then I maintained the equipment.   When the 25th was redeployed to HI I was assigned to the 17th FFA MACV.  

Where? Click on the link.

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Another Aussie here....

 

We (largely) get around the problem by pretty much only referring to those who saw "Active service"  as "veterans".  Folks who served but never deployed on operations were/are traditionally referred to as "Ex-Servicemen/women"    Those who DO see "Active service"  receive the appropriate medals.    In my case for Gulf War 1 the "Australian Service medal" "The Australian Active Service Medal" (both with a "Kuwait" clasp on the ribbon) and the Saudi issued "Liberation of Kuwait" medal.  For CIVILIAN wear Aussie vets also receive a little bronze pin called the "RAS Badge"..the "returned from Active Service badge"   (That picture is at least twice real size)

 

RASB.jpg

Edited by Constable Nelson #11784
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One evening I was watching the news, and the bimbo on TV said the USS Nimitz had over 5,000 troops on board. I grimaced so hard I nearly broke a tooth.

 

 

Wikipedia says the full crew plus airwing is 6,012.  3,532 crew & 2,480

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nimitz-class_aircraft_carrier

 

When I was on the Nimitz we had about that number when deployed with all the air wings and Marine Detachment. I used to tell people about 6200 Sailors and Marines. Not an official number but something I had heard.  1976-1980

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Do you know what’s really unfortunate at the agency I work for? It seems that all the vets I knew have all moved on. At my Division, which is still pretty small, I am 1 of 2 military veterans working there out of 25 or so people. The ither guy is a Marine that served in the early 80’s. He doubted the knucklehead’s claims as well. Someday we will be over 100 but judging from what I see this agency has been more interested in hiring other types of people. Not veterans. 
 

Now, the knucklehead in question from my first post. I tried to ask him about where he served in Vietnam months ago. He said he didn’t want to talk about it and I let it go at that. But what really got me was he supposedly also worked commercial fishing boats in Alaska for years. 
One day I made some basic references to life aboard a ship in heavy seas and asked him how high the gunwales were on his fishing boats. He responded with “What’s a gunnel?” I also asked him what berthing was like aboard a fishing boat in Alaska. He got a silly look and changed the subject. 
But what really bugged me was a few days after we got a new guy, the Marine I mentioned above, we were all in the lunchroom talking and the Marine mentioned owning an M14 and that he had wanted one when he was in the Marines because he got to shoot one at the range on a demo day when the Marines got to try older guns to compare them to the more modern guns they had in the 80’s. 
The knucklehead, who never talked much (probably due to his thousand yard stare causing him constipation or something) pipes up with “We used M14’s in Nam. That round would buzz right through a palm tree where that pipsqueak M16 round would barely skin the bark.”

I said “Do you mean the .308 round versus the .223 round?”

He said “Yeah”

Both the Marine and I gave each other quizzical looks and moved on. He doubted Knucklehead’s validity of service as well. He knew as well as I that the Army phased out M14s by 1967/68. 
 

Anyway, he is gone now but since he has been fired he will probably sue so I am sure I haven’t heard the last golf this butthead. 
 

 

 

 

I really do hate auto corporations sometimes 

Pat,  I don't know when the M-14 was phased out, but our unit had M-14s as personal weapons when I left in March 1968. 

Of course, we were a helicopter unit supporting the ARVN 9th division and always got the leftovers from other units (until Buddy Evans started hiring the local women to make counterfeit VC flags and other items to  trade to the supply REMFs in Saigon).

 

Duffield

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Pat,  I don't know when the M-14 was phased out, but our unit had M-14s as personal weapons when I left in March 1968. 

Of course, we were a helicopter unit supporting the ARVN 9th division and always got the leftovers from other units (until Buddy Evans started hiring the local women to make counterfeit VC flags and other items to  trade to the supply REMFs in Saigon).

 

Duffield

This guy would have been 18 in 1972. The Army phased out M14s in 1967/8, for the most part...according to internet sources. 
 

Sounds like Buddy was an enterprising young man. :lol:

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No Poser ever says they were a cook or truck driver. ;)

hey I was a truck driver, and all my first Sargent names were Top :lol::P

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When I meet a veteran , the first words that come from my mouth are Welcome Home and the numbers 67-68 if they are slow to respond ,  that means they don’t have a clue about what I’m talking about .  I just keep it simple.

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