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Rye Miles #13621

97 shooters

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I picked up a nice Winchester 97, I haven't shot one in a match for a long time. How do ya'll load? Over the top? From the right side? I've been  practicing grabbing two with my left hand and loading over the top, keep the other in my hand while I rack and shoot and eject, then load the other one. I've seen shooters grab 3 or even 4 at a time. I've also seen one at a time done pretty quick.

 

How do ya'll do it?

Rye

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Posted (edited)

Being a left handed shooter, I do it this way...

 

Hold shotgun to left shoulder with left hand positioned on the trigger.

Use right hand to pull back slide.

Grab a handful of shells from my pouch with right hand

Toss one into open port with right hand

Close action woth right hand

Shoot

Repeat, drawing more shells from pouch as needed.

 

Way I'd LIKE to do it.

 

With action closed on an empty chamer, load 5 rounds into magazine.   

Pump the action and shoot.

Edited by H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619
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7 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Damn, that’s fast!!!

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I'm right handed.  I grab two in my right hand, load from the right side pull the trigger with my middle finger.  I've practiced grabbing three,  I can do it, but half the time I drop a round and end up with only two any ways.  I have some physical problems with my right hand.  If I didn't have that problem, I would probably work more with trying to grab three.

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Posted (edited)
48 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Damn, that’s fast!!!

 

It's fast because there is no trigger disconnector on a Win 97. The shooter is holding back the trigger while chambering the round and repeating the process. The shooter has practiced this for along time insofar as the loading of the shells into the receiver and it is all about timing the slide action and the shell loading hand. Can't do that with a Model 12 because it has a disconnector (which should qualify as a Wild Bunch shotgun as it was produced as the Model 1912 when first introduced) and one has to push forward slightly on the fore end to unlock the bolt, which happens "automatically" upon firing the gun due to the gun recoiling if one is holding the fore end firmly.

 

I am not a CAS shooter but I used to have a 97 and a 12. The 97 had a 18" barrel and was set up like a WWI trench gun. The 12 was a field grade 16 gauge used for pheasants. Long time ago.

 

Jim 

Edited by sourdoughjim

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Grab four from my bandoleer with my left hand and load over the top, working the forearm with my left hand also. I tried learning to load with my right hand but seemed to fumble a lot, very rarely fumble the way I’m doing it now. If the SG is staged port up and it’s the second or third gun I load one with my right hand as I’m picking it up and then load the others over the top.

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Right handed.  4 over the top with the left hand.  Working on split shotgun targets (2 x 2) where there is movement between the two sets.   

 

Look at videos of Widder and Santa Fe River Stan.  Different ways and both very fast.

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Damn, that’s fast!!!

Well-he's a BORG......:lol:

OLG

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Posted (edited)

RYE,

whatever works best FOR YOU will be your most proficient way.

I had trouble learning the Over The Top tech so I practiced the 'grab 2,  right hand load' technique which

was more natural for me.

 

There are a multitude of great techniques like:

1.  grab 3 with left and 1 with right.  Santa Fe River Stan is a pro with this technique.

2.  grab 2, 3 or 4 with left and go over the top.

3.  grab 2 with left and 2 with right.  This works well with some shooters.

4.  grab 1 at a time.   YES, this can be real fast.   Actually, this technique can be fast enough

to shoot 6 shots in around 5 seconds.   You just have to get back down to your belt and get

those subsequent shells in the port to fire.

5. AND... from my favorite lefty, RED KNEE, he shoulders the 97 on his left shoulder 

and grabs 4 with the right hand and loads directly into the port with right hand.

Starting with SG in hand and NOT touching shells, I have seen Red Knee run 4 shots

in around 2.5 seconds.   Sometimes, when there's a bad tornado in Oklahoma, it usually

has something to do with his practice..... :D

 

One of the key aspects of shooting the 97 fast is not only the actual shooting technique, but the

speed which you can go back to your belt and fire off that round.

 

Fast splits with a 97 can be as fast as .37, although averaging around .42 is still considered really fast.

Firing a round and going back to your belt to fire the next round can be as fast as .9 of a second.

But mostly, 1.10 seconds will be considered eye blinking speed.

 

If you decide to Slam Fire,  point LOW on the target.   Slam Firing has a tendency to make us

push the muzzle upwards while firing...... causing more misses on the KD's.

 

This video ain't my best run..... but its my best on video.

 

Widder

 

 

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054
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2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

RYE,

whatever works best FOR YOU will be your most proficient way.

I had trouble learning the Over The Top tech so I practiced the 'grab 2,  right hand load' technique which

was more natural for me.

 

There are a multitude of great techniques like:

1.  grab 3 with left and 1 with right.  Santa Fe River Stan is a pro with this technique.

2.  grab 2, 3 or 4 with left and go over the top.

3.  grab 2 with left and 2 with right.  This works well with some shooters.

4.  grab 1 at a time.   YES, this can be real fast.   Actually, this technique can be fast enough

to shoot 6 shots in around 5 seconds.   You just have to get back down to your belt and get

those subsequent shells in the port to fire.

 

One of the key aspects of shooting the 97 fast is not only the actual shooting technique, but the

speed which you can go back to your belt and fire off that round.

 

Fast splits with a 97 can be as fast as .37, although averaging around .42 is still considered really fast.

Firing a round and going back to your belt to fire the next round can be as fast as .9 of a second.

But mostly, 1.10 seconds will be considered eye blinking speed.

 

If you decide to Slam Fire,  point LOW on the target.   Slam Firing has a tendency to make us

push the muzzle upwards while firing...... causing more misses on the KD's.

 

This video ain't my best run..... but its my best on video.

 

Widder

 

 

 

Some darn good information there. I see he didn't mention the P word......and I'm purt sure he does.

 

Sun (slow ass single loader)

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1 hour ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

RYE,

whatever works best FOR YOU will be your most proficient way.

I had trouble learning the Over The Top tech so I practiced the 'grab 2,  right hand load' technique which

was more natural for me.

 

There are a multitude of great techniques like:

1.  grab 3 with left and 1 with right.  Santa Fe River Stan is a pro with this technique.

2.  grab 2, 3 or 4 with left and go over the top.

3.  grab 2 with left and 2 with right.  This works well with some shooters.

4.  grab 1 at a time.   YES, this can be real fast.   Actually, this technique can be fast enough

to shoot 6 shots in around 5 seconds.   You just have to get back down to your belt and get

those subsequent shells in the port to fire.

5. AND... from my favorite lefty, RED KNEE, he shoulders the 97 on his left shoulder 

and grabs 4 with the right hand and loads directly into the port with right hand.

Starting with SG in hand and NOT touching shells, I have seen Red Knee run 4 shots

in around 2.5 seconds.   Sometimes, when there's a bad tornado in Oklahoma, it usually

has something to do with his practice..... :D

 

One of the key aspects of shooting the 97 fast is not only the actual shooting technique, but the

speed which you can go back to your belt and fire off that round.

 

Fast splits with a 97 can be as fast as .37, although averaging around .42 is still considered really fast.

Firing a round and going back to your belt to fire the next round can be as fast as .9 of a second.

But mostly, 1.10 seconds will be considered eye blinking speed.

 

If you decide to Slam Fire,  point LOW on the target.   Slam Firing has a tendency to make us

push the muzzle upwards while firing...... causing more misses on the KD's.

 

This video ain't my best run..... but its my best on video.

 

Widder

 

 

I started practicing a little (dry fire) loading like you do, it is faster for me than over the top with my left hand but not as comfortable. I guess practice makes perfect, or at least pretty good!! Thanks for the great info!

Rye ;)

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46 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I started practicing a little (dry fire) loading like you do, it is faster for me than over the top with my left hand but not as comfortable. I guess practice makes perfect, or at least pretty good!! Thanks for the great info!

Rye ;)

As with anything practice makes perfect. If I practiced more loading with my right hand I might become more proficient at it. I do enjoy shooting the 1897 I’ve got 13 16 gauge 1897’s and enjoy using them. I’ve got four 16 gauge SxS but I really like 1897’s.

 

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If you’ve never shot a 97 before, then I’d try Widder’s method.  I learned by watching Spencer Hogland’s over the top videos.  But you have to learn to pull four.  I learned to stagger the heads of my SG shells so every other one is just a tad higher than the one next to it.  If I give up Frontiersman, which won’t be in the near future, I may try to learn Widder’s method. Mostly cause I’m partial to Navy vets,

 

BEAT ARMY!

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I am proud to say Widder is a mentor and friend of mine and has taught me so much about the 97 and so many other things about the game.  The 97 is a very interesting firearm with many variations of loading and firing.  Much more so than the farm or granny gun.....ie the double...lol

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4 hours ago, sourdoughjim said:

 

It's fast because there is no trigger disconnector on a Win 97. The shooter is holding back the trigger while chambering the round and repeating the process.

 

I am not a CAS shooter but I used to have a 97 and a 12. 

   Pard, I don't think that's why he's fast. Back in Oct. '17 I watched Widder, Red Knee, and Missouri Traveler get challenged by 3 Wild Bunch shooters for 21 knockdowns. Wild bunch had their shotguns already stoked up and I'm sure they all slam fired. The 3 cowboys started empty...and won.

    I was with him when he hit 6 knockdowns in 3.85. If you notice he loads right handed, and has to get back on the trigger after he loads.

   He better watch out though, cause I hear Red Knee has been causing tornados in Oklahoma practicing up for this years' Tennessee State match. Whoowee, it's gonna be a good un!

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You can see me shooting my 97 here.   It was the last stage of the day and I was tired.   After seeing this video, I started pulling a handful of shells from the pouch instead of just one at a time.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPjlyvFPM74&list=PLEGp6U6G1rQgqvJMTnr8VeSGpAcGEO1p4&index=6&t=0s

 

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I'll work with you Rye,,, I can shoot them loading left right, even left handed!

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One thing I think works in my favor is the 16 gauge which I use exclusively is a little more forgiving on grabbing four shells at a time, not quite the handful that four 12 gauge are.

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8 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

One thing I think works in my favor is the 16 gauge which I use exclusively is a little more forgiving on grabbing four shells at a time, not quite the handful that four 12 gauge are.

I have trouble enough with two in my hand let alone 3 or 4!!

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I shoot my 97 left handed (everything else too) so I single load with  my right hand. Arthritis in my right thumb joint prevents me from grabbing two at a time - more chance of fumbling the reload. I know many who grab four shells but I also see more fumbling that way.  Single grab n load has worked fine for the last two years; I don't even think about it any more - it just happens.  :D

:FlagAm:

JC

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A couple of really fast pull four load over the top shooters out here are Long Swede and Single Barrel. Single Barrel has great big hands and fingers but he pulls and loads four with ease, Long Swede has long skinny fingers and does the same. They both roll the shotgun to the left to aid in loading each shell.

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RYE,

there is one other technique which I have NEVER seen anyone do.

 

I tried to do it but honestly, I couldn't.   Someone with good fingers and strong fingers might

be able to do it with great efficiency.

And more than likely, you will be limited to 2 or 3 shells.

 

I wish I had pixs to show but I'll try to describe as best I can.

 

With shell(s) in your left hand, you will operate the slide with the left hand also and use your

right hand for the trigger and support.

 

Move your LEFT hand back to the port and drop your shell in (just like the Over The Top technique).

BUT, instead of rotating your hand with palm facing upwards to operate the slide, you will

simply move your hand outwards OVER the barrel and allow your finger(s) and thumb to push

the slide outward and back.

Your loading hand will never have to rotate but rather keep its same position while loading AND

pumping.

 

I've tried the technique and can't do it for various reasons mentioned.

BUT, somebody out there will probably have the dexterity and strength to do it

and become even faster than some of the Over The Top speedsters.

 

If you are just now learning to use the 97, give it a try.  It might work great for you.

Good luck.

Just remember where to heard about it!

;)

 

..........Widder

 

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Widder, I’ll try that, I’m more comfortable grabbing two with my left hand and loading over the top. I used to shoot a 97 long ago but when I went 100% black I went to doubles. Now that I’m back to the heathen stuff I’m gonna give the ol’ 97 a whirl again. I’ve always liked the 97!

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On 6/28/2019 at 6:41 PM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

RYE,

whatever works best FOR YOU will be your most proficient way.

I had trouble learning the Over The Top tech so I practiced the 'grab 2,  right hand load' technique which

was more natural for me.

 

There are a multitude of great techniques like:

1.  grab 3 with left and 1 with right.  Santa Fe River Stan is a pro with this technique.

2.  grab 2, 3 or 4 with left and go over the top.

3.  grab 2 with left and 2 with right.  This works well with some shooters.

4.  grab 1 at a time.   YES, this can be real fast.   Actually, this technique can be fast enough

to shoot 6 shots in around 5 seconds.   You just have to get back down to your belt and get

those subsequent shells in the port to fire.

5. AND... from my favorite lefty, RED KNEE, he shoulders the 97 on his left shoulder 

and grabs 4 with the right hand and loads directly into the port with right hand.

Starting with SG in hand and NOT touching shells, I have seen Red Knee run 4 shots

in around 2.5 seconds.   Sometimes, when there's a bad tornado in Oklahoma, it usually

has something to do with his practice..... :D

 

One of the key aspects of shooting the 97 fast is not only the actual shooting technique, but the

speed which you can go back to your belt and fire off that round.

 

Fast splits with a 97 can be as fast as .37, although averaging around .42 is still considered really fast.

Firing a round and going back to your belt to fire the next round can be as fast as .9 of a second.

But mostly, 1.10 seconds will be considered eye blinking speed.

 

If you decide to Slam Fire,  point LOW on the target.   Slam Firing has a tendency to make us

push the muzzle upwards while firing...... causing more misses on the KD's.

 

This video ain't my best run..... but its my best on video.

 

Widder

 

 

 

If I could not pull 4 I would do the two from right like Widder, the split can be so much quicker than over the top especially if your only pulling two 

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I got some work to do! I think I'll stick with my double until I get a technique that I like!

 

Thanks for all the tips!!!

 

Rye

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