making Henry Big Boy SASS ready???

[dannyd]

Going to match is not much fun with a HBB but it's more because of the people than the rifle.    

[John E.B. Rawton]

4 minutes ago, dannyd said:

Going to match is not much fun with a HBB but it's more because of the people than the rifle.    

Yeah, I do remember a good number of people telling me what a poor choice I made and to get rid of it. 

I’ve since gotten an uberti and you know what .... I’ve gotten 8 misses due to a stove pipe turtle head jam second time out. Nothings ever perfect Yee Haw!

[dannyd]

1 minute ago, John E.B. Rawton said:

Yeah, I do remember a good number of people telling me what a poor choice I made and to get rid of it. 

I’ve since gotten an uberti and you know what .... I’ve gotten 8 misses due to a stove pipe turtle head jam second time out. Nothings ever perfect Yee Haw!

I got me one of those fancy 1873 from Long Hunter and it turned some more by Rough Neck Rod.   But I still shot the same, so I traded the 1873 but kept the HBB.  Shot a lot of clean matches with the HBB.

[Chief Rick]

2 hours ago, John E.B. Rawton said:

On the HBB one needs to roll the gun on it’s left side to lay in the cartridge. I’ve managed it. 

This shooter did not roll the rifle, just dropped the round into the open port.  The lever would not close without a lot of jiggling and help from fingers.

[Chief Rick]

2 hours ago, dannyd said:

I loaded on the clock just fine by way the loading gate

What loading gate?  The HBB doesn't have a loading gate?

[Hillbilly Drifter]

the loading is the biggest drawback to the HBB

[Ace_of_Hearts]

6 minutes ago, Hillbilly Drifter said:

the loading is the biggest drawback to the HBB

Don't ever shoot a 32 mag Marlin 94 then!

 

 

[dannyd]

1 hour ago, Chief Rick said:

What loading gate?  The HBB doesn't have a loading gate?

The side ejector port just open it and drop in a round Chief

[Michigan Slim]

4 hours ago, John E.B. Rawton said:

Meaning? ... I’m not too familiar with the ‘94.

They have a lever throw of a good golf swing.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, dannyd said:

The side ejector port just open it and drop in a round Chief

Ha! That's not a loading gate

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

A lot of people are all about speed .

Some are Not at all .

If you are in the Not at all category .

The HBB will work for you just fine .

All rifles have limitations .

The toggle link rifles were considered junk till someone come up with short stroke links .

The 92 was the go to rifle .

You can lighten up the hammer spring on the HBB ,

and load long and shoot it .

Rooster

[Dr. O. R. Vet]

Might as well put my 2 cents worth in....

 

Am in the process of buying a used but almost new HBB from my local gun store that I do a lot of business with.  Traded in a very problematic Rossi 92 in 38/357.  Had that Rossi to 3 different gunsmiths-they all tried to make it better-the gun just wouldn't cooperate.

I have a Rossi 92 in 45LC that runs as fast as I can-no problems.  Go figure.

 

I also shoot long range at Parker KS.  The HBB will be my long range - pistol caliber rifle.  Fitted with a Lyman front sight and a soule rear sight it should be fast enough for that range.  : )

 

Dr. O. R.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

8 minutes ago, Dr. O. R. Vet said:

Might as well put my 2 cents worth in....

 

Am in the process of buying a used but almost new HBB from my local gun store that I do a lot of business with.  Traded in a very problematic Rossi 92 in 38/357.  Had that Rossi to 3 different gunsmiths-they all tried to make it better-the gun just wouldn't cooperate.

I have a Rossi 92 in 45LC that runs as fast as I can-no problems.  Go figure.

 

I also shoot long range at Parker KS.  The HBB will be my long range - pistol caliber rifle.  Fitted with a Lyman front sight and a soule rear sight it should be fast enough for that range.  : )

 

Dr. O. R.

Just a suggestion.....

Use 357 brass in it. It makes it easier to to adjust the overall length to suit the gun.

 

[Dr. O. R. Vet]

My HBB is in 45LC.  I have been loading 250 grain rnfp bullets from MO Bullets in the Rossi in 45L and they work well.  Read in one of the comments that the truncated shape worked better in the 38/357 Rossi but don't know if that is true for the HBB in 45.  When I get it guess I'll have to get a little range time to find out.

[dannyd]

Never ran anything but 357 magnum in the HBB worked just fine.

[Griff]

On 9/19/2018 at 8:39 AM, Cypress Sam, SASS #10915 said:

Cheyenne Ranger is writing for his brother (read the original post) who already has a Uberti ‘66.  He is asking advice on replacement parts to make his brother’s HBB smoother and more reliable.  All rifles need their actions worked on to be competitive and more importantly, reliable.  

 

Have any of you shot a brand new Uberti ‘73 right out of the box?  Before short strokes came out in the late ‘90’s, they were regarded pretty much as a piece of crap.  Try a new un-gunsmithed one and you will see what I mean.

 

I’ve seen some of the HBB’s that seemed to work well and some that didn’t, just like all other models of rifles.  Smoothing up the parts and lapping them in place, along with lighter springs will most likely work wonders with the rifle.  If there are feeding issues, they must be addressed individually.

 

I would even predict that someone will come up with a way to shorten the stroke.  Looks like it would be a fertile market.

 

12 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

A lot of people are all about speed .

Some are Not at all .

If you are in the Not at all category .

The HBB will work for you just fine .

All rifles have limitations .

The toggle link rifles were considered junk till someone come up with short stroke links .

The 92 was the go to rifle .

You can lighten up the hammer spring on the HBB ,

and load long and shoot it .

Rooster

These are patently false statements.   What personal experience do you have to make such a statement?  Repeating what others may have claimed as fact is doing a severe disservice to a great firearm, and company, that frankly, has been the backbone of this game.   I've been shooting a '73 Uberti sporting rifle since 1987 in this game.  It has never been short-stroked, it has never jammed on me.  I have broken exactly ONE extractor and ONE mainspring in that 31 years.  Yes, when I first got it, I de-burred the insides,  but it ran factory springs until 3 years ago.  9 years ago I bought a new Uberti 1860,  it runs fine without any modifications... 4 years ago I bought another 1873... again, it runs fine without any modifications... a LITTLE,light de-burring of the internals made things a tad bit "smoother"... but were not necessary.   I ain't a fast shooter, have plenty of buckles and plaques for the wall of shame (a few fewer than my wife & son),  repeating fiction as fact is not conducive to any conversation.  And I seriously doubt that my experience with a toggle-link is anything but common.

 

You CAN say that they weren't nearly as competitive as the 1892s & 1894s made by Winchester (or Rossi) and Marlin, respectively; at least once those particular models were tuned and smoothed.   The big reason for that was that the 1873 (& 1866) have a lever throw about the same as a Winchester 94.  That's the long & short of it.   The folks I know that shot an 1866 or 1873 (or even the 1860 for that matter), did so because they were more interested in the "look" they presented than any sort of competitiveness.   If they were trying to be really competitive, they switched to a '92 or '94 (Marlin)... and kept their toggle-link for a back-up.  But, I can't ever recall any of those shooters ever said their toggle-link was junk.  

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Well said Griff!!!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

19 hours ago, Griff said:

 

These are patently false statements.   What personal experience do you have to make such a statement?  Repeating what others may have claimed as fact is doing a severe disservice to a great firearm, and company, that frankly, has been the backbone of this game.   I've been shooting a '73 Uberti sporting rifle since 1987 in this game.  It has never been short-stroked, it has never jammed on me.  I have broken exactly ONE extractor and ONE mainspring in that 31 years.  Yes, when I first got it, I de-burred the insides,  but it ran factory springs until 3 years ago.  9 years ago I bought a new Uberti 1860,  it runs fine without any modifications... 4 years ago I bought another 1873... again, it runs fine without any modifications... a LITTLE,light de-burring of the internals made things a tad bit "smoother"... but were not necessary.   I ain't a fast shooter, have plenty of buckles and plaques for the wall of shame (a few fewer than my wife & son),  repeating fiction as fact is not conducive to any conversation.  And I seriously doubt that my experience with a toggle-link is anything but common.

 

You CAN say that they weren't nearly as competitive as the 1892s & 1894s made by Winchester (or Rossi) and Marlin, respectively; at least once those particular models were tuned and smoothed.   The big reason for that was that the 1873 (& 1866) have a lever throw about the same as a Winchester 94.  That's the long & short of it.   The folks I know that shot an 1866 or 1873 (or even the 1860 for that matter), did so because they were more interested in the "look" they presented than any sort of competitiveness.   If they were trying to be really competitive, they switched to a '92 or '94 (Marlin)... and kept their toggle-link for a back-up.  But, I can't ever recall any of those shooters ever said their toggle-link was junk.  

 

Im Sorry Junk  Was a bad choise of words .

 

What I meant was into   the short stroke kits come in to play the toggle link rifles was NOT the fast go to rifle .

The fast go to rifles was the 92 and the marlin .

Now a lot of people say stay away from the 92 like it will barley get you threw a match .

We all know that is just BS !

 

But the New Shooter trying to start out dont know that .

So when people tell them they really need to buy a 73 or a 66 or they wont even have a working rifle .

They are thinking I cant afford to even git in to this game .

 

I shot a 92 for the first 7 years shooting the game with smokeless powder .

I switched to a 66 and black powder and love it  ( Because BP clean up on a 66 is a lot nice  then the 92  )

 

And you are right A LOT of people just repeat what others have said .

Because the HBB is NOT as bad as a lot of people say .

It will work , and it will shoot a clean match  .  ( I have done it with a brand new bone stock HBB rifle straight out of the box )

Its just the HBB is very length sensitive and NOT a rifle that you can run fast .

But if you are a 30 second or slower shooter per stage .

The HBB will work just fine .

  

PS. I shoot my 1866 and my 1860 at the  same speed as my 92 or my Marlin  or my HBB .

Some of us give a crap about speed !

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

6 hours ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

 

Im Sorry Junk  Was a bad choise of words .

 

What I meant was into   the short stroke kits come in to play the toggle link rifles was NOT the fast go to rifle .

The fast go to rifles was the 92 and the marlin .

Now a lot of people say stay away from the 92 like it will barley get you threw a match .

We all know that is just BS !

 

But the New Shooter trying to start out dont know that .

So when people tell them they really need to buy a 73 or a 66 or they wont even have a working rifle .

They are thinking I cant afford to even git in to this game .

 

I shot a 92 for the first 7 years shooting the game with smokeless powder .

I switched to a 66 and black powder and love it  ( Because BP clean up on a 66 is a lot nice  then the 92  )

 

And you are right A LOT of people just repeat what others have said .

Because the HBB is NOT as bad as a lot of people say .

It will work , and it will shoot a clean match  .  ( I have done it with a brand new bone stock HBB rifle straight out of the box )

Its just the HBB is very length sensitive and NOT a rifle that you can run fast .

But if you are a 30 second or slower shooter per stage .

The HBB will work just fine .

  

PS. I shoot my 1866 and my 1860 at the  same speed as my 92 or my Marlin  or my HBB .

Some of us give a crap about speed !

A big contributor to the 92 no longer being competitive is the fact that target positioning has decreased split times.

 

The 92 can't keep up...

 

Phantom

[Griff]

51 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

A big contributor to the 92 no longer being competitive is the fact that target positioning has decreased split times.

The 92 can't keep up...

Phantom

Eggslackerly!  The farther targets as set from both the shooter and from each other, the less lever speed means... 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

4 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

A big contributor to the 92 no longer being competitive is the fact that target positioning has decreased split times.

 

The 92 can't keep up...

 

Phantom

That only matters if you play the game for speed. 

If you dont play the game for speed a single shot will keep up .

Like I keep saying and you dont keep understanding. 

Not everyone cares about speed !

They shot to just play Cowboy and shoot there old guns .

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

1 hour ago, Rooster Ron Wayne said:

That only matters if you play the game for speed. 

If you dont play the game for speed a single shot will keep up .

Like I keep saying and you dont keep understanding. 

Not everyone cares about speed !

They shot to just play Cowboy and shoot there old guns .

What's funny is that you keep thinking that my comments are in response to your statement about not caring about speed... It's not.

 

If you want a competitive rifle for the current game of SASS...

 

Oy...

 

Phantom

[watab kid]

ill premise this with i do not have a henry big boy , its clear they are not considered a SASS competition rifle , i thought they were mostly rifle cartridge but ive never looked into them that closely , never really had a yearning for one , 

 

i do have a henry golden boy in 22 cal  , and a henry 1860 and the henry/winchester 1866 in 45 colt that i sometimes shoot at matches , like the OP i dont shoot for speed beyond my limited ability , i do get that my 1873 is by far the best that i shoot and the 1892 is a tight second , i do think all of the comments were intended to add to the conversation , ive learned a few things reading this thread , i appreciate it 

[Ace_of_Hearts]

18 minutes ago, watab kid said:

ill premise this with i do not have a henry big boy , its clear they are not considered a SASS competition rifle , i thought they were mostly rifle cartridge but ive never looked into them that closely , never really had a yearning for one , 

Henry Big Boys come chambered only in .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum & .327 Fed Mag

 

i do have a henry golden boy in 22 cal  , and a henry 1860 and the henry/winchester 1866 in 45 colt that i sometimes shoot at matches , like the OP i dont shoot for speed beyond my limited ability , i do get that my 1873 is by far the best that i shoot and the 1892 is a tight second , i do think all of the comments were intended to add to the conversation , ive learned a few things reading this thread , i appreciate it 

 

[Texas John Ringo, SASS #10138]

Only thing I have to say about Henry Big Boy rifles is I wish that every one but me used them.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I've grown fond of them during the 'Winter Months'  the past couple years...........

 

........... when the Wire starts to get boring.

 

 

 

..........Widder

 

[dannyd]

1 minute ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I've grown fond of them during the 'Winter Months'  the past couple years...........

 

........... when the Wire starts to get boring.

 

 

 

..........Widder

 

When you show at a match with one everyone knows who you are

 

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

7 hours ago, dannyd said:

When you show at a match with one everyone knows who you are

 

I have used a HBB just because I wanted to know for myself .

SO Yes I have experience Myself to speak off .

I shot a clean match with a stock HBB in 44 mag using 44 mag brass with APP.

I only used it to see for myself .

 

With a shooter shooting 30+ stages the HBB will work just fine .

As long as You Load long and run the rifle like you mean it , Full strokes every time .

So if the guy wants to use a HBB .

Leave the guy alone and let him run what he wants to run .

Thats all I have to say about it .

[watab kid]

i learned something new - always a plan for the day for me - it proves i spoke the truth as i do not have nor ever looked for one , now i see why the OP is asking 

 

thanks Ace of Hearts - "Henry Big Boys come chambered only in .44 Magnum, .45 Colt, .357 Magnum, .41 Magnum & .327 Fed Mag"

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

What makes for a good rifle?   Well, a lot of that depends on the shooter.   I've seen people run super fast with guns that are widely considered to be less than ideal for our game.   And yet, in the hands of an expert, it can be done.

 

Now, I am a back of the pack shooter, but I have noticed that some rifles are easier to run than others.   Some are faster than others.  Some are more fun.  Some are all three.

 

Unless otherwise noted, all of these rifles were purchased used.

 

I started this game with a pre-safety Rossi 92 in .44 Magnum.  I was running .44 Specials in it, and never had any real problems.

 

My next gun was a real Winchester 73 in .32-20.  I found that it was a bit faster, and smoother than the Rossi, and shooting a real 73 was just darn fun!  Once at a shoot, someone asked me, "Is that a real Winchester?"  I said it was, and when he asked if he could hold it and cycle the action because he'd never done so with a real one before, I handed it over to him.   He as so used to a slicked up, short stroked Uberti that he could not work the lever and thought there was something wrong with it!  I took it back and just levered it.  He tried again and said something like, "Wow, that's a stiff action."  I shrugged and  told him I had no problem with it.

 

Soon after that, I found an Armi San Marco 92 in .45 Colt.   This was the first brand new SASS type gun I purchased.  Since that was shaping up to be my go to caliber, I got the rifle.  First time I took it to a shoot was a train wreck.  The action was horrible clunky.   One fellow on my posse said it was "painful" watching trying to make this gun work.   It was so bad, I did something I'd never had done before on any gun, I had an action job.   I told the smith, "I don't want a race gun, I just want it to work.  Smooth, like a real Winchester."   He did as asked, and now it runs great.   It became my favorite go to rifle for a while.

 

The next thing I got was a Henry in .44-40.    As far as I know, it has never been touched by a gunsmith.   I found the novelty of shooting the grandfather of the Winchester line to be quite enjoyable.  The action was smooth and had no problems.  A little stiffer than my 73, but not noticeably so when running it at a shoot.

 

The next gun I got was paradigm shifting for me.  An AWA Lighting in .45 Colt.  It soon became my favorite rifle, and I even used it to shoot clean at EoT a few years ago.  Slick, smooth, faster than anything else for me, and just darn fun to shoot.   And when people look at me funny saying I'm in for a rough time, I just smile and nod my head.   Similar, I think, to the way some people look at the Big Boy.

 

Then I got a real GI surplus Spencer.  Fun is off the charts, but slower than molasses in January.  But if you are using one of these, who cares! 

 

After that I got another real Winchester 92 that someone rebarreled to .44 Magnum and put a John Wayne lever on.   That big lever slows you down a little, and it has a tendency to not like .44 Specials, but works just fine with (downloaded) Magnums.   I take this one out once in a while just for the huge fun factor.

 

My next gun was an early Uberti 66 by Navy Arms in .44-40.  It had had a butchers special action job.  The lever safety had been removed, and the hammer spring had been lightened so much that the hammer would fall visibly slower than on my Henry.  It was super smooth, but would often not go bang because the hammer was falling so slowly.  I took it to a gunsmith and said, "Can you restore this to more or less factory specs?"  He did so.   It now runs great.  It's very smooth, probably due to the original action job, but now it works.

 

Finally found another real Winchester 92 in a caliber I'd long wanted one in, 32-20.  I'm telling you, a real Winchester runs so much nicer than the reproductions do!

 

About this time, I pulled out the old Rossi, cuz I'd not used it for a while.   Having grown used to 92's that are great, I came to realize that this gun was kinda cluncky.  I had a simple action job done to it, and now it's very nice.  Speedier than it was, but I'm still better with the Lightning.

 

Which leads me to my last 2 SASS Main Match types.   Having had such good luck with my AWA Lighting in .45 Colt, I decided that if I ever found one in .44-40 that I'd buy one.   Not too long after that, I did.  The action was just as smooth as my .45, but it did have a problem, the chamber seemed to be too tight.  Rounds would not chamber.   Had a gunsmith look at it, and he told me he polished it with some lapping compound, and now it works just like I want it to.

 

And then something most unexpected happened, I found a real honest to goodness COLT Lighting in .32-20 for around $1700!   I've never seen one with a first digit that was not crooked, so I bought it.  It works great, and shooting a real Colt is just peachy.  This one has been "restored" with a new finish and some sort of an action job, which makes it real pretty, flawlessly functional, and affordable for me to buy.

 

 

So...  Bottom line, different guns do work in different ways.   To me, the most important thing is fun and functionality.   But I also think that most of my guns, in the hands of a real top shooter, could run quite fast as is.  Maybe not as fast as a customized race gun, but still in a respectable fashion.   Having a gun gone over by a gunsmith to tune it up will certainly help, but it is not always necessary.   Some work just fine as made.

 

Now, if you want your gun to function at its maximum possible speed, then some action work may be needed.   All I am saying is that it's not an absolute requirement for having a good time.

 

On a final note, as I mentioned many posts ago, I have run a Big Boy at a match as a loaner gun after I had a mishap with my own rifle.   I don't believe its owner had had any work done to it.   (Remember I am a S L O W shooter)  I will say that it worked just fine.  It did what it was supposed to do.   Did it make me want to obtain one, no.   But I did find it to be functional.

 

Good luck, and happy shooting.

 

 

 

[Carolina Drifter]

On 11/12/2018 at 5:36 PM, John E.B. Rawton said:

Yeah, I do remember a good number of people telling me what a poor choice I made and to get rid of it. 

I’ve since gotten an uberti and you know what .... I’ve gotten 8 misses due to a stove pipe turtle head jam second time out. Nothings ever perfect Yee Haw!

 

If any fellow cowfolk is talking down to someone because of their equipment choice that ain't being much of a cowboy.  Sure, there may be better choices that are better suited for speed and upgrades than others.  But shoot what you got and have fun.  You can always upgrade later or not its the shooters choice.  Especially if they are happy with the particular choice of firearm.  Some folks are just in it for the fun not the speed so a hot rod $1500 plus rifle dosent fit their needs and would potentially be a waste of funds vs a firearm can be had for a fraction of the cost.  

Different things meet different folks needs from cost to personal preference.  Should never judge a fellow pard based on it. 

 

CD

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

My Henry BBs in .45 Colt, .44 Rem Mag and .357 have worked well over the years. I have fired thousands  of rounds out of my .45, won my share of matches and categories and really enjoy it. Since I am a Grand Patron, speed is no longer an absolute requirement but it was in the past.

 

I exclusively shoot wart hog loads of holy black with nary a hiccup.

 

 

 

 

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

A Frankenstein post... Bring a thread back to life.

 

[John E.B. Rawton]

1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

“I have fired thousands  of rounds out of my .45, won my share of matches and categories and really enjoy it.”

 

“I exclusively shoot wart hog loads of holy black with nary a hiccup.”

 

 

 

 

I have a Henry BB .45 and was wondering if it would handle the black powder. When I was shooting TrailBoss it got dirty fast and I had my share of light primer strikes. 

I have just recently started using bp in my revolvers. Did you need to do anything special with the Henry to get it ready for bp? Any tips?

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I keep my guns scrupulously clean, use lots of Ballistol and a Windex with vinegar-solution. As I do with my revolvers and shotgun, as well as my C. Sharps .50-140, I clean them regularly during matches. Even though I generally use Scheutzen, I seem to avoid problems. I wear a white 1890s Marine uniform during the summer and am able to keep it fairly clean!  :-) My cuffs sure get black.