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Cheyenne Culpepper 32827

anyone else having Fed 209 problems with depth?

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seems I'm getting quite a few 209s where the primer is .008 of and inch below the rim,, and I've had misfires at .010..

 

anyone else experiencing this? some are .005 below which appears normal...

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The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others.

Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls.

 

All primers are not the same in dimensions.

This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls.

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The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others.

Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls.

 

All primers are not the same in dimensions.

This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls.

+1 and since I use AA's or STS's I quit trying to use the Federal shotgun primers in them.

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seems I'm getting quite a few 209s where the primer is .008 of and inch below the rim

 

I had to get new pins for my vintage 1967 SKB 500 because of the recessed 209 primers. The only reload hulls that would fire were ACTIV's. Has anyone measured or confirmed that the shot shell manufacturers are making hulls with lower primer pockets now?

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The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others.

Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls.

 

All primers are not the same in dimensions.

This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls.

+1 and since I use AA's or STS's I quit trying to use the Federal shotgun primers in them.

 

 

+2.

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The primer is deeper in the cup in Federal hulls than others.

Also, Federal hulls will hold the primer up and flush with Federal hulls and not in other hulls.

 

All primers are not the same in dimensions.

This is why reloading books recommend specific primers for specific hulls.

I just looked through a SG reloading manual and selected a favorite brand of hull and they listed loads for Remington, Winchester, Federal and CCI primers for the same hull. Different powders and wads of course. Sou your statement isn't quite correct.

 

Now there many be (or is) issues with current Federal primers as far as seating depth.

 

EDIT: To answer CC's question, no I haven't had problems with Federal SG primers in Remington Gun Club hulls

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I just loaded maybe 180 rounds and a good 50 were suspect!! way more than normal.. time to leave Fed 209s behind,, btw, I'm using AA hulls, and hate the box Fed come in too!!! too bad I have 700 left!!!

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Interesting!! I have used Federal 209A primers ever since I started shooting CAS. NEVER have I had a FTF, or any other problem. I exclusively use STS hulls. I would be suspect of my firing pins or hammer springs if FTF's were to occur, because I have always found Federal primers to be very reliable.

 

If you use a MEC loader, it's impossible to seat a primer too deep, due to the design of the primer seater. Some other brands of presses, can and are susceptible of seating primers too deep. So this is something that could possibly cause FTF's. Dished case heads is another cause.

 

RBK

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Had the same problem. Lot of misfires in Kay's 87 but not as much in my Stoeger. Switched to Winchester - problem gone.

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I just loaded maybe 180 rounds and a good 50 were suspect!! way more than normal.. time to leave Fed 209s behind,, btw, I'm using AA hulls, and hate the box Fed come in too!!! too bad I have 700 left!!!

what press ared you using?

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How many times are you reloading the same hull?

 

When I started playing with my Lee Loadall, I had some 5 lbs of old Pyrodex of various grades that had accumulated over 30 years. I took some 20 hulls and shot them to death to see how many reloads I could get out of them. I started getting FTF after about 8 reloads that I traced back to deep primer seating.

 

12 gauge hulls are too cheap and plentiful to reload over and over. But not so with 10 gauge. I can repair a loose or deep pocket by dropping a big bolt down it, set it on an oak block and giving it a good smack with a hammer. They make a tool for this but I'm too cheap to buy one.

 

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/1338

 

Would the MEC size master "squoze" in a loose pocket?

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using a mec 9000, some of the suspect loads are once fired AAs,,,.....

 

gonna mic some primers today, and check the diameter of them

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It's just some lots of Federal primers that the internal primer cup gets set too deep in the (steel) outer shell.

 

The quality control has gone to h#!! on some Federal production over the last few years. It's not very many lots, but I have gotten two lots of 209A primers where there was a problem with deep setting, and then a FTF in some double barrel shotguns.

 

I use only Cheddite 209 primers now. They ALWAYS have a primer cup that is flush set in the outer shell of the primer.

 

BTW- both lots I have reported to Federal over the last 5 years, asking them to make me whole somehow. They never replied.

 

Second BTW - the loading data on Federal 209A primers has to be different than when using most of the other 209 primers. Not because the primer cup might be deep set though. It's because the 209A primer is quite a bit hotter and raises chamber pressure on most loads. So, you will find comparison loads in the same hull and wad and shot weight where the Fed 209A load is half a grain or more lighter on powder weight than Rem STS 209 or Win 209 data. THAT is why the loading manuals call out specific primers in their loads.

 

 

 

Has anyone measured or confirmed that the shot shell manufacturers are making hulls with lower primer pockets now?

 

And, no, this problem is not a problem with the hulls! Primer pocket dimensions are held pretty much standard from what I've seen. Besides, there is no "bottom" to a shotgun shell primer pocket. The battery cup (shell) around the primer has a lip to it. It's this lip that stops the primer flush with the head of the shotgun hull. A primer pocket has to be blown WAY OUT oversize on internal diameter before the outer shell of the primer sits any deeper into a shotgun hull! This problem is all caused by the factory letting their production equipment get out of spec and setting the inner primer too deep in the battery cup.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

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It's just some lots of Federal primers that the internal primer cup gets set too deep in the (steel) outer shell.

 

The quality control has gone to h#!! on some Federal production over the last few years. It's not very many lots, but I have gotten two lots of 209A primers where there was a problem with deep setting, and then a FTF in some double barrel shotguns.

 

I use only Cheddite 209 primers now. They ALWAYS have a primer cup that is flush set in the outer shell of the primer.

 

BTW- both lots I have reported to Federal over the last 5 years, asking them to make me whole somehow. They never replied.

 

Second BTW - the loading data on Federal 209A primers has to be different than when using most o fhte other 209 primers. Not because the primer cup might be deep set though. It's because the 209A primer is quite a bit hotte and raises chamber pressure on most loads. So, you will find comparison loads in the same hull and wad and shot weight where the Fed 209A load is half a grain or more lighter on powder weight than Rem STS 209 or Win 209 data. THAT is why the loading manuals call out specific primers in their loads.

 

 

And, no, this problem is not a problem with the hulls! Primer pocket dimensions are held pretty much standard from what I've seen. Besides, there is no "bottom" to a shotgun shell primer pocket. The battery cup (shell) around the primer has a lip to it. It's this lip that stops the primer flush with the head of the shotgun hull. A primer pocket has to be blown WAY OUT oversize on internal diameter before the outer shell of the primer sits any deeper into a shotgun hull! This problem is all caused by the factory letting their production equipment get out of spec and setting the inner primer too deep in the battery cup.

 

 

Good luck, GJ

+1+1

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I used Winchester primers in AA, Red and Gray hulls; the STS and Nitro gold Remington's. Never had a problem with them. I had a brick of Federal 209's and out of 3 boxes I loaded up, I had 8 FTF's in my Baikal. I even switched barrels to see if it was just a light strike, but no difference. Put those away and went back to the Winchester's. Now I'm also using the CCI magnum 209's Those work very well.

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Never had that problem with Federals, but have had that problem with 2 different lots of Winchesters. Use Cheddite now. No problems so far.

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With my back up TTN clone, I get light hits with the Federal. With my BSS, Stoeger(4 of them), 1897's (6 of them) and main match TTN clone no problems.

Thinking I'll be loading a bunch of cheddites to sample them in the backup ttn.

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I get them with my 97s, all winnies, my skb and browning...

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I've run through a couple of thousand of the Fed 209s with no problems.

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I used to only have a few here and there, last 200 I loaded there were at least 50!!

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EDIT: To answer CC's question, no I haven't had problems with Federal SG primers in Remington Gun Club hulls

Ditto this - I load BP and have 6 or 7 flats loaded, and about 10K Federal primers on the shelf. I would be sorely disappointed if they began to fail :o I do notice that they don't look 100% seated, but they all have fired for the last several years.

 

CR

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Like GJ and Possum Skinner. I've been using Cheddit 209 primers for 6 years. Never and I mean never have I had a problem. They sit flush and will go off with even the lightest tuned SKB👍🏼

I've had problems with others in a light tuned SG.

 

Pretty Boy, they have been selling the Cheddit at the club house at GOA. For a really good price.

 

Hope to see ya at GOA.

 

Regards,

Ringer

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I tried the Federals years ago because I had won some. I had misfires, especially in my '87. I only use Winchesters now.

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Like GJ and Possum Skinner. I've been using Cheddit 209 primers for 6 years. Never and I mean never have I had a problem. They sit flush and will go off with even the lightest tuned SKB

I've had problems with others in a light tuned SG.

 

Pretty Boy, they have been selling the Cheddit at the club house at GOA. For a really good price.

 

Hope to see ya at GOA.

 

Regards,

Ringer

a couple thousand will be going home with me!!!! thank you!!!

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