SASS- Open Door Communication

[Bad Hand]

Misty, et all

SASS - what can it/should it do for me? Provide a organization to represent the interests of the members, for whom without we would not need an organization. Some of those items, - rules for the sport. Organization of State/Regional/National/World championships. Periodical to help inform the members/interested parties about SASS, and the equipment, rules, advise,and shooting events. This needs to be accessible to all - I'd suggest a written communication, like a magazine. Truly once a month seems to be the standard. Provide education on the sport, and support activities to grow members, or at least maintain a level of membership which allows for the organization to exist. As for our current "financial" crisis as it were, evaluation of the organization and how to best serve the members within our financial needs. I'd suggest a elected board may be a path to our future. I'd also like to see sponsorships and more corporate involvement.

I'm confused, don't all of your recommendations already exist?

[Rye Miles #13621]

I'm confused, don't all of your recommendations already exist?

Yea they had that great "Refer a friend" program that netted you a humungous $5.00 off your membership. I see that helped a bunch!

[Lost Trail]

This thread below is a prime example of how there needs to be a method for a member to put his status into an inactive mode, not have to pay the full annual dues (maybe $5/yr) and retain his/her alias.

 

http://sassnet.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=241169

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Since increased membership (or at least to stop membership loss) is mandatory for the future of SASS, I made this suggestion in another post. The "tax" on affiliated clubs does not sit well with many members and clubs. An alternative that should be easier to swallow would be a totally positive incentive to grow SASS. If clubs promote SASS membership as a way to help their financial position, reward them directly without the negative of a tax. For each new member or say an old dropped member that had not paid for a period of time (like 2 yrs as an example), pay the club for bringing in the new member, say $5 or $10 of the new higher fee. Develop a SASS application that clubs could add their club name to and hand out at shoots every month to non members. When SASS gets these new applications, remit the incentives to clubs promptly. last time I suggested this on another thread, I was told that a membership drive was started and given to the TGs at the 2014 convention. That obviously did not work, so why not try something different. I am convinced that the fertile ground for new members are the very large number of existing CAS shooters that are not SASS members.

 

Another idea would be to even reduce the first year membership for new members or for members that had not renewed for a period of say a couple of years. Several other non shooting clubs I belong to give the new member a membership fee break, knowing that a large percentage will renew at least for a few years.

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

 

Issued this question on another thread and no one seemed to want to address it!! So I will ask it here, on the other thread the # 67000 was used saying this is how many non active members are out there.

 

I asked how many of that # do you think still shoot only local matches where up to date membership is not needed to participate?

 

I know that I shoot several small clubs local monthlys and there are several shooters at ea one that you will never see at other clubs or if you do maybe only 1-2 close to them and you never see them at state or larger shoots.

 

Are they paid up members? Who would know! Also why would they pay every yr if they do not have to? Is there any incentive to get these shooters to spend the $$$ on up to date membership to shoot a few monthly matches a yr?

 

I for one think there are a lot of these types out there, maybe I'm wrong but I think I may be more right than wrong!,

 

If only a quarter of that # fit into this group that's 16,750 people! If they only paid a token local shooters fee of $20.00 ea that covered them for local monthly non sanctioned match shooting it would almost completely off set the $20.00 increase we see now!

 

How could this be implemented and made to work? I have some ideas but what do you all think? Is it even a problem?

 

Spades H.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

what I like about this open communication is that we got along without the moderators being involved.... we can/should police ourselves,,, or use the report button if things get out of hand,,,

[Wyatt Hurts SASS#72737]

Misty thank you for opening the door with your question. If SASS has a long term future it has to market itself to younger people and those who have teens and tweens. SASS is a wonderful alternative to the digital, plugged in, world and it is a place where communication skills still matter. Impulse control sportsmanship and a whole host of values still matter in the SASS world. This is RARE in 2015. I have a good window into teen life (those who know me and know my work will understand my frame of reference).

 

Parents pay cellphone bills every month for their kids that eclipse a year's new SASS membership fee. What is it worth to try and provide your children and our collective youth with this opportunity? With all this said, there are things that I would selfishly like to see moving forward (5 &10 year and life memberships, some new and ongoing content on technique, training, and on the mental part of the game). None of that is nearly as important as knowing that 30 years from now a new generation of the SASS community will still exist even if they too have to address changes in costs.

 

Wyatt Hurts

[Thunder Creek Kid]

Give us back the Cowboy Chronicle. The online thing is a joke!!!

[Blackey Cole]

Speak for yourself I've been using the PDF version since 2008

[Rance - SASS # 54090]

Myself, my wife and I read the paper chronicle every month..

My wife a I joined together both as life members.

Always just a (1) chronicle to our address..

Not a big deal.. But yeah.. A savings to SASS..

Since it went digital.. My wife has never read it..

I've opened it up and read maybe 4 of 'em..

 

So to my thinkin...

If they had posted all these fee's 2-3 months ago in the chronicle...

Only about 20-25% of the membership would have known...

 

Rance

Thinkin' sorry Blackey.. No offense intended...

but I spoke fer myself.. .

[Bad Hand]

What's the problem with the on line CC? I read it, can go back and read old copies, and don't have to recycle the paper issue. It's the same content.

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

What's the problem with the on line CC? I read it, can go back and read old copies, and don't have to recycle the paper issue. It's the same content.

Many people find trying to read something like a magazine from a computer screen very hard on the eyes as well as difficult to navagate. The bottom line is that for the most part it has been one huge flop for SASS.

 

Glad you like it, but to answer your question better, look up the threads about it from the archives of the wire, think you'll see it never was excepted by most, and I fear a contributing reason for the drop in them thar part timers that felt that was one of the things they could put their hands on to justify membership!

 

Right, wrong, like it, or not, it is what it is, why do you think SASS is bringing it back in paper?

 

Spades H.

[Bad Hand]

Many people find trying to read something like a magazine from a computer screen very hard on the eyes as well as difficult to navagate. The bottom line is that for the most part it has been one huge flop for SASS.

 

Glad you like it, but to answer your question better, look up the threads about it from the archives of the wire, think you'll see it never was excepted by most, and I fear a contributing reason for the drop in them thar part timers that felt that was one of the things they could put their hands on to justify membership!

 

Right, wrong, like it, or not, it is what it is, why do you think SASS is bringing it back in paper?

 

Spades H.

By most? I followed the posts when the transition was made and founf the nay-sayers were the "usual suspects" who whine about everything that SASS changes. Go back and check, probably no more than 12-15 complainers, who made multiple posts.

[Long Branch Louie]

I would like to see life membership payment plans, like the NRA does.

I would also like to say I appreciate your efforts to be transparent. Maybe there is nothing we can do but raise prices by $20.00, but seeing the bottom line and membership numbers published for all to see makes it more palatable.

I would also like to suggest some sort of membership package for families so that folks with a wife and maybe a couple of kids trying to shoot could save some money over buying individual memberships for each one.

[Spades Hanlin SASS#66204]

By most? I followed the posts when the transition was made and founf the nay-sayers were the "usual suspects" who whine about everything that SASS changes. Go back and check, probably no more than 12-15 complainers, who made multiple posts.

Them thar 12 - 15 complainers must have some heck of a sway with SASS for them to decide to bring back a paper version of the chronicle even if it is only quarterly!!

 

You asked what's not to like, gave you an answer, and I'll be willing to bet my custom Rodeo's there's a site more than 12-15 people that don't like the on line chronicle.

 

I don't care one way or the other, as I said before the chronicle is'nt why I'm a member, it did however mean a lot, to a lot of others, if ya really think there are only 12-15 complainers about the wire version of the chronicle we could start a post and ask!!

 

Spades H.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

By most? I followed the posts when the transition was made and founf the nay-sayers were the "usual suspects" who whine about everything that SASS changes. Go back and check, probably no more than 12-15 complainers, who made multiple posts.

 

 

WAY more than 12-15 "complainers". I would venture to say that several thousand of the 67000 inactive members quit renewing membership when the paper CC was discontinued. I know several myowndangself, they are friends of mine. One of the worst marketing moves of all time. Just because you like something doesn't mean all the rest of us have to. The ads in the paper should have easily paid for its printing. Thousands of extra copies should have been printed and distributed (and yes I know there was a bit of that done) for recruitment purposes. I will also venture to say that the paper CC brought in more new members than anything else other than maybe word of mouth. Just because some of us disagree with your viewpoint and voice our displeasure does not make us "complainers". Some of us were sure the move would hurt the organization and this has clearly been borne out.

[Capt. Morgan Rum, SASS #6859]

Like they say; 47% of all statistics are made up right on the spot!

[Lost Trail]

I think the CC, whether printed or digital, is a good thing. I don't mind there only being a digital version for my own use but I can definitely see a use for a printed version. For example:

 

When I was still teaching SCUBA, I subscribed to Dive Training Magazine. They would send me an extra 10-15 copies of each issue. I always made sure to keep these in my truck. Whenever I went to a doctor/dentist appointment, oil change, etc., I would leave a copy in the waiting room. I got prostective students calling on roughly 35% of the issues I left. I asked how a caller found out about my business (I was an independent instructor not affiliated with any PADI dive facility), and those that said, "I saw a copy of Dive Training with your business on the label.", I knew it had been effective.

 

Maybe SASS would provide permission for members to reprint the CC and leave them at various places we visit.

 

If I want the CC in printed form, I can print the pdf and read it wherever I want.

[Blackwater 53393]

One of the things that got me into S.A.S.S. is the printed Chronicle. I was at a gun show and a leather vendor had copies laid out on his tables. "Take one!" he says.

 

That's all it took!!

 

Many vendors, during S.A.S.S.'s most recent growth spurt, also did other shows besides CAS and they put the Chronicle out for folks to look at and discuss!!!

 

Anybody besides me see a correlation here???

 

Back to the top so's they don't forget that we've got plenty to say and to ask again about a payment plan for Life Membership!!

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Give us back the Cowboy Chronicle. The online thing is a joke!!!

The online thing is great, no more papers lying around.

Just download to your mini iPad man, and it's there when you want it. Save it in iBooks you can read it anywhere.

Paper is last century stuff lol.

[Lost Trail]

Give us back the Cowboy Chronicle. The online thing is a joke!!!

It's a PDF file, print it.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Lower the life membership like the NRA did a couple years ago. They were running a special for $300.00 and I did it! Run a special life membership for maybe 6 months for $300 and I bet you get a good amount of members to do it! I for one would!

 

Rye

[Most Wanted]

Considering its $800 now they wouldn't have to drop it that low for me to jump.

[ShadowCatcher]

Dear SASS members:

 

With the events of late, there have been countless questions poised that surround "What does SASS do for us"? (Be it in exchange for membership dues and/or club affiliation fees). I've been communicating with several members as well who have sent me lists of suggestions; and most of those suggestions we are already doing and our members and clubs just aren't aware of the benefits and resources that are at their disposal as members and affiliated clubs.

 

With that being said, I'd like to open the floor up to you- our members and ask...

 

1- All members: What would you like to see SASS do for you?

 

2- SASS Affiliated Clubs: What support or services would you like to receive from SASS?

 

I am going to compose an email broadcast survey-of-sorts that will go out to all members on this topic; but I thought I could get the conversation started here and now.

 

Thank you in advance for your feedback; it is invaluable.

 

Misty

Misty,

 

I'll start by saying Thank You! It is refreshing to hear such open and honest communication, and

by someone who obviously loves this game as much as ANY other player.

 

I notice that most of the issues being addressed are ones of either communications, or of cost.

I'm fortunate enough to not have any issue with the cost aspects, and I always appreciate open

communication.

 

My only contribution to this is to say that frankly, I have no issue with anything SASS has been doing -

I came to play, and I'll play as long as I can safely handle a firearm.

 

Keep me as informed as you can, and I'll be happy.

 

Ride safe,

 

Shadow Catcher

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

I'd like to see spouses 1/2 price or may be a $100 annual husband and wife fee. I don't have any idea of both H/W members versus a wife that also shoots but is not a member and maybe that would be a money loser.

 

While I like the sound of reduced price for 65 and older, that too may be a money loser considering the member of Silver Senior and older we have at out annual shoot.

 

Yes, it will be easier for large clubs to come up with the money, but I think that a flat rate for clubs is the best way.

[ShadowCatcher]

What's the problem with the on line CC? I read it, can go back and read old copies, and don't have to recycle the paper issue. It's the same content.

It's not about the content. Many of us find having a paper periodical in the hand to be very pleasing. To be able to share it with a friend even more so.

I can't imagine how many folks have taken a second look at cowboys and cowgirls shooting guns and found them more favorable after seeing how they have fun,

nor even how many have decided to come try it our based on seeing the pictures in the paper.... Seeing and sharing something on a computer screen

or iPad is ephemeral. it goes away in seconds, but handling a magazine may have folks engrossed for hours . . .

 

Further, many of us are tired of subjecting our brains to EM all day and all evening too, and want a nice paper book or magazine to read in the evening before retiring,

rather than subjecting ourselves to the blue light pollution that pads and kindles provide.

 

Retro or old fashioned is not bad, and in fact in many cases is better. Or we wouldn't be playing a game based in the 19th century, now would we?

 

Shadow Catcher

[Tyrel Cody]

It's not about the content. Many of us find having a paper periodical in the hand to be very pleasing. To be able to share it with a friend even more so.

I can't imagine how many folks have taken a second look at cowboys and cowgirls shooting guns and found them more favorable after seeing how they have fun,

nor even how many have decided to come try it our based on seeing the pictures in the paper.... Seeing and sharing something on a computer screen

or iPad is ephemeral. it goes away in seconds, but handling a magazine may have folks engrossed for hours . . .

 

Further, many of us are tired of subjecting our brains to EM all day and all evening too, and want a nice paper book or magazine to read in the evening before retiring,

rather than subjecting ourselves to the blue light pollution that pads and kindles provide.

 

Retro or old fashioned is not bad, and in fact in many cases is better. Or we wouldn't be playing a game based in the 19th century, now would we?

 

Shadow Catcher

Well said, I couldn't agree more. At least SASS is compromising and bringing it back quarterly.

[Frontier Lone Rider]

What are the advantages to the membership or customers of SASS going to a not for profit or non-profit organization ran by the WB?

 

If this new business venture is still ran by the WB, then why bother and why should the customers pay for this change?

 

Shouldn't the new SASS be ran by a board elected by the paying membership? Wouldn't this board then hire a CEO to manage the daily activities?

 

OR, are we just paying more for the WB?

[Blackey Cole]

If they dropped their membership because of the cc going digital they must not have been shooting too many sass matches.

[Gran'pa Jef]

"1- All members: What would you like to see SASS do for you?"

 

"2- SASS Affiliated Clubs: What support or services would you like to receive from SASS?"

 

Before anwsering, I'll like to tell you as an example what FFTir ( french nonprofit organization in charge of monotoring shooting activities on behalf of the French state) is doing:

A) the clubs pay an annual fee of 90Euros ie 100$

B)each member pays an annual fee of 70Euros (80$)

C) FFTir provides shooting licences to the clubs based on the security of premises

C) it provides shooting insurances covering the club for all its activities

D) it provides shooters shooting licences and insurances for all casualties happening to themselves or third parties

E) it provides security shooting rules

F) it financially helps clubs to developp shooting schools for juniors for instance

G) it delivers pre authorizations to purchase specific types of hand guns

 

That being said,

 

1) as Misty said, SASS should improve its communication to let know what it is doing for clubs and its members

2) I expect from SASS shooting and safety rules, and I think that's pretty well done

3) for foreign shooters who don't speak english the hanbooks are well translated as far as France is concerned. Can't speak for other countries, but nobody complains at the last DOT, thus I expect it's also ok.

I think it could be a good idea to have in each country a "senior TG " in charge to pass on the right interpretation of the rules in coordination with Palewolf

4) one question: as far as insurance are concerned, are the clubs getting some kind of insurance when organizing SASS matches?

5) and as far as annual fees are concerned, my comments

51) a part from SASS shooting rules (and it's a lot) what clubs are getting?

52) instead of having club fees variing from 0 to 100$ may I suggest a 50$ flat annual fee

53) CAS lacks buckaroos and juniors, no fee for those shooters seems a good idea

 

Least and last, as we say in French let's not make a mountain out of a molehill

Club annual fee is worth 4 boxes of ammos

The incraese of the individual fee is worth one box...

 

And paying that to SASS is worth shooting Cowboy Action and Wild Bunch , meeting great people at EOT DOT or Winter Range, with or without improvement of what is existing right now!

 

Happy Gran'pa Jef!

[Lost Trail]

It's not about the content. Many of us find having a paper periodical in the hand to be very pleasing. To be able to share it with a friend even more so.

I can't imagine how many folks have taken a second look at cowboys and cowgirls shooting guns and found them more favorable after seeing how they have fun,

nor even how many have decided to come try it our based on seeing the pictures in the paper.... Seeing and sharing something on a computer screen

or iPad is ephemeral. it goes away in seconds, but handling a magazine may have folks engrossed for hours . . .

 

Further, many of us are tired of subjecting our brains to EM all day and all evening too, and want a nice paper book or magazine to read in the evening before retiring,

rather than subjecting ourselves to the blue light pollution that pads and kindles provide.

 

Retro or old fashioned is not bad, and in fact in many cases is better. Or we wouldn't be playing a game based in the 19th century, now would we?

 

Shadow Catcher

Again, it is a PDF file, it can be printed and then read anywhere you take it.

 

Cost of a 500-sheet ream of paper ±$7.99 or $0.016 per sheet. Last CC was 84 pages so $1.34 in paper cost if you can't duplex (print both sides), duplexed about $0.67.

 

What does it cost for SASS to print? $30,000 per year is a number I recall. Divide that by the active, paying members and it's roughly $1.50 per copy plus SASS pays postage.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Considering its $800 now they wouldn't have to drop it that low for me to jump.

I agree, $400.00????

[Smoken D]

Again, it is a PDF file, it can be printed and then read anywhere you take it.

 

Cost of a 500-sheet ream of paper ±$7.99 or $0.016 per sheet. Last CC was 84 pages so $1.34 in paper cost if you can't duplex (print both sides), duplexed about $0.67.

 

What does it cost for SASS to print? $30,000 per year is a number I recall. Divide that by the active, paying members and it's roughly $1.50 per copy plus SASS pays postage.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

Cost of ink? Don't forget to include that.

[Lost Trail]

 

Cost of ink? Don't forget to include that.

Yep, I have not amortized our ink/toner costs. I print my items on a color laserjet, high capacity so I would imagine the 42 pages (I can duplex) of this last CC would be in the neighborhood of $0.10-$0.15 total. So all in my cost should be about $0.80 to print this last CC.

 

I would still like to know if it would be permissible to print out copies of the CC, staple them and leave them at various locations.

[Lost Trail]

"1- All members: What would you like to see SASS do for you?"

 

"2- SASS Affiliated Clubs: What support or services would you like to receive from SASS?"

 

Before anwsering, I'll like to tell you as an example what FFTir ( french nonprofit organization in charge of monotoring shooting activities on behalf of the French state) is doing:

A) the clubs pay an annual fee of 90Euros ie 100$

B)each member pays an annual fee of 70Euros (80$)

C) FFTir provides shooting licences to the clubs based on the security of premises

C) it provides shooting insurances covering the club for all its activities

D) it provides shooters shooting licences and insurances for all casualties happening to themselves or third parties

E) it provides security shooting rules

F) it financially helps clubs to developp shooting schools for juniors for instance

G) it delivers pre authorizations to purchase specific types of hand guns

 

That being said,

 

1) as Misty said, SASS should improve its communication to let know what it is doing for clubs and its members

2) I expect from SASS shooting and safety rules, and I think that's pretty well done

3) for foreign shooters who don't speak english the hanbooks are well translated as far as France is concerned. Can't speak for other countries, but nobody complains at the last DOT, thus I expect it's also ok.

I think it could be a good idea to have in each country a "senior TG " in charge to pass on the right interpretation of the rules in coordination with Palewolf

4) one question: as far as insurance are concerned, are the clubs getting some kind of insurance when organizing SASS matches?

5) and as far as annual fees are concerned, my comments

51) a part from SASS shooting rules (and it's a lot) what clubs are getting?

52) instead of having club fees variing from 0 to 100$ may I suggest a 50$ flat annual fee

53) CAS lacks buckaroos and juniors, no fee for those shooters seems a good idea

 

Least and last, as we say in French let's not make a mountain out of a molehill

Club annual fee is worth 4 boxes of ammos

The incraese of the individual fee is worth one box...

 

And paying that to SASS is worth shooting Cowboy Action and Wild Bunch , meeting great people at EOT DOT or Winter Range, with or without improvement of what is existing right now!

 

Happy Gran'pa Jef!

This all sounds well and good as presented. However, knowing that so many things are subsidized by taxpayer dollars in France and the EU, knowing that tax rates on income are rather steep in France and the EU, I wonder how such benefits can be offered at such seemingly reasonable rates?

 

Where does all the funding come from for the FFTir?