Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I got a call from an ATF agent that said they "recovered" a Taurus .45 (can't remember the model) in Kentucky. He gave me the name of the purp and it was a long mexican name. I told him I won that gun at an NRA dinner/raffle and sold it at a gun show here in Ohio. Ohio law says you have to verify that who you sold it to is an Ohio resident. I did that. The agent said next time to get a receipt! Get a receipt??? For who? The law says I don't have to do that so I guess he's just making' his job easier. Nothing to worry about he was just following up, he said. Kinda scary though, in all my years of buying and selling guns this is the first time this happened! Anyone else have the ATF call them? Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoken D Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Nope, but always have a bill of sale when I do sell one just in, case to protect myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ohio law says to just request for the buyer to show he's a resident of Ohio. If I was buying a gun at a gun show and they wanted my name and address on a bill of sale I would say NO WAY!!! I don't want to give my address/phone to someone I don't know at a gun show no less! I'll sign a cash receipt maybe but that's it. How am I protecting myself if I follow the law and it doesn't say anything about getting a receipt!?? I'm perplexed!~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Following the law and protecting yourself are not always the same thing. I always do a bill of sale. It's an extra step that can be beneficial down the road. That's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tascosa, SASS# 24838 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 +1 what Utah said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I never let a gun I sell leave my hand without going through a dealer and that gun coming out of my name. Several years ago I gave a gun to a friend in appreciation for a lot of work he had done for me. I went through a dealer with no problem 3 months later he was dead. Where is that gun now? Unless it was notarized that bill of sale is pretty much useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Only once has ATF called me about a gun. An Interarms Virginian Dragoon .44 mag, holster, belt, and 20 rounds of ammo were stolen from under the seat of my locked vehicle at work in East Helena 30+ years ago, and were recovered when a man & woman tried to sell them to a pawn shop in Denver a couple months later. I know who stole it, but couldn't prove it. Anyway, it was all recovered and sent back to the local PD, minus the ammo, who then charged me ten bucks or somesuch for postage before they would release it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 If your name shows up in more than one investigation and you have no receipts, they would have cause for more investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Only once, and its scary when wife says ATF agent want to talk to you. Seems I didn't complete a form on one of the FA I was taking out of state for filming. Cleared matter up quickly over the phone. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Ohio law says to just request for the buyer to show he's a resident of Ohio. If I was buying a gun at a gun show and they wanted my name and address on a bill of sale I would say NO WAY!!! I don't want to give my address/phone to someone I don't know at a gun show no less! I'll sign a cash receipt maybe but that's it. How am I protecting myself if I follow the law and it doesn't say anything about getting a receipt!?? I'm perplexed!~ It's known as CYA It's a 'must' when deal'n with guns---- I have a receipt for every gun I ever sold. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Following the law and protecting yourself are not always the same thing. I always do a bill of sale. It's an extra step that can be beneficial down the road. That's just my opinion. It's known as CYA It's a 'must' when deal'n with guns---- I have a receipt for every gun I ever sold. OLG Okay guys, do you always get an address or just name and phone number or just name? Like I said before I wouldn't give my address to some stranger at a gun show if I was buying a gun from him. Ohio law does NOT require you get a receipt. You just have to verify that it's an Ohio resident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I use the address of where the sale was made- I also have the buyer sign and date the receipt . OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I'll let Phantom chime in but I believe that the seller is responsible under Federal law to assure that he is not selling a firearm to a prohibited person. I want no parts of being charged for selling a firearm to a felon Even if your not criminally responsible it doesn't take much to face a civil action if someone is hurt with that gun that YOU provided to a felon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I never let a gun I sell leave my hand without going through a dealer and that gun coming out of my name. Several years ago I gave a gun to a friend in appreciation for a lot of work he had done for me. I went through a dealer with no problem 3 months later he was dead. Where is that gun now? Unless it was notarized that bill of sale is pretty much useless. I have to disagree about a non-notarized bill of sale being useless. In civil court possibly, but not in a criminal investigatuion. It could save you a lot of grief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Notarization is superfluous to a bill of sale, which is just a written record of a sale. Notarization is required on things that the law requires it on; that's it. It's not a magic imprimatur to anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I write up a bill of sale, make them sign it and verify signature with their license. If they balk at that -no sale. But not among friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Someone help me out here. I'm having trouble imagining a situation where a bill of sale (or receipt) will cover your hind end in any way. If someone commits a crime with a gun you once owned, it might make the cops look hard at you, but it won't be enough evidence for an arrest, much less a charge or conviction. It's not like its the norm for people to have receipts for everything they've ever sold. I can see where it might make it easier for cops trying to investigate a crime with a gun you once owned, but that's a different story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 and how are we to assure that someone is not a felon??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 and how are we to assure that someone is not a felon??? That's right, we can't call NICS and get a background check!! All that's required is that it is not an OUT OF TOWN sale! (In Ohio that is) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 That part about selling a gun to a felon only applies if you know the person is a convicted felon or other wise prohibited. You have no duty to research and can only go by what you are told. I've worked with the ATF on several large scale investigations where they purchased guns from gang members. The undercover agent always works the fact that they are a convicted felon and can't buy a gun at the gun store into the conversation. And as an individual, you don't have to keep any receipts for the guns you sell under federal law. Your state laws will vary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 That part about selling a gun to a felon only applies if you know the person is a convicted felon or other wise prohibited. You have no duty to research and can only go by what you are told. I've worked with the ATF on several large scale investigations where they purchased guns from gang members. The undercover agent always works the fact that they are a convicted felon and can't buy a gun at the gun store into the conversation. And as an individual, you don't have to keep any receipts for the guns you sell under federal law. Your state laws will vary. Unless you have a C&R License, best to keep records for ATF. Its required on any C&R especially. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I have to disagree about a non-notarized bill of sale being useless. In civil court possibly, but not in a criminal investigatuion. It could save you a lot of grief. I have to disagree about a non-notarized bill of sale being useless. In civil court possibly, but not in a criminal investigatuion. It could save you a lot of grief. Anyone can write and post date a bill of sale made out to any name in the phone book When I sell a gun and I don't sell many I want it out of my name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 Sort of, but not the ATF. My new bride got a call from the local sheriff about a gun that had been confiscated from a local teen. She was the last registered owner. We had sold it to a dealer at a gun show just a month or so previously. Gave the deputy the dealer's name and contact info and that was the last we heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Whiskers Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 I'm an FFL holder. I've gotten 2 calls from the ATF about handguns being taken off of a felon. Both times I gave them who I sold it to including the NICS go ahead number. Turns out both parties had sold the guns at gun shows. I log every sale, transfer and guns bought into my A&D book. Never heard from them after that, but one seller was the owner of a security service business that ended up closing shop shortly after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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