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Cutthroat Cody

default position

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19 minutes ago, mean gun mark said:

Yep I’m a big fan of writing stages “At the ready” lots of stages start with gun in hand,  or muzzle touching rail,shelf,whatever.

That's funny, I'm just the opposite.

 

I like writing stages that all start in a different starting position. Otherwise I think the whole start to a stage gets old and stale.

 

Phantom

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3 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I'd be happy if we went back to when we didn't have a default position.

 

If no starting position, stand anyway you want... Not touching gun (s) or ammo.

 

Done

Pretty simple and easy for everyone to do.

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Posted (edited)

I did SASS default once......because I forgot to put a starting position in the stage...….copy & paste got me..... I'm a big fan of telling folks exactly how to start and mixing it up because that takes all the lawyering out of the stage. Well, at least the starting of the stage. 

Edited by Cowboy Junky
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13 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

That's funny, I'm just the opposite.

 

I like writing stages that all start in a different starting position. Otherwise I think the whole start to a stage gets old and stale.

 

Phantom

 

To me, this style of stage design is a 'Stealth' fun factor.   Here's what I mean:

 

At Guns Of August a few years back, I complimented Lassiter on his 12 stages of fun and interesting stages.

There were no 'P' traps nor difficult movements.   All the targets were VERY hittable  (I've even shot Clean

for those 12 stages).   But when I ask Lassiter what one of his methods were that helped make it so fun,  he

told me that ALL of the stages were written with a different starting position in relation to firearm.

In other words,  one stage might require SG in hand.  Another stage might require starting with SG on a table...etc..

and the same with pistols and rifle.   And Lassiter also allowed a couple stages to start with 'shooters choice' for

a particular shooting scenario.

 

Now, I've been to some matches where the shooter started 6-10 ft back of their first firearm and shooting position.

This works out great if the SG or pistol(s) is the first firearm BUT..... whats the purpose of starting with your

hands on your hat or door frame when you're having to move 6 ft. before your first shot?

 

..........Widder

        

 

 

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Rule book is now the size of a novel in a foreign language.  What ever happened to keep it simple and have fun.?:( :FlagAm:

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6 hours ago, Texas jack Black SASS#9362 said:

Rule book is now the size of a novel in a foreign language.  What ever happened to keep it simple and have fun.?:( :FlagAm:

 

My memory's rusty on the exact date, but the KISS (Keep It Simple ...add term starting with "S" here) formula was kinda thrown out years ago when the Covenants were handed down from up on high.  Now we're up to version 23.2...I haven't been through that many versions of cell phone or OS for the computer!

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SASS default is punishment for lazy stage writing. 

 

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I thought our goal was to have fun and attract new shooters. 

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Just now, MBFields said:

I thought our goal was to have fun and attract new shooters. 

 

{sarcasm}

No, you have it all wrong; it's to shoot as fast as humanly possible and win cadillacs.

{/sarcasm}

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36 minutes ago, MBFields said:

I thought our goal was to have fun and attract new shooters. 

 

34 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

{sarcasm}

No, you have it all wrong; it's to shoot as fast as humanly possible and win cadillacs.

{/sarcasm}

How about to have as much fun as possible while shooting as fast as humanly possible, without the possibility of winning Cadillacs (they're not your grandparent's cars anymore).

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43 minutes ago, MBFields said:

I thought our goal was to have fun and attract new shooters. 

Every game has rules MB. It's never been easier than right now for a shooter to start. The availability of info, gear, support etc. is at an all time high. That being said I don't see watering down  the rules anymore than what we have in the name of attracting new shooters, and I don't think that's what you mean. If the membership and TG's see the SASS default starting position as an issue which is sure can be mostly in enforcement then maybe it is time to look at it again. I don't use it in my stages. My belief is the intent is for it to be used when nothing else is provided to bring some continuity to the game and in theory it should. 

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I should have been more clear. Making more rules or watering them down is what I am not in favor of.  I think the way it is now works just fine and agree with you 100%. My post was more aimed at someone calling the op for having his wrist touching his gun. Sorry for not clarifying.

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I wish the default was 'however you want, hands not touching guns or ammo.'  

 

Very commendable.  And would probably work well.

 

..........Widder

 

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There are a lot of complaints about SASS default but if you think back to the old westerns, Matt Dillon, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, etc., all would start standing straight up, hands to the side looking at the other gunfighter. 

 

Never once do I remember watching a gunfight where they started with hands on hat or hovering over long guns like a coiled rattlesnake.  

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1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

There are a lot of complaints about SASS default but if you think back to the old westerns, Matt Dillon, Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, etc., all would start standing straight up, hands to the side looking at the other gunfighter. 

 

Never once do I remember watching a gunfight where they started with hands on hat or hovering over long guns like a coiled rattlesnake.  

In the movie Tombstone during the fight at the OK Corral they started with guns either in hand (Doc with his SG) or hands on guns, they were crouched too.  When Johnny Ringo and Doc shoot it out Doc is tapping his revolver with his fingers and they're turned sideways to each other. In the movie TGTBATU I remember Lee Van Cleef's hand creeping across his belly towards that cross draw, moving back, then creeping again.  Clint's hand was pretty much where mine is before the buzzer, resting on his holster. 

 

I think we can find all types of starting positions for gunfights if we look.  Heck JW shot Liberty Valance from ambush, so I expect he started that one gun in hand.

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I'm the hard@ss TO here.  No "P" given - shooter was reminded that he could not be touching his guns before I would start him.

 

We talked about it the next day and cleared the air.   His original interpretation was that at default he could not be gripping his guns, but I said the rule was touching the guns.

 

No real issue, other than taking the shooter out of his "zone" before I would start him.

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I don't even know if my arms touch my guns when I'm at default.  If they do, I've never noticed it. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

In the movie Tombstone during the fight at the OK Corral they started with guns either in hand (Doc with his SG) or hands on guns, they were crouched too.  When Johnny Ringo and Doc shoot it out Doc is tapping his revolver with his fingers and they're turned sideways to each other. In the movie TGTBATU I remember Lee Van Cleef's hand creeping across his belly towards that cross draw, moving back, then creeping again.  Clint's hand was pretty much where mine is before the buzzer, resting on his holster. 

 

I think we can find all types of starting positions for gunfights if we look.  Heck JW shot Liberty Valance from ambush, so I expect he started that one gun in hand.

I'm actually good with any of these starting positions because they are pretty realistic.  I'm just saying default is fine on occasion too.  That's how Matt does it at the beginning of every show.:P

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As Deuce said; the default only exists because of lazy stage writing.

 

The default position, (unless specified otherwise), should be "Shooter in body posture of choice - hands not touching guns or ammo".

 

In other words: let each shooter determine the position that best advantages or satisfies their fantasy.

As long as every shooter has the same options - it is fair for all and removes ALL subjectivity and debate from the starting position.

 

Eliminating the possibility of requiring a shooter to adopt the SULAI position (standing upright like an idiot) would be a good choice.

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6 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

Eliminating the possibility of requiring a shooter to adopt the SULAI position (standing upright like an idiot) would be a good choice.

So Matt Dillon is an idiot?  We'll have to disagree on this one.

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Matt Dillon isn’t a real person and no real sheriff would have done things the way he did in Gunsmoke. I love that show and the character, but yes I would call a real life sheriff that did some of the things he did an idiot.

 

Creeker said it best, body posture of choice, hands not touching guns or ammo.

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1 hour ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

As Deuce said; the default only exists because of lazy stage writing.

 

The default position, (unless specified otherwise), should be "Shooter in body posture of choice - hands not touching guns or ammo".

 

In other words: let each shooter determine the position that best advantages or satisfies their fantasy.

As long as every shooter has the same options - it is fair for all and removes ALL subjectivity and debate from the starting position.

 

Eliminating the possibility of requiring a shooter to adopt the SULAI position (standing upright like an idiot) would be a good choice.

 

Indeed!

 

..........Widder

 

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4 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Matt Dillon isn’t a real person and no real sheriff would have done things the way he did in Gunsmoke. I love that show and the character, but yes I would call a real life sheriff that did some of the things he did an idiot.

Ever watch a real traffic stop?   No crouch, no looking at your equipment, hands hanging loosely near your sidearm, eyes forward on driver/vehicle.

 

As a retired LEO, I'll politely disagree with you.

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SASS Default-Any position as long as hands are not touching firearm.  It is your choice.  Nothing wrong with taking any position you like.  Stand up if you like with your eyes forward.  This is what I love about SASS.  Make it your own.  Personally I like to get as close to my firearms as possible.  The outcomes will be the same just more fun for me to   be in a ready position.  I would like to see the change.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Ever watch a real traffic stop?   No crouch, no looking at your equipment, hands hanging loosely near your sidearm, eyes forward on driver/vehicle.

 

As a retired LEO, I'll politely disagree with you.

Good to know.  

 

I had no idea that it was SOP for LEO’s to approach armed men, who they know plan to shoot at them, with their hands hanging loosely near their sidearms.  I think if I was a LEO approaching an aggressive armed man, like Matt did at the beginning of the show, I would like to have my weapon drawn.

 

I always thought if you found yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck.

 

I never knew LEO’s like to make it a fair fight. No wonder they get shot way to often. 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt

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7 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Ever watch a real traffic stop?   No crouch, no looking at your equipment, hands hanging loosely near your sidearm, eyes forward on driver/vehicle.

 

As a retired LEO, I'll politely disagree with you.

A traffic stop is a far cry from facing down an armed person intent on harming you.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

A traffic stop is a far cry from facing down an armed person intent on harming you.

No doubt.   If I had been Matt I would have sent Festus to flank him and get him in his rifle sites.  If he doesn't surrender, shoot him.  No way I'm sauntering out into the street for a little quick draw.

 

 

Edited by Captain Bill Burt
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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Good to know.  

 

I had no idea that it was SOP for LEO’s to approach armed men, who they know plan to shoot at them, with their hands hanging loosely near their sidearms.  I think if I was a LEO approaching an aggressive armed man, like Matt did at the beginning of the show, I would like to have my weapon drawn.

 

I always thought if you found yourself in a fair fight your tactics suck.

 

I never knew LEO’s like to make it a fair fight. No wonder they get shot way to often. 

 

I would agree with you on this one, its so aggravating to watch Matt Dillon  turn his back on somebody when bringing them back to Dodge such as when their camped and of course the bad guy gets the jump on him and the idea of a fair gunfight with a criminal, what if the criminal is faster ? your dead and theres a criminal on the loose, loved the show especially the Festus character but not very realistic

 

I agree the SASS DeFault start position is like cowboy portarms where some folks seem to cheat it a bit, best not to use it give the shooters different start positions, although I like the cowboy portarms position

Edited by Arcadia Outlaw SASS#71385
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On 3/11/2019 at 9:27 AM, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

To me, this style of stage design is a 'Stealth' fun factor.   Here's what I mean:

 

At Guns Of August a few years back, I complimented Lassiter on his 12 stages of fun and interesting stages.

There were no 'P' traps nor difficult movements.   All the targets were VERY hittable  (I've even shot Clean

for those 12 stages).   But when I ask Lassiter what one of his methods were that helped make it so fun,  he

told me that ALL of the stages were written with a different starting position in relation to firearm.

In other words,  one stage might require SG in hand.  Another stage might require starting with SG on a table...etc..

and the same with pistols and rifle.   And Lassiter also allowed a couple stages to start with 'shooters choice' for

a particular shooting scenario.

 

Now, I've been to some matches where the shooter started 6-10 ft back of their first firearm and shooting position.

This works out great if the SG or pistol(s) is the first firearm BUT..... whats the purpose of starting with your

hands on your hat or door frame when you're having to move 6 ft. before your first shot?

 

..........Widder

        

 

 

I always wrote stages that way

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8 minutes ago, Arcadia Outlaw SASS#71385 said:

I agree the SASS DeFault start position is like cowboy portarms where some folks seem to cheat it a bit, best not to use it give the shooters different start positions, although I like the cowboy portarms position

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! The SHB gives the position parameters, follow em! Don't like using Cowboy port arms at all because of the edge some want to take. I don't mind the position, just the pushing of the envelope.

Be creative writers, come up with other starting positions. We used props to start with on all of our stages last week and I had several tell me how much fun the stages were.

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36 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! The SHB gives the position parameters, follow em! Don't like using Cowboy port arms at all because of the edge some want to take. I don't mind the position, just the pushing of the envelope.

Be creative writers, come up with other starting positions. We used props to start with on all of our stages last week and I had several tell me how much fun the stages were.

They were definitely a lot of fun.

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11 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Musta been them close targets ;)

I warned you about that setup crew!  The bald one especially is crazy.

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