Tom Bullweed Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have been using W-231 light loads for a couple of original Winnies in .38-40. W-231 is unfindable (new word that applies to reloading supplies). I have Titegroup and RedDot. Which would you use and why? I have load data for both. I do shoot a lot of APP in these guns but need a smokeless load too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shady McLarry #62056L Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Red dot works really well in my 38-40's with a 160 or 180 grain bullet. It was really dirty in my 45's, but not in the 38 wcf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog McGee Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Tom, Try shooting real Black Powder. Easy to get , cheap, and cleans up with baby wipes ! I have a full set of 38-40's and I love the cartridge! It does real well in the 1873 rifle and I'm shooting OMV's. I shot clays in mine when I first started , but felt I was missing somthing ,,,, UNTIL I tried real BP ! A real thrill to shoot in the 38-40 ! Give it a try !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Tom, Try shooting real Black Powder. Easy to get , cheap, and cleans up with baby wipes ! Howdy Cheap? Hardly. Black Powder may cost less per pound than Smokeless, but after you dump 38 grains or so into the case it costs more than dumping in a few grains of Smokeless. I have never loaded 38-40 with Smokeless, but if I was going to I would probably use Unique. I have loaded a lot of 45 Colt and 44-40 with Unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 been have great results from trail boss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I have been using W-231 light loads for a couple of original Winnies in .38-40. W-231 is unfindable (new word that applies to reloading supplies). I have Titegroup and RedDot. Which would you use and why? I have load data for both. I do shoot a lot of APP in these guns but need a smokeless load too. Either would be fine, I use Tite_group for .44-40 pistols and rifle. Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted November 29, 2014 Author Share Posted November 29, 2014 I shot BP in two .38-40 rifles at the SE Regional a couple of weeks ago. Yep, very enjoyable. Sometime smokeless works better: wetter days or weekends when I know that guncleaning will not be a priority after the match. I got RedDot and Titegroup. Loaded fifty Titegroup loads last night to try at next weeks match (where I will also purge my BP loads). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Can you find any Unique powder? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Yeah, I have a few pounds from before it became so valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Silverfinger, SASS#3444 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 ......along with Unique, Alliant's American Select, and Green Dot will also work well. Their loading tables may be similar, but please DON'T substitute tables when loading......a nasty surprise may follow..................FWIW, Doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Can you find any Unique powder? OLG I saw several bottles at 2 different gun shops here in Middle TN. I have plenty so I didn't buy more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earl Brasse, SASS #3562 Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 I've tried Unique, but got lots of unburned powder. While it's not a problem in revolvers, in the '73 Win. I was getting dented cases from flakes that came back into the chamber upon cycling & firing. Currently trying some Hogdon Universal. It is clean burning. I've been shooting BP, but had some hard cast bullets & thought it might be good to practice? with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted November 29, 2014 Share Posted November 29, 2014 Between Titegroup and Red Dot, I'd probably go with Red Dot, mainly because of the light loads typical in this game. Although the two have similar burn rates, Red Dot is considerably bulkier than Titegroup. For instance, 4.0 grains of Red Dot is the same volume as 7.1 grains of Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bramble Mountain Buzzard Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Red Dot. (Or Promo which is budget Red Dot.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Look for HP-38. It's the same powder sold as WW 231. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted November 30, 2014 Author Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have not seen a canister of HP-38 in several years. I liked that Titegroup filled the case about 1/3 versus the RedDot that filled the case about 1/4. I like RedDot in my .45 Colt loads; I could not find load data for Titegroup for my 200-gr bullets. I do not shoot Trailboss since most dealers think that a canister is a pound. I have not found anything but RedDot and Titegroup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Payne 13115 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 American Select and 700X Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowtown Scout, SASS #53540 L Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Tom I tried to send you a PM, but get a message you can't receive it. Please check you box its most likely full. Scout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cusz M. Dutch SASS Life 55326 Posted November 30, 2014 Share Posted November 30, 2014 Pure rubbish - all this talk about red dot, 231, titegroup, unique etc. REPENT! for there is only one tried and true powder worthy of the 38/40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted December 1, 2014 Author Share Posted December 1, 2014 Brian Pierce and Mike Venturino published very nice loads in original Winnies with W-231 for the .38-40 and .32-20. They are my first choice in smoikeless. But these days we have to use what we can find. BP and APP are difficult to get right around muzzleloading season. I also need smokeless for days when I will not be cleaning my rifles right away. I have a small amount of Unique, but it flies off the shelves with the locally popular Bullseye matches. I did try Unique, Bullseye and Clays recently and had very dirty cases and chambers. I could find RedDot and Titegroup. I am saving my RedDot for .45 Colt loads and using Titegroup for .38-40 and .32-20 loads. Won't it be nice to return to normal loading practices when the powders, primers, cases and bullets return to availability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted December 1, 2014 Share Posted December 1, 2014 I ran app in them for bp rounds other than that I've used trail boss and had great results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col. Cornelius Gilliam, SASS#5875TG Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I use Black Powder for CAS matches (monthly and annuals). For practice and plinking - Red Dot. Red Dot has worked great for me in many pistol calibers - 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40, 45 acp (and 12 ga wild bunch shotgun loads). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlicLee SASS #16638 Life Posted December 9, 2014 Share Posted December 9, 2014 Once you try VV 320 you will never use any thing else in your pistols, I used TG first, was good but didnt meter well in my dillon,. Tried hp 38 too cold, dirty, Red Dot, Clays, Bulls Eye were great but looking into case wasnt much in there worked OK wwas too hot, back to TG , found one pound of VV320, was $3 more one pound fell in love, was 1996. Because of no reoil, I wanted a long range rif[le powder,I called VV and made a pain of myself, one fella there what caliber, barrel length, sight name distance front sight and rear, called me back what powder to use what load to start good luck. If you shoot long you know how you hurt if your as thin as me. Used Hodgson also switched to VV worked uo to same exact load as Hodg hit in same exact spot almost no recoil, Hodgdon was punch in the shoulder, VV was a shove. I dont work for them I use their powder, try it, its only a few bucks more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bullweed Posted December 10, 2014 Author Share Posted December 10, 2014 A minimum-listed load of Titegroup was very consistent and had some small groups. It was a good substitute for the W-231 that I normally use. Thanks for all of the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Pure rubbish - all this talk about red dot, 231, titegroup, unique etc. REPENT! for there is only one tried and true powder worthy of the 38/40. Yay-ess! There is only ONE true powder and it's name is Holy Black! Devil come OUT! But these days we have to use what we can find. BP and APP are difficult to get right around muzzleloading season. Au contraire, kind sir... http://www.blackpowderva.com/ It's ALWAYS available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 John Henry, I was a devoted BP shooter until now, I've gone back to smokeless as least partially, I kinda got sick of the expense, loading and cleaning. I shot smokeless for 10 years and have shot BP for the last 6. I figure I'll save about 15 bucks a shoot! Plus the time involved..priceless. PLUS, if I'm shooting from behind cover ya won't know where I'm at!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 John Henry, I was a devoted BP shooter until now, I've gone back to smokeless as least partially, I kinda got sick of the expense, loading and cleaning. I shot smokeless for 10 years and have shot BP for the last 6. I figure I'll save about 15 bucks a shoot! Plus the time involved..priceless. PLUS, if I'm shooting from behind cover ya won't know where I'm at!! I'm new to this newfangled BP cartridge stuff (I'm sure it's a passing fad), but I've been shooting artillery and muzzleloaders since 1970 and I love it. I had a lot of problems with .45 Colt and BP, but switching to .44-40 made it fun and easy to deal with. I did NOT like having to tear down the receiver after every shoot, but with my .44-40, I end the day with a clean receiver and cleanup isn't much different than smokeless. Also, going to a wet tumbler made brass cleaning a breeze. It's all been a fun learning curve for me. I guess this makes me a mental case... I just called Venskoske and made an appointment to pick up another case of GOEX when I'm in Winchester this coming Saturday. He's swapping out five cans with Cannon grade so I can make sure everyone on my road is awake on New Year's Eve! It IS more expensive, but in the end, ya gotta do what makes you happy and if smokeless makes you happy, then I wish you well with it. BTW, speaking of mental cases, I'm gearing to up do Steel Challenge with a Super Blackhawk with a black nylon holster, so I'm calling it my Tactical Single Action! I do plan to do it with smokeless because I don't think I can get through that much ammo without it binding up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I hear ya John, BP is a lot of fun. I go to 4 sometimes 5 shoots a month and throw in about 3 or 4 3 day shoots and I'll be saving quite a bit of cash and time! I'll still shoot BP now and then and that's why I love the .44-40 cartridge, it's more versatile than the other straight walled cases. Just MHO……. Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 I've been away from this forum for a while because of a serious health problem. I can't believe what I'm hearing from one of my old BP friends, Rye Miles. Rye please tell me that it is not true and that you were only posting a joke. As far as firing BP in any straight walled cases like the 45 Colt, there are problems with blowback. That may be worked with although it does require some extra work. If you anneal the case mouths and use a 20-1 alloy, that's a alloy of no more than a 10BHN, the barrel will seal. The original 45 Colt ammo had much better BP and softer cases. As far as stopping the blowback, the use of the 44WCF cartridge will bring it to an end. I also heard some old wife's tales about shooting REAL BP (NO SUBS). I first shot BP in 1970 and there is so much false information on the web that it is a shame and that probably has a lot to do with the amount of people who shoot it. I would shoot my matches, as many as three a month and I never CLEANED MY GUNS THE DAY OF THE SHOOT!!! I would not get around to cleaning until the following Monday sometime Tuesday with no bad results at all. I did that all the time and not just sometime. Now I will not tell you to do that with the subs unless you want a chunk of rust. Good BP does not have to be cleaned the day you shoot it, period!! They had some old brands that stated on the can, the firearm needs to be cleaned before your next firing. Not the dayg it was fired. I use KIK and the better grades of Goex with no problems. I will go to my grave as a BP shooter. I'll be the one with the grin. I believe it's all about having fun and doing it the old way. I don't care if someone is faster because he does not have to stop firing until the smoke clears. Later Fairshake They had some old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's twue, it's twue!!! I'll be shooting the smokeyless stuff more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 It's twue, it's twue!!! I'll be shooting the smokeyless stuff more often. Another passing fad, just like cartridges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Another passing fad, just like cartridges... Oh so you're one of them nipples and balls guys huh??? I tried that, didn't have much luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Oh so you're one of them nipples and balls guys huh??? I tried that, didn't have much luck! Flint! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 Flint! You mean James Coburn ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Henry Quick Posted December 10, 2014 Share Posted December 10, 2014 You mean James Coburn ?? NO! Flint, as in rocklocks! Though I gotta admit, Coburn was one of the really cool bada..es! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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