reloading Reloading Preferences for .38 Special

[The Outlaw Travis James]

I have some questions regarding reloading .38 special for CAS shoots.  

 

1. Is there a specific reloading guide for CAS reduced loads?  Or are they in the normal guides? i.e. Hornaday, Lyman, Ballistic Products, Meister, etc.                                                         Is there a better manufacturer to use for:
2. brass
3. primers
4. powder
5. bullets
6. What is the most economical press to start out with?

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

The Hodgdon data has some cowboy level load data (both online and in manual).

The Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook 4th edition has all-cast-bullet loads, and some go low enough to be good cowboy loads. 

But probably your favorite loads will come from a couple of your local shooters.  Ask around at the next match you go to, and you will find more loading data than you can ever try out.   There is no WELL_ROUNDED loading manual for cowboy loads!  A lot of data has been developed by careful experimentation.

 

A ton of folks use Starline brass because  they support our sport well, they make great brass, and they sell direct to shooter at reasonable prices from their web site.  Other brass will work well, .38 special loading is not terribly picky about the brass.  

 

Primers - folks with tuned guns use Federal small pistol primers most often.  Folks with untuned guns can use any primer.  Buy what's cheap.

 

Powder - about 50 different pistol and rifle powders work well.  You'll get 75 recommendations if you ask 25 cowboy shooters.  Ask around at your local matches - ask some of the better shooters, and copy them for starters!

 

Bullets - 125 grain Round Nose Flat Point cast bullets  or same slug but polymer coated is most common for .38 special and is a great place to start.

 

A single stage press will cost you the least and slow you down the most.  If you can stand the cheap engineering, the Lee single stage works for some folks.   Going for the most economical reloading tooling is a great way to convince yourself that you really don't want to reload.  Same as shooting a cheap gun is a great way to spend time having someone fix it.

 

GO TO MATCHES AND ASK GOOD SHOOTERS WHAT THEY DO!   What you wrote questions about in five minutes could require 5 volumes of answer.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Badlands Bob #61228]

17 minutes ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have some questions regarding reloading .38 special for CAS shoots.  

 

1. Is there a specific reloading guide for CAS reduced loads?  Or are they in the normal guides? i.e. Hornaday, Lyman, Ballistic Products, Meister, etc.    Is there a better manufacturer to use for:
2. brass
3. primers
4. powder
5. bullets
6. What is the most economical press to start out with?

Hodgdon prints a Cowboy cartridge reloading guide.  It's only for Hodgdon powders.  I use all sorts of pickup 38 spl. range brass.  Everything except Americ.  That junk stick in the press.    For primers, I like Federal small pistol primers but any of them will work in a pinch as long as your springs aren't too light.  I use Hodgdon Titegroup for all my pistol bullets.  It works well for anything from 9mm to 45 Colt.  It keeps things simple.  Titegroup is not position or temperature sensitive and a pound goes a long way.  I buy it in 8 lb jugs.  For 38 spl. bullets, I use 125 gr. truncated bullets from Outlaw Bullets.  Waimea lives in Florida and vends at most of the big matches around the Southeast.   If you preorder and pick them up at the match, they are $40 per thousand. 

 

As for the press, there are lots of opinions on that one.  I'm a fan of Dillon presses but they are the most expensive too.  In the reloading press area, you get what you pay for.  Probably the cheapest is going to be a single stage press made by Lee or RCBS.   They are painfully slow but good to learn on.  

 

Good luck on your search.

[J.D. Daily]

Save time by purchasing a turret press.

P.S.  I made the mistake of listening to someone who said buy a Dillon.  And after researching the SDB, XL550 & XL650 I decided to purchase the XL650.  I knew I would be reloading 223/556 in volume when my stock of range brass was >1000.  I also figured the XL650 wasn't that more expensive than the XL550.  After my 1st reloading session I bought the case feeder since, having to load the tube every 14 rounds is a PITA.  I also determined that fixing mistakes is also a PITA on a progressive press; so I have a single stage Lee breechlock press for QC fixes & low volume reloading.  If my 1st press was a turret type I may not have purchased the progressive.  I don't shoot enough & I have plenty of free time to justify the purchase of the XL650.  Don't get me wrong I love the XL650 & wouldn't sell it.  I reload, 380. 9X19, 38/357, 40S&W, 45Colt, 223/556, 300BO & 308/762 on it.  44M, 300 Savage & 30-06 are reloaded on the single stage.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

1 hour ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have some questions regarding reloading .38 special for CAS shoots.  

 

1. Is there a specific reloading guide for CAS reduced loads?  Or are they in the normal guides? i.e. Hornaday, Lyman, Ballistic Products, Meister, etc.                                                         Is there a better manufacturer to use for:
2. brass  Starline
3. primers Federal 
4. powder  Clays  (mid range load)
5. bullets  BY Scarlett in matches that count, whatever I have for practice and monthly matches
6. What is the most economical press to start out with? Skip economy and go straight to Dillon, save a lot of grief. 

Randy

[The Outlaw Travis James]

Ok what is the difference between the regular federal small pistol primers and the #100 match primers?

[357wheelgunner]

9 minutes ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

Ok what is the difference between the regular federal small pistol primers and the #100 match primers?

Price and quality control. For our game match primers are money spent that could be put to a better use.

 

Start with a single stage press. Learn the steps to reloading, you will always need a single stage regardless of whether you have a bigger faster press. Personally I like the lee classic press, cast iron, with Hornady lock-n-load bushing system. Makes for really fast die changes. I also like my Hornady lock-n-load AP automatic. Costs half what a Dillon does and runs just as fast! (I can hear the big Blue fans groaning) however, as with any auto anything, you had better know what you are doing or you will have a very steep very expensive  learning curve!

Best advice ever is to find someone to mentor you as you learn.

JMHO, YMMV

[The Outlaw Travis James]

I appreciate all of the advice but I cannot go all out for everything!  Somewhere is going to have to be economy and I do not want it to be in the guns.  So the Dillion presses are out for now.

[Captain Clark]

2 hours ago, 357wheelgunner said:

Price and quality control. For our game match primers are money spent that could be put to a better use.

I have a different perspective on the cost between top quality components over lesser components. After spending the time and Money to travel to a big annual, regional, state, national, or world match, why take a chance on bargain basement ammo components in your top end super duper guns? The cost of match primers is well worth the peace of mind that comes with them always going bang! 

My very good friend had squibs this year at EOT that took him out of any chance of placing in category,  A Major match, and minor glitch that you can't do over.

IMO match grade primers, 1st rate bullets,  and quality brass are the only logical choice if your going to try and compete with your peers in this game! 

 

A couple years ago In a top 16 shoot off I was paired up with a top competitor that I greatly respected. As the shoot off progressed I was burning through the extra ammo in my cart so I dipped into some  "practice" ammo for the next round which was a foolish decision in hindsight, when a primer blew out in the middle of the rifle run and locked up my rifle ending my show for the day! I had a nice 5 hour drive that evening to reflect on the real cost of  bargin ammo at that point. 

There are many machines that will produce top quality reloads when set up and used properly. 

Skill and quality control are valuable tools. Good luck !

 

 

[Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409]

My guns preference is for Federal primers large and small. I have learned the hard way at a State level match that my 66 will not reliably set off Winchester primers. That said I load only Federal primers for my wife's and my cowboy guns. The shotguns are not at all fussy. For my non cowboy guns  it makes no difference at all. For my guns a full case of Goex 2F wife's  38 spcl pistols and rifle Trailboss with a 105 gr bullet on top. I have been working on a 5lb jug of the TB so that's what gets loaded for smokeless ammo. For the most part Starline brass is used for the .38spcl and my 44-40. 

As for a press I did learn on a single state press and still have it and use it on rare occasions mostly for depriming before tumbling the brass. That said I use a Dillon square deal for small primer and a Dillon 450 for my large primer ammo. Yes the Dillons are pricey but being somewhat frugal I purchased both used for a good price. I did try to use a Lee pro 1000. There are those that will swear by them and once I finally got the bugs out of it the ammo was as good as what I loaded on the Dillon. But there was a learning curve and lack of patience on my part. I bought it from a friend that bought it to load .38 ammo and he lost patience with it. We both laugh about it now, hopefully the pard that bought it from me was more patient and still is using it.

 

Hochbauer

[Lawman Mays]

A lot of good advice above. M2c - I started reloading 2 years ago with an RCBS Rock Chucker single stage press and still use it to this day. It's a good one to get started on. I use Starline Brass, 125 grain, hi-tek bullets from Missouri Bullet Co. and either Unique or Tite Group powder. I learned using Lyman's 50 year anniversary reloading Manual and by experimenting with different loads at the target range.  I have settled on a powder load for each powder that I'm comfortable with and which will knock down most knockdown targets that clubs occasionally use. For CA shooting, it's best to use powder loads that are in the middle or toward the low end of the range that the manual recommends. You don't need a lot of power to ping a metal target around 7 yards away. Good luck and have fun.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

Get this press .No, get this press. Wait, get this press. WHOA!!! The first thing you need to do is decide how much reloading you are going to do. Then match your press to your needs. No need to get an expensive progressive press if you are not shooting several thousand rounds a year. We shoot about 3,000 rounds a year. I knew nothing about reloading and bought a used Lee 4 hole turret press. Very easy to set up and use. I was making rounds in no time at all.

 

I don't care what you get, you're the one that will be using it. I just want you to make an informed decision. 

[longcolt 14205L]

The short answer is:

american select 2.8 - 3.0 gr. 

Dillon sdb

buy used brass to start 

federal primers

chey cast bullets are about the most economical that I’ve found. Conical

these loads will work well in both pistol and rifle. Load to 1.450 oal. 

Good luck

longcolt

[The Outlaw Travis James]

8 hours ago, Captain Clark said:

I have a different perspective on the cost between top quality components over lesser components. After spending the time and Money to travel to a big annual, regional, state, national, or world match, why take a chance on bargain basement ammo components in your top end super duper guns? The cost of match primers is well worth the peace of mind that comes with them always going bang! 

My very good friend had squibs this year at EOT that took him out of any chance of placing in category,  A Major match, and minor glitch that you can't do over.

IMO match grade primers, 1st rate bullets,  and quality brass are the only logical choice if your going to try and compete with your peers in this game! 

 

A couple years ago In a top 16 shoot off I was paired up with a top competitor that I greatly respected. As the shoot off progressed I was burning through the extra ammo in my cart so I dipped into some  "practice" ammo for the next round which was a foolish decision in hindsight, when a primer blew out in the middle of the rifle run and locked up my rifle ending my show for the day! I had a nice 5 hour drive that evening to reflect on the real cost of  bargin ammo at that point. 

There are many machines that will produce top quality reloads when set up and used properly. 

Skill and quality control are valuable tools. Good luck !

 

 

All this may matter to an experienced and competitive shooter.  But I am a beginner and trying to be able to afford (which isn't going very well) getting started.  Yes we are talking about a couple bucks in primers but I need to save as much as I can until I get most everything I need.  I do not even have a rifle or shotgun yet.  But I appreciate the alternative view but it just ins't relevant to this thread due to my novice level skills.  

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

send you a PM

[Captain Clark]

46 minutes ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

All this may matter to an experienced and competitive shooter.  But I am a beginner and trying to be able to afford (which isn't going very well) getting started.  Yes we are talking about a couple bucks in primers but I need to save as much as I can until I get most everything I need.  I do not even have a rifle or shotgun yet.  But I appreciate the alternative view but it just ins't relevant to this thread due to my novice level skills.  

I guess I misread  your OP looking for input on reloading for CAS shoots.

Good luck with whatever advice you find that fits your criteria.

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

1 hour ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

All this may matter to an experienced and competitive shooter.  But I am a beginner and trying to be able to afford (which isn't going very well) getting started.  Yes we are talking about a couple bucks in primers but I need to save as much as I can until I get most everything I need.  I do not even have a rifle or shotgun yet.  But I appreciate the alternative view but it just ins't relevant to this thread due to my novice level skills.  

Send me your e-mail address and I'll send you a link to a source of very good priced, once-fired 38 Special brass ($75 for 2,300 with free shipping).  (The Wire won't let me send you a PM.)  BTW I don't bother with match grade primers.  I do shoot quality brass at major matches to keep my rifle from locking up from split cases.  A used, single-stage or turret press is the least expensive way to get started reloading (though I love my Dillons).  In reloading the cost of the powder charge is the least expensive, followed by the primer cost.  Bullets are the most expensive component so look for ways to obtain the least expensive, quality bullets you can find to keep costs down.  That often means either casting your own or buying at major matches to get free shipping.  Buy primers and powder locally if possible to avoid hazmat shipping charges.  (I buy primers in bulk lots so the Hazmat charges don't run up my cost.)

 

Welcome to the world or CAS.  Many dedicated CAS shooters get three hobbies when they join the sport - shooting, reloading and RVing.  You now have two of the three.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

If possible find a Mentor--someone willing to show you the 'ropes'

 

local CAS club is a good place to ask

 

a few sessions and you'll be good to go.

 

 

[Marauder SASS #13056]

I often hear folks recommend starting with a single-stage press, but my experience is that is normally a waste of money unless you get a used press for very cheap so you can sell it for what it cost you. For any significant quantity of rounds such as used for practice and competition, they are just too time consuming for most people

 

But it is excellent advice to start reloading by single loading each round.  You learn the basics very well that way.

 

You can readily single load using any press. 

 

The turret presses are a big step in efficiency compared to a single stage and they are actually easier to single load each round than on a single stage press.   You can take one round and take it through all of the loading steps to a fully loaded round.

 

(On a true single stage pres, you have to resize and deprime all brass, then prime all the brass, then switch dies bell the brass  then load the powder.  Then you get to switch dies again!  Isn't this fun?  Then load and crime all the rounds.)

 

It is also possible to single load using any full progressive press.  The progressives are, once again, a huge step up in efficiency.  Sometimes it is slightly more complicated to single load but it is very possible.

 

So you can safely and easily learn to load on any press.

 

And once you learn how to single load, it is very easy to step up the pace and have a nice press that you don't mine using for higher quantity of rounds.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

19 hours ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have some questions regarding reloading .38 special for CAS shoots.  

 

1. Is there a specific reloading guide for CAS reduced loads?  Or are they in the normal guides? i.e. Hornaday, Lyman, Ballistic Products, Meister, etc.                                                         Is there a better manufacturer to use for:
2. brass
3. primers
4. powder
5. bullets
6. What is the most economical press to start out with?

You may find that this manual has the best data for cowboy/reduced loads that you will find anywhere.

https://leeprecision.com/modern-reloading-2nd-ed.html

 

[The Outlaw Travis James]

4 hours ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

You may find that this manual has the best data for cowboy/reduced loads that you will find anywhere.

https://leeprecision.com/modern-reloading-2nd-ed.html

 

Thank you just ordered!

[The Outlaw Travis James]

On 8/5/2018 at 11:10 AM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

Send me your e-mail address and I'll send you a link to a source of very good priced, once-fired 38 Special brass ($75 for 2,300 with free shipping).  (The Wire won't let me send you a PM.)  BTW I don't bother with match grade primers.  I do shoot quality brass at major matches to keep my rifle from locking up from split cases.  A used, single-stage or turret press is the least expensive way to get started reloading (though I love my Dillons).  In reloading the cost of the powder charge is the least expensive, followed by the primer cost.  Bullets are the most expensive component so look for ways to obtain the least expensive, quality bullets you can find to keep costs down.  That often means either casting your own or buying at major matches to get free shipping.  Buy primers and powder locally if possible to avoid hazmat shipping charges.  (I buy primers in bulk lots so the Hazmat charges don't run up my cost.)

 

Welcome to the world or CAS.  Many dedicated CAS shooters get three hobbies when they join the sport - shooting, reloading and RVing.  You now have two of the three.

pm-ed

[The Outlaw Travis James]

8 hours ago, Captain Clark said:

I guess I misread  your OP looking for input on reloading for CAS shoots.

Good luck with whatever advice you find that fits your criteria.

No problem.  I wasn't really saying that our advice wasn't in line with the thread, just that my question wasn't.  I guess I was asking more along the lines of if there was a big enough difference to matter to a beginner.  Bad wording of the question.  Thanks for the advice!

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

21 hours ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

Ok what is the difference between the regular federal small pistol primers and the #100 match primers?

About $5.00 @ K.  

The match primers are for serious accuracy competition such as NRA Bullseye.

You don't need'em.

Go'n the cheap on a press, doesn't save you a thing over the long run. 

Put'n your Email up on a public firearms site, is not the best idea. 

OLG

[The Outlaw Travis James]

5 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

I often hear folks recommend starting with a single-stage press, but my experience is that is normally a waste of money unless you get a used press for very cheap so you can sell it for what it cost you. For any significant quantity of rounds such as used for practice and competition, they are just too time consuming for most people

 

But it is excellent advice to start reloading by single loading each round.  You learn the basics very well that way.

 

You can readily single load using any press. 

 

The turret presses are a big step in efficiency compared to a single stage and they are actually easier to single load each round than on a single stage press.   You can take one round and take it through all of the loading steps to a fully loaded round.

 

(On a true single stage pres, you have to resize and deprime all brass, then prime all the brass, then switch dies bell the brass  then load the powder.  Then you get to switch dies again!  Isn't this fun?  Then load and crime all the rounds.)

 

It is also possible to single load using any full progressive press.  The progressives are, once again, a huge step up in efficiency.  Sometimes it is slightly more complicated to single load but it is very possible.

 

So you can safely and easily learn to load on any press.

 

And once you learn how to single load, it is very easy to step up the pace and have a nice press that you don't mine using for higher quantity of rounds.

That is very good to know.  Another helpful peace of advice I received was a link to a Lee turret press kit tat includes everything you need to get started minus the dies.  I think I am going to go that route until it is time to upgrade.  For now, .38s and then probably my 9mm and .40 cal too.

[The Outlaw Travis James]

5 hours ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

If possible find a Mentor--someone willing to show you the 'ropes'

 

local CAS club is a good place to ask

 

a few sessions and you'll be good to go.

 

 

I have a non SASS buddy who reloads and is going to let me start to work with his pres  He uses a turret press so I think it help with the basics.  As far as recipes, I have a fellow cowboy who is going to help me out with those.  

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

4 minutes ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have a non SASS buddy who reloads and is going to let me start to work with his pres  He uses a turret press so I think it help with the basics.  As far as recipes, I have a fellow cowboy who is going to help me out with those.  

Take lots of notes. 

Also-learn how to lube the press you are using.

OLG

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

1 hour ago, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have a non SASS buddy who reloads and is going to let me start to work with his pres  He uses a turret press so I think it help with the basics.  As far as recipes, I have a fellow cowboy who is going to help me out with those.  

 

great news!

 

SASS reloading is just like the rest only we seem to shoot a lot more than most folks

 

As to loads, remember we're not trying to dent the steel, just hit it.  No need to use the top of the loading chart.  

 

I know of several long time SASS 'Wart Hogs' (those that shoot top of the chart loads and they are having hand and wrist troubles as they have aged.  

 

keep the questions and comments coming--there are a lot of folks here that are glad to help

 

 

[The Outlaw Travis James]

1 minute ago, Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L said:

 

great news!

 

SASS reloading is just like the rest only we seem to shoot a lot more than most folks

 

As to loads, remember we're not trying to dent the steel, just hit it.  No need to use the top of the loading chart.  

 

I know of several long time SASS 'Wart Hogs' (those that shoot top of the chart loads and they are having hand and wrist troubles as they have aged.  

 

keep the questions and comments coming--there are a lot of folks here that are glad to help

 

 

Thanks.  I have oodles and oodles of questions!  I will keep 'em coming for sure.  

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 4:05 PM, The Outlaw Travis James said:

I have some questions regarding reloading .38 special for CAS shoots.  

 

1. Is there a specific reloading guide for CAS reduced loads?  Or are they in the normal guides? i.e. Hornaday, Lyman, Ballistic Products, Meister, etc.                                                         Is there a better manufacturer to use for:
2. brass
3. primers
4. powder
5. bullets
6. What is the most economical press to start out with?

If nobody else has offered yet....

Send me a pm with an address and I will send you some 38 brass. It is mostly nickel from a local National Guard range, mostly once fired and some cleaned some not.

Some don't like nickel in a rifle but I have had no issues reloading them 3-4 times for rifle then another 5-6 time in my pistols. they then all go into the practice bucket and I start over. They seem to crack at the mouth earlier than yellow brass (starting at about load 7 or 8) but my pistols don't seem to care and they don't crack or hang up the rifle while they are relatively new.

Pretty sure I have some lead (not sure of weight) that I can throw in the box as well

 

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

TOTJ

Responded to your email.

Left my email in that or you can contact me through the forum

 

Regards

 

  

 

Gateway Kid

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

2 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

About $5.00 @ K.  

The match primers are for serious accuracy competition such as NRA Bullseye.

You don't need'em.

Go'n the cheap on a press, doesn't save you a thing over the long run. 

Put'n your Email up on a public firearms site, is not the best idea. 

OLG

My intent was the e-mail address would come in a private message.  I have sent the fellow the information promised.  Would be a good idea to edit the post and remove the e-mail address.

[Marauder SASS #13056]

FYI, I learned that I could readily do 38 Special brass using carbide dies with no problem. 

 

But it is MUCH easier to do 9 mm and 40 SW if you use just a little case lube even though you use a carbide sizing die.  A lot easier on the arm.

 

I got a cheap spray bottle, some liquid lanolin, some 99% rubbing alcohol and mixed the up a batch of inexpensive but very effective case lube.  Mix it 4 or 5 to one, alcohol to lanolin.

[Cheyenne Ranger, 48747L]

14 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

FYI, I learned that I could readily do 38 Special brass using carbide dies with no problem. 

 

But it is MUCH easier to do 9 mm and 40 SW if you use just a little case lube even though you use a carbide sizing die.  A lot easier on the arm.

 

I got a cheap spray bottle, some liquid lanolin, some 99% rubbing alcohol and mixed the up a batch of inexpensive but very effective case lube.  Mix it 4 or 5 to one, alcohol to lanolin.

have the same homemade mix and works well

you can find 99% at wallyworld in the HEET fuel additive.  cheapest place I've found it so far

 

[Badlands Bob #61228]

On 8/5/2018 at 9:37 PM, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

I got a cheap spray bottle, some liquid lanolin, some 99% rubbing alcohol and mixed the up a batch of inexpensive but very effective case lube.  Mix it 4 or 5 to one, alcohol to lanolin.

That's what I use except I mix it 10:1.  Works as good as any commercial lube and is about 1/4 the price.  I couldn't find liquid lanolin and 99% rubbing alcohol locally so I order it off Amazon.  The people at CVS pharmacy looked at me kind of funny when I asked.  They really looked at me funny when I told them what I wanted it for.