Bad Hand Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I was reviewing the ROI handbook and found this: Shooters competing in the Gunfighter or “B” Western Category must wear two standard holsters, one on each side of the body. Cross draw, shoulder, or butt forward holsters are not allowed within these two categories. It is also necessary to note that during the course of fire, the shooter must be given the ability to draw and holster revolvers from “straight hang” holsters and the ability to retrieve and return vertically staged double-barreled shotguns without penalty. I thought that gunfighters were now allowed to have butt forward holsters if they used the cavlary or twist draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 The handbooks have not been updated since the convention. Pale Wolf Brunelle is working to get that done as soon as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 I was reviewing the ROI handbook and found this: Shooters competing in the Gunfighter or “B” Western Category must wear two standard holsters, one on each side of the body. Cross draw, shoulder, or butt forward holsters are not allowed within these two categories. It is also necessary to note that during the course of fire, the shooter must be given the ability to draw and holster revolvers from “straight hang” holsters and the ability to retrieve and return vertically staged double-barreled shotguns without penalty. I thought that gunfighters were now allowed to have butt forward holsters if they used the cavlary cavalry or twist draw. The "butt-forward" carry restrictions were voted out of the rulebooks by the TGs at the last Summit. Additional allowances have been made for GF/BW categories regarding that method of wearing the revolvers. Working on clarifications that would allow those categories to actually use Cross Draw when shooting "Double Duelist" style instead of Gunfighter-style...BUT ABSOLUTELY NOT when shooting GF-style in any category. (I.E. NO DOUBLE X-DRAW ALLOWED!!) Also working on edits to the "straight hang" holster clarification as it applies to ALL TYPES of holster/wear. As soon as the rulebook updates have been approved by the WB/ROC combined, they will be posted on the SASS Handbook page. I've been sending the draft copies of the edits to those Instructors who have scheduled classes prior to the publication of the updated materials. In the meantime, I would recommend that no one post/quote references to the obsolete rules that are no longer in effect. Here is a LINK to the minutes of the TG Summit Meeting that lists the agenda items and clarifications that will be incorporated into the most recent versions of the SHB/RO1/RO2 materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted January 12, 2016 Author Share Posted January 12, 2016 How are we supposed to know what the rules are if we don't ask? It's bad enough we have to check the "shooters handbook". ROI & ROII handbooks, now we are supposed to go on line to ensure we are up to date on the rules? In the meantime, I would recommend that no one post/quote references to the obsolete rules that are no longer in effect. Here is a LINK to the minutes of the TG Summit Meeting that lists the agenda items and clarifications that will be incorporated into the most recent versions of the SHB/RO1/RO2 materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 How are we supposed to know what the rules are if we don't ask? It's bad enough we have to check the "shooters handbook". ROI & ROII handbooks, now we are supposed to go on line to ensure we are up to date on the rules? I didn't say, "Don't ask."...just reiterating that the rulebooks are in the process of being updated. That is NOT an "automagical" process. Where else would you propose that we publish the current versions of the rules? IMO...if one has access to the Wire(s), one should have access to the SASS Homepage and the link to the rules. They will be updated as soon as all of the combined WB/ROC have a chance to review the multiple pages of edits and clarifications base on the TG Summit voting results, ROC clarifications, as well as amending the rules to reflect a number of past "WtC?" clarifications over the past year. We (ROC) are attempting to make certain that any edits made post-Summit are the last that might be required until after the next general meeting of the Territorial Governors. Some of the delay is due to the holiday season, during which various members focused on family (blood relatives) rather than SASS-related issues. Others of us are currently dealing with medical concerns (family and/or personal)...so the wheels aren't turning as quickly as some would like. "Attitude" is NOT going to make things happen any faster. Neither will complaining about the way the system works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted January 12, 2016 Share Posted January 12, 2016 How are we supposed to know what the rules are if we don't ask? It's bad enough we have to check the "shooters handbook". ROI & ROII handbooks, now we are supposed to go on line to ensure we are up to date on the rules? In the meantime, I would recommend that no one post/quote references to the obsolete rules that are no longer in effect. Here is a LINK to the minutes of the TG Summit Meeting that lists the agenda items and clarifications that will be incorporated into the most recent versions of the SHB/RO1/RO2 materials. Did, your TG give your club a report of the recent changes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Did, your TG give your club a report of the recent changes? Yes, that's why I ask the original question. I was refreshing my memory now that a new shooting season has started. If asking a question gives me an "attitude" so be it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Unless I plan to shoot my pistols upside-down, like Bob Munden, I don't see advantage to shooting GF with the butts forward. I guess that I will stick to the more conventional method, but I do appreciate the change in rules to make some people happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yes, that's why I ask the original question. I was refreshing my memory now that a new shooting season has started. If asking a question gives me an "attitude" so be it! No one "gave" you the attitude, it seem to be there already by the way the questions were asked and the additional comments. Ref: post #4 (just the way it reads to me...but I just got home from another surgery, so may have been a bit more "sensitive" than usual at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Unless I plan to shoot my pistols upside-down, like Bob Munden, I don't see advantage to shooting GF with the butts forward. I guess that I will stick to the more conventional method, but I do appreciate the change in rules to make some people happy. Shooting revolvers upside down helps eliminate the need for any "hold over" with fixed sights...and the reverse muzzle "flip" aids in reholstering at the end of the shooting string. If Bob were alive today, he'd tell you that it takes a LOT of practice to master that style of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Bad Hand, actually... I think it was the quoting of the old rule that started things south. And we all know how efficient the "committee" system "is". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted January 13, 2016 Author Share Posted January 13, 2016 Griff, I was quoting the current on line ROI manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Yep, current until the convention... now it has to go thru a "committee" before the "new, improved, updated" version can be massaged enough to please everyone. Why I'm still not goin' "butt forward"... or would that be "backing up"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Shooting revolvers upside down helps eliminate the need for any "hold over" with fixed sights...and the reverse muzzle "flip" aids in reholstering at the end of the shooting string. If Bob were alive today, he'd tell you that it takes a LOT of practice to master that style of shooting. I saw a guy at a match last month employ this method. Is really was a sight to see. I almost went out and bought new holsters, but I think I'll stick with shooting gunfighter the traditional way. For now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804 Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 What about twist draw, or double twist draw? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Committee ....... That's how we got the Camel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 What about twist draw, or double twist draw? Twist draw is the only way a GF could use a butt forward holster. We have a Frontiersman who uses butt forward "cavalry" holster with a twist draw. Great style points, but does not do much for rapid target acquisition. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Style points versus good scores. I will continue to use straight draw like a good gunfighter. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantankerous Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I continually wish that these style points as they were, would compensate for some of my misses on each stage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Hombre Sin Nombre Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 Style points versus good scores. I will continue to use straight draw like a good gunfighter. :) Since only about 1% of us will ever be fast enough to matter all that much, especially us gunfighters, I'll continue to appreciate those that do it different and score style points. The guy I saw doing it, Lefty Eastman, was still faster than me on the draw and got style points so the best of both worlds. I continually wish that these style points as they were, would compensate for some of my misses on each stage... After I win the lottery and buy SASS, I'll add a style point provision in the rules just for you. Something like an exchange of one style point per miss per stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 I continually wish that these style points as they were, would compensate for some of my misses on each stage... Ya mean they DON"T? For 30 years I've chasin' style points, AND NOW you tell me they ain't good fer nuttin'? Technically, I use slow times to make up to the Missus. She likes it when take my time! . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted January 13, 2016 Share Posted January 13, 2016 How are we supposed to know what the rules are if we don't ask? It's bad enough we have to check the "shooters handbook". ROI & ROII handbooks, now we are supposed to go on line to ensure we are up to date on the rules? Don't forget about the ROIII handbook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Dodge Posted January 14, 2016 Share Posted January 14, 2016 Wild Bill is would be proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sawyer Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I see lots of jabs and complaints about the way rules are passed and put out to the shooters! I haven't seen ANY suggestions on how to make it better. THANK YOU to the TG's, ROC Committee Members, and the WB for all your hard work and efforts! At least one SASS member appreciates you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I see lots of jabs and complaints about the way rules are passed and put out to the shooters! I haven't seen ANY suggestions on how to make it better. THANK YOU to the TG's, ROC Committee Members, and the WB for all your hard work and efforts! At least one SASS member appreciates you! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 I see lots of jabs and complaints about the way rules are passed and put out to the shooters! I haven't seen ANY suggestions on how to make it better. THANK YOU to the TG's, ROC Committee Members, and the WB for all your hard work and efforts! At least one SASS member appreciates you! +3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 To paraphrase Winston Churchill (I think): Our system of rules dissemination is the worst one in the world, except for all the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Jack Daniels,58780 Posted January 15, 2016 Share Posted January 15, 2016 Once the SASS Convention occurs, or the TG Summit is held, the handbooks on the web page are no longer the current ones. One needs to look at the date for each book to determine if it is from before the convention or summit or from afterwards. The ROC is made up of volunteer SASS members who work for the betterment of our game. They do this with no thought of payment, and in their free time. People need to remember this and have some amount of patience. The convention was held, rules were changed or modified. The holidays happened, who can fault the ROC members for putting family obligations in front of working on the new handbooks? If you have questions about the rule changes, or perceived contradictions in the handbooks, your TG should be able and available to help you sort matters out. The process is not perfect, nothing is, but it is the process we have to use and it has served SASS well throughout the years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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