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Fence Cutter

LEVER LOCK - Who's Using This ?

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While looking thru the MERCHANT CORNER this morning I stopped and watched the videos for Lever Lock.......

 

Now I'm interested to hear some reviews from those of you who have installed it in your Uberti '73s.

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I bought one thinking it would be something that would stop me from jacking live rounds. Then it was pointed out that you can't unload without lower the hammer for every round; so it will sit in the bad idea box never to be used. Not sure how it was ever approved.

Edited by Tyrel Cody
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If you want to stop jacking rounds out. Practice.

 

Just my opinion. But I think it is a stupid idea.

 

Again. That's just my opinion. Which some might not think much of.

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I don't mind the design or the idea.

It's just not complete.

Add an external mechanism to deactivate the system to allow cycling without hammer drop and you have a winner.

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2 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I don't mind the design or the idea.

It's just not complete.

Add an external mechanism to deactivate the system to allow cycling without hammer drop and you have a winner.

 

I haven't looked closely but one could probably drill a hole in the side plate and deactivate with a pin or something. But then you have an external mod that needs approval.

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I bought one thinking it would be something that would stop me from jacking live rounds. Then it was pointed out that you can't unload without lower the hammer for every round; so it will sit in the bad idea box never to be used. Not sure how it was ever approved.

Tyrel if you'd like me to try that lever lock out for you to see if it works, I'd be happy to. I jack out a round every other couple strings. I dont think my hammer is falling fast enough:ph34r:

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

I haven't looked closely but one could probably drill a hole in the side plate and deactivate with a pin or something. But then you have an external mod that needs approval.

I quickly designed an easy fix for the lever lock design that would include an east west tab that would protrude thru a small slot or hole in the left sideplate.  This would allow deactivation and unloading without requiring an extra tool (on the firing line or at the unloading table).

Yes, it would be an external modification and require approval; but it would allow the lever lock design to fix what I see as an unsafe feature. 

Fix that "flaw" and get approval - I'd buy one (or three).

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In case of miscount while loading a rifle at the LT requiring unloading the rifle completely, the options are:
1) Lower the hammer on each round in order to lever them out

or

2) Remove the magazine endcap.

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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Then there are those of us whom think the design of the '73 is just fine the way it is.  As a retired builder of Rifles for CAS competition, I view it as a solution desperately  looking for a problem.  If you're considering one, I suggest you write ME the check.  That way, at least one of us will be happy :)

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17 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

In case of miscount while loading a rifle at the LT requiring unloading the rifle completely, the options are:
1) Lower the hammer on each round in order to lever them out

or

2) Remove the magazine endcap.

 

So, you can no longer back the rounds out of the loading gate like was possible before?  

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15 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

So, you can no longer back the rounds out of the loading gate like was possible before?  

 

I inadvertently omitted that 3rd option.

 

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I watched some shooters shooting rifles with the lever lock installed this weekend. It appeared to work as designed and there seemed to be fewer jacked rounds from shooters that normally would have jacked a round or two during a 2 day match. There were many naysayers when short strokes came out, now shooters can't live without them. Unless you've seen them function and operated a rifle with multiple hit target arrays don't knock it. 

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I’ve been using this lever lock for months and it works great.  I have not had any issues in functioning in my 73 whether at the loading table, on the firing line or at the unloading table.   I installed one in my grandson’s 73 last month and he runs it just fine.  He would jack a round or two out per match.  None since the installation.  We went over the operation of the device and how it works.   Then we practiced how to load (no difference) unload, and how to show clear at the unloading table.  On the firing line if the lever closes to have the rifle pointed down range (obviously) and pull the trigger to drop the hammer and show clear.  Installation, I am not a smith but installation is straight forward. Some may call it a gimmick but it works for us

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Just out of curiosity, would this device in any way deter the possibilities of OBD inherent in a '66?

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My opinion only: If you want one & like it and you love it fine.

 

As far as saying negative about it just don't buy it and you won't need to say any thing bad about it

 

Have a great day pilgrim's.

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1 hour ago, Jackrabbit Joe #414 said:

My opinion only: If you want one & like it and you love it fine.

 

As far as saying negative about it just don't buy it and you won't need to say any thing bad about it

 

Have a great day pilgrim's.

So when the OP asks for reviews only those who have something good to say should respond?

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Was this available in 1873/1866 guns?

 

This weekend I couldn't see my front sights because of target and background colors. But I can't use a contrasting color on my front sight other than black, white silver, gold (which does not always contrast target colors). Because it creates an unfair advantage to those that forgot their nail polish?

 

Not only does this thing create a disadvantage to other shooters, it is a potential safety concern when you may have to drop a hammer over a live round to get it out at some point in time. ie. You shoot 9 of ten rounds and re-stage your rifle and the lever closes in the process. Instead of operating just the lever, subsequently jacking the live round, you have to pull the trigger and/or drop the hammer to operate the lever.

 

If you have a problem jacking rounds, quit jacking rounds...

 

Have a problem with out of battery, put the lever safety back in... (yea I know some rifles don't have them).

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FWIW:

Some of the comments on this (and the linked discussion thread) are in response to questions regarding firearm handling procedures that are affected by installation of the device.

Others (e.g. de-cocking mid-stage issues) are replies to "WtC?" inquiries and the application of rules that apply with no exceptions related to the modification. 

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52 minutes ago, Blast Masterson said:

Was this available in 1873/1866 guns?

 

This weekend I couldn't see my front sights because of target and background colors. But I can't use a contrasting color on my front sight other than black, white silver, gold (which does not always contrast target colors). Because it creates an unfair advantage to those that forgot their nail polish?

 

Not only does this thing create a disadvantage to other shooters, it is a potential safety concern when you may have to drop a hammer over a live round to get it out at some point in time. ie. You shoot 9 of ten rounds and re-stage your rifle and the lever closes in the process. Instead of operating just the lever, subsequently jacking the live round, you have to pull the trigger and/or drop the hammer to operate the lever.

 

If you have a problem jacking rounds, quit jacking rounds...

 

Have a problem with out of battery, put the lever safety back in... (yea I know some rifles don't have them).

No, it wasn't.  Neither were short strokes.  I don't believe that a perceived disadvantage is justification for not allowing these.  BUT I am concerned about how they impact our current rules and I can foresee them causing slow downs on stages.

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10 hours ago, Jackrabbit Joe #414 said:

My opinion only: If you want one & like it and you love it fine.

 

As far as saying negative about it just don't buy it and you won't need to say any thing bad about it

 

Have a great day pilgrim's.

 

8 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

So when the OP asks for reviews only those who have something good to say should respond?

 

......when I asked for reviews I was hoping to get a mix of good and bad.

 

If I only wanted one sided views I'd tune into a political debate. 

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11 minutes ago, Fence Cutter said:

 

 

......when I asked for reviews I was hoping to get a mix of good and bad.

 

If I only wanted one sided views I'd tune into a political debate. 

Look I quoted that as a good mark not a debate. Sorry if you took it wrong.  

 

Jackrabbit #414

 

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9 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

As far as saying negative about it just don't buy it and you won't need to say any thing bad about it

 

I took this as " if people can't say something nice about it, then they shouldn't say anything" ......

 

Guess I took that wrong ????

 

 

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18 minutes ago, Fence Cutter said:

 

I took this as " if people can't say something nice about it, then they shouldn't say anything" ......

 

Guess I took that wrong ????

 

 

That’s a strange quote, Joe said that, not me.

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Ha!

To many quotes within quotes...

 

I just wanted to hear about the product,  .......never have seen it.

 

 

Edited by Fence Cutter

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Ha..... that's what started this......

 

Did you not read the this from the start?

 

The website told me the views of the inventor / manufacturer....... now I want to hear from the actual users.......

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9 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

Was this available in 1873/1866 guns?

Don't think this matters as it is inside the rifle.

9 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

 

Not only does this thing create a disadvantage to other shooters

I don't understand this. We don't all use the same firearms or shoot the same category. Some advantage and disadvantage will inherently be present by default.

9 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

 

If you have a problem jacking rounds, quit jacking rounds...

And if you're too slow speed up, if you have too many misses, don't miss.

9 hours ago, Blast Masterson said:

 

Have a problem with out of battery, put the lever safety back in... (yea I know some rifles don't have them).

I have problems with out of batteries. I have a lever safety. That is not always the problem. 

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    I spoke with Badger today. Seemed to me like a knowledgeable fellow, and nice to boot. He answered my questions and was honest about his products' benefit and slight shortcomings. 

   I ordered one. I usually jack out 2 or 3 rounds per match. You'd think with that much practice, I'd be fairly quick with a reload. NOT the case! I figure if all goes great reloading 2 rounds it will cost me about 4 seconds. When I mess up a reload, I really mess it up and would sometimes be better off with a miss. So, if it will save me 4 to 10 seconds or more in a match it's money well spent.

    The question will be, can I run my rifle at speed with it installed? I tend to get an out of battery about every other match. I do have a lever safety installed. My OOB is coming from my timing being off and opening the lever before cartridge ignition. The dilemma is this. If I am applying opening force on the lever, will that cause the lock to absorb hammer strike? This is what I intend to find out.

Sorry Fence Cutter for the long winded reply. I know it's not an actual review of the product. Just letting you know my thoughts on ordering the lock. I'll try to follow up and post how it turns out.

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28 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

A hardware solution to a software problem. 

In all fairness - a lot of "solutions" are.

 

Most challenges could be readily handled by someone with enough skill, talent and practice.

 

But...

In most cases; the driver is benefited by adding anti lock brakes or traction control to their car.

 

In most cases; the accountant is benefited by the presence of a calculator or Excel sheet.

 

In most cases; the carpenter is benefited by power tools and pneumatic hammer.

 

I'm sure at some point - the designers at Winchester were debating the need for a lever safety while updating the 1866 design. 

After all; if the shooter would just do his job - there's no need for one. 

Stinking hardware solutions. :D

 

But ultimately if the software benefits from the hardware - where's the harm?

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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41 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

In all fairness - a lot of "solutions" are.

 

Most challenges could be readily handled by someone with enough skill, talent and practice.

 

But...

In most cases; the driver is benefited by adding anti lock brakes or traction control to their car.

 

In most cases; the accountant is benefited by the presence of a calculator or Excel sheet.

 

In most cases; the carpenter is benefited by power tools and pneumatic hammer.

 

I'm sure at some point - the designers at Winchester were debating the need for a lever safety while updating the 1866 design. 

After all; if the shooter would just do his job - there's no need for one. 

Stinking hardware solutions. :D

 

But ultimately if the software benefits from the hardware - where's the harm?

 

.... I still can’t believe the ROC approved it. 

Edited by Smokestack SASS#87384

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23 minutes ago, Smokestack SASS#87384 said:

.... I still can’t believe the ROC approved it. 

If it is an internal mod only; did they have to approve it?

 

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2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

If it is an internal mod only; did they have to approve it?

 

SHB p.32:

"Internal modifications not referenced here that cannot be seen while the firearm is at rest (action closed) are allowed provided they do not affect the external operation or directly conflict with one of the modifications listed here."

and

"Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict."

 

To me it looks like it does affect the external operation of the firearm and it's not according the original design (but that's my opinion about short strokes, too :ph34r: )

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