Pocket modification

[Tyrel Cody]

I believe this may have been asked but I can't find via search. Is it ok to sew elastic or canvas inside a vest or shirt pocket to hold shotshells in place and upright?

[Noah Cash]

No it isn't

Check Pg. 11 of the handbook, states no provisions for holding.....

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Yup. I believe this would constitute a device for organizing or retaining. Here's the rule

 

Bandoleers, cartridge belts, and pouches must be of traditional design (e.g., bandoleers must

be loose and not secured in any way to prevent movement). Modern drop pouches, combat style shotgun loops, wrist or forearm bandoleers, and such are not allowed. Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the contents for rapid retrieval. Leather belt slide ammo loops are acceptable; however, shotgun shell slides may not be worn over shotgun belts. Shotgun loops must be in a single row.

[Grizzly Dave]

 

 

Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the contents for rapid retrieval.

 

Don't see anything about pockets, but there might have been a clarification on that.

[Wyatt]

My guess would be because the pockets could/would be above the belly button the answer would be..............wait for it

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

NO!!!!

[Two Spurs]

Bandoleers are above the belly button.....

[Flying W Ramrod]

SASS SHB Page 11

"Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the

shooter’s person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be

safely staged as required by stage instructions."

 

SASS SHB Page 11

"Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the

contents for rapid retrieval."

 

Note the first part says Pocket.

Note the second part refers to Pouches

 

There are leather and canvas inserts being made to fit vest pockets that hold, in place, shotgun shells.

 

[Wyatt]

Interesting............thought about bandoleers, but they move around. Haven't seen the inserts yet

 

I gonna have to lurk to see how this one turns out

[Tyrel Cody]

SASS SHB Page 11

"Ammunition required for reloads during the course of any stage must be carried on the

shooters person in a bandoleer, cartridge/shotshell belt loop, pouch, holster, or pocket or be

safely staged as required by stage instructions."

 

SASS SHB Page 11

"Pouches shall have a flap and must carry their contents loose, with no special provisions to organize the

contents for rapid retrieval."

 

Note the first part says Pocket.

Note the second part refers to Pouches

 

There are leather and canvas inserts being made to fit vest pockets that hold, in place, shotgun shells.

 

Where could a person find these inserts?

[Anvil Al #59168]

I don't know. But if a betting man. Bet the ROC rules against it.

[Grizzly Dave]

How about this, a shotgun slide, cut down to fit snugly in a vest pocket (so the shells come out without bringing the slide with it) that is at or below belly button height?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

REF: SHB p.11:

There are regs pertaining to POUCHES.

There are regs pertaining to AMMO on BELTS.

 

There are no regulations or restrictions for ammo carried in POCKETS.

 

Verifying this with the ROC.

Please stand by.

[Cat Brules]

While the rules may not specifically say no to the idea of a modified pocket, I'd say that so modifying a pocket into (essentially) an ammo pouch MAKES it an ammo pouch. "Organizing" such a pouch, therefore.....well, you get the idea.

[Yul Lose]

I shoot with a pard that had made wooden shotgun shell holders for his vest pockets and it worked pretty good. A TG and match director told him that they weren't allowed because the shells had to be loose in the pockets and not attached somehow.

[Cat Brules]

I think most members bemoan the fact that we're having to pick the fly scat out of the pepper as regarding the "lawyers" amongst us word smithing the rulebook into a thousand page treatise on what should be common sense. :-) Fun, ain't it! :-)

[Sedalia Dave]

While the rules may not specifically say no to the idea of a modified pocket, I'd say that so modifying a pocket into (essentially) an ammo pouch MAKES it an ammo pouch. "Organizing" such a pouch, therefore.....well, you get the idea.

I agree. Next thing you know the gamers will be sewing pockets all over their shirts just for shotgun shells.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I agree. Next thing you know the gamers will be sewing pockets all over their shirts just for shotgun shells.

 

Right...because digging SG ammo out of pockets is the most efficient/competitive method for loading during a stage.

 

[Grizzly Dave]

The sky is falling!

 

No, it's winter time, that's snow.

[Blastmaster]

Pocket | Define Pocket at Dictionary.com

dictionary.reference.com/browse/pocket

‎

• Cached
• Similar

a shaped piece of fabric attached inside or outside a garment and forming a
pouch used especially for carrying small articles. 2. a bag or pouch. 3. means ...

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

yea, that's real gamey,,, oops yuzed the ones in that pocket, dangit that one too,, ohh here they are,,,, yea, real gamey!

[Most Wanted]

While the rules may not specifically say no to the idea of a modified pocket, I'd say that so modifying a pocket into (essentially) an ammo pouch MAKES it an ammo pouch. "Organizing" such a pouch, therefore.....well, you get the idea.

Ok so if I put my gloves in my pocket I now have a Glove Box in my pants .

If I put my keys in my pocket now its a Key Chain .

If I put money in my pocket now it's a safe .

You get the idea . Its a pocket Not an ammo pouch .

It bothers me as much when people Add Words to a rule that aren't there as when they don't read the Whole Rule and apply it correctly . Go with what is written until the ROC says otherwise .

[Anvil Al #59168]

yea, that's real gamey,,, oops yuzed the ones in that pocket, dangit that one too,, ohh here they are,,,, yea, real gamey!

 

 

Well. If in a shirt pocket. And those things sewed in. It could stick up higher than the edge of the shirt pocket.

And a booby high. That makes it real close to the SG and not far to go to get them.

 

 

 

personally. I don't see it as an advantage.

But still hope the ROC says no.

Kind of taking things to far when you are sewing in a SG belt inside your pocket.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

I know it's not an official rule (at least I don't believe so), but at our club we use the "spirit of the game" method for stuff like this. I think the answer in this case is rather obvious

[Hurricane Deck 100366]

Ok so if I put my gloves in my pocket I now have a Glove Box in my pants .

If I put my keys in my pocket now its a Key Chain .

If I put money in my pocket now it's a safe .

You get the idea . Its a pocket Not an ammo pouch .

It bothers me as much when people Add Words to a rule that aren't there as when they don't read the Whole Rule and apply it correctly . Go with what is written until the ROC says otherwise .

 

This answer is an excellent example of the why our tax codes and federal laws have to be so so dad-burned long and hard to follow that the common man now requires an attorneys consult to so much as take a poop in his own outhouse. Someone just HAS to hump through a loophole in the law/rule.

[Grizzly Dave]

Wow guys, lighten up.

 

Without the testing of limits, there is no innovation.

 

I've chatted with Tyrel on this question outside of this board, he asked because he doesn't like wearing a shotgun belt, and slides have not worked well for him. He isn't seeking a competitive advantage nor is he preaching that because it isn't specifically allowed that it is. He simply asked a question.

 

Discussing the question on it's merits, specifics, perceived or implied merits or disadvantages is one thing, implying that anyone wondering about it is violating the spirit of the game or cheating is out of line.

 

Now to the actual question, have you ever tried to get something out of one of those little vest pockets? I have, it ain't easy, the vest is moving around some, my fingers are fat, etc. Even with some method of holding the shells upright with the heads exposed, at best, it will be like grabbing them from a slide or shotgun belt, certainly no better.

 

Some have made the point that a shirt pocket with such a functionality would put the shells much closer to the shotgun to load them, that is true, but so does a bandolier. Granted a bandoleer may not be secured down in any way, and a tight fitting tucked in shirt isn't going to move much.

 

In my opinion, something of the sort in lower pockets of a vest would give no possible competitive advantage there for should be allowed. Shirt pockets, not so much for the reasons above.

[Cheyenne Culpepper 32827]

good grief, a newer shoot asks a question and he gits vilified!!!

 

ya kan't let what Pale Wolf sez hold you off with the rope until he gits back to us,,,, and from experience it may take a while to get a consensus from the ROC!!

 

Spirit of the Game??? show that to me how it would apply, IN THE BOOK, any one of them!!!!!!

[Most Wanted]

 

This answer is an excellent example of the why our tax codes and federal laws have to be so so dad-burned long and hard to follow that the common man now requires an attorneys consult to so much as take a poop in his own outhouse. Someone just HAS to hump through a loophole in the law/rule.

If you read post # 12 you may see that you do need help with the Written Rule . That is the only post so far that carries any weight . The rest of us are just giving an opinion . Now if the ROC wants to ADD an interpretation to the rule then that's fine and I'll call it that way . As it has been pointed out NO ONE is going to get an advantage doing this . So live and let shoot .

[Two Spurs]

 

Right...because digging SG ammo out of pockets is the most efficient/competitive method for loading during a stage.

 

 

THAT was funny....

[Cypress Sun]

Humorous actually. Who knows...........may be the best thing since action jobs.

[Tyrel Cody]

Thanks Grizz and CC.

 

Wow, I ask simple question and all of a sudden I'm a gamer/cheater. I really don't appreciate those comments and I'm not going to say what I want lest I get banned from here. Next time I'll just send a PM to Mr. PWB.

 

For the record I have already shot matches pulling shot shells out of my unmodified vest pockets. Both of the vests I own have pockets that will hold 4 shot shells. The pockets are shallow enough that the shells do stick out a bit. The problem is when you grab 2 the remaining 2 tend to fall over. I am not trying to bend the rules, I just want to know if I can put something in there to keep the shells upright. If I can't then fine, I'll still use the vest pocket which IS legal; I'll just grab 4 at a time. If anything I am hurting myself.

[Texita Draw SASS#77940]

 

I don't know. But if a betting man. Bet the ROC rules against it.[/quot

 

 

Al..... That's a pretty safe bet no matter what the question

😀

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

I don't know. But if a betting man. Bet the ROC rules against it.[/quot

 

 

Al..... That's a pretty safe bet no matter what the question

😀

 

If that's true, then why am I wasting time polling the ROC members on this?

 

Care to place a wager on the outcome?

 

[Blackwater 53393]

Like Grizz said, ol' Tyrel is a fairly new shooter and was only asking a question. If you ask first it ain't bein' gamey! It's much better to ask than to assume in either direction. Just because nobody's brought it up before and ya' can't find it on the wire or in the handbook don't mean you're trying to cheat!!

 

Why don't we wait 'til PWB gives us a definite answer, AND THEN ACCEPT THE ANSWER HE GIVES US!!!

 

If I was PWB, there are times and folks here that I'd tell which part on my anatomy to osculate!!! I swear!! I don't know how he puts up with some of this!!!

[Anvil Al #59168]

 

If that's true, then why am I wasting time polling the ROC members on this?

 

Care to place a wager on the outcome?

 

 

 

 

NO WAY.

[Anvil Al #59168]

good grief, a newer shoot asks a question and he gits vilified!!!

 

ya kan't let what Pale Wolf sez hold you off with the rope until he gits back to us,,,, and from experience it may take a while to get a consensus from the ROC!!

 

Spirit of the Game??? show that to me how it would apply, IN THE BOOK, any one of them!!!!!!

 

 

I don't see where he got vilified.

Was discussion about it.

But don't think anyone is vilifying anyone.

If they do. There skin is pretty thin.

Things on here are up for open discussion.