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Grumbling about an old "issue"


Phantom, SASS #54973

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End all the "age based" catagories like "senior", "elder statesman", etc....

 

Replace them with

Crotchety

adjective

 

  1. irritable.
    "he was tired and crotchety"

 

and

 

Decrepit

adjective
  1. (of a person) elderly and infirm.
    "a decrepit old drunk"
    synonyms: feeble, infirm, weak, weakly, frail; More
    • worn out or ruined because of age or neglect.
      "centuries-old buildings, now decrepit and black with soot"

 

There are no age requirements for the two new categories.

 

You can place yourself in these categories if you feel as such.

 

Think of the fun at awards ceremonies:

 

"Crochety Gun Fighter"

"Decrepit Duelist"

etc....

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I think it is best handled on the match level, no category changes after signing up without verifiable medical reasons.

That could work, maybe ;) ......................or better yet, anyone jumping category after signing up will be put in a special category with each other :huh: This new category will be called "Claim Jumper" :oAny shooting sytle, any age, any gun, any powder :D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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That could work, maybe ;) ......................or better yet, anyone jumping category after signing up will be put in a special category with each other :huh: This new category will be called "Claim Jumper" :oAny shooting sytle, any age, any gun, any powder :D

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

 

That thought crossed my mind as well, but I was having trouble putting into words :D

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I'm so glad that I'm new and not very good. I couldn't care less who shoots where. That's above my pay grade. As long as we all have fun, that's all that matters to me. Right now I consider it a success shooting gunfighter if I can come away with a clean stage. If I ever shoot a clean match, I'll be ecstatic.

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I'm so glad that I'm new and not very good. I couldn't care less who shoots where. That's above my pay grade. As long as we all have fun, that's all that matters to me. Right now I consider it a success shooting gunfighter if I can come away with a clean stage. If I ever shoot a clean match, I'll be ecstatic.

Clean and clean match

is mostly mental discipline

once you know the point of aim for your equipment

Have good equipment

Have consistent ammo

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A younger person can give up 2seconds of shooting speed and make it back up with foot speed.

 

A younger person that has the foot speed AND the shooting speed AND has that all or nothing attitude.... is a contender for a championship.

 

Nothing wrong with any of that.

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4 year ago when I went from 49er to Senior it was out of the frying pan into the fire. Never considered staying in 49er that just would not be right. It would have meant a word higher than 4th place on my certificate at our annual last week but it would not have been right. Moving down is just not right for anyone anytime to my way of thinkin'.

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4 year ago when I went from 49er to Senior it was out of the frying pan into the fire. Never considered staying in 49er that just would not be right. It would have meant a word higher than 4th place on my certificate at our annual last week but it would not have been right. Moving down is just not right for anyone anytime to my way of thinkin'.

Age based categories, in darn near everything, are used to protect the older participants. Shooting with the younger shooters is like Mark Spitz swimming against Michael Phelps. How is that not "right"?

 

Fillmore

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Age based categories, in darn near everything, are used to protect the older participants. Shooting with the younger shooters is like Mark Spitz swimming against Michael Phelps. How is that not "right"?

 

Fillmore

 

Depends on who hits the bong first.

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Clean and clean match

is mostly mental discipline

once you know the point of aim for your equipment

Have good equipment

Have consistent ammo

Thanks for the advice. I thought I was prepared, as I had all of the above and practiced shooting my pistols like crazy. Then at our annual, I hadn't anticipated exactly how much of a toll running, carrying stuff like money bags, and shooting 12+ shotgun shells each stage and then trying to hold a pistol in each hand and still shoot clean. From now on, I'm doing a string if pull ups and push ups before I start shooting practice. I guess these are the things you learn with experience. And that's one of the reasons that, despite being younger, faster, and stronger than everyone on my posse, I still get my rear handed to me each match haha.
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I'm 66 and refuse to shoot in aged based categories, of course I shoot FCD and there isn't an aged based category for that…..yet…. :P

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Thanks for the advice. I thought I was prepared, as I had all of the above and practiced shooting my pistols like crazy. Then at our annual, I hadn't anticipated exactly how much of a toll running, carrying stuff like money bags, and shooting 12+ shotgun shells each stage and then trying to hold a pistol in each hand and still shoot clean. From now on, I'm doing a string if pull ups and push ups before I start shooting practice. I guess these are the things you learn with experience. And that's one of the reasons that, despite being younger, faster, and stronger than everyone on my posse, I still get my rear handed to me each match haha.

You missed my point

Being winded due to what ever is still what ever

Missing targets is mental because

You pull the trigger before all of the proper steps have Ben achieved (mental check list, Aline sites with proper target then apply proper trigger pull)

Shooting clean at first takes a long time

Please do not confuse shooting clean with

Shooting clean and winning the match over all

Even though overall and clean is still a important goal

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If I dressed like Jeremiah Johnson , is any scene

no matter my age

Should I be forced into a age bracket?

I believe he aged in the movie

 

Real question folks

Sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

Save AM some heartache

 

If you have not scene the movie, then perhaps may I recommend it

Disclaimer, it ain't full of green screen filmed computer added excitement

It portrays real life growth after learning the hard way

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Out of this whole topic, the part that don’t like the most is being called an

“old fossil”.

Thanks for making a very important point

Should you be mandated to be an "old fossil"

 

True fact

Yes or no

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This is a skill based activity (not a sport). Athletic ability is essentially not required. That being the case age should have nothing to do with it. Demonstrated ability should dictate who your competition is. There should be three classes: greenhorn (novice), cowboy (intermediate), marshall (expert). You shoot in the greenhorn class until you start to place regularly then you move up to the cowboy class. Once you start to place regularly against other cowboys you move up to the marshall class. After a while it will become apparent what class you should be shooting in and sandbagging will be frowned upon.

 

You can still keep all the other categories. So, for example, if you are a brand new shooter that wants to shoot BP you would compete in the greenhorn BP competition against other greenhorn BP shooters. Whatever skill level (class) you are stays with you until you progress to the next level (greenhorn, cowboy, marshall). You can change your category any time you want. If you are a cowboy class (skill level) shooter and decide to give BP a try you would compete against other cowboy class BP shooters. Your class (skill level) stays with you. Your category (BP, gunfighter, BP gunfighter) can change all the time. Shoot what/how you want but compete against similarly classed shooters.

 

I'd also make it gender nuetral. Skill is skill. A greenhorn is a greenhorn.

 

Stan, I agree that at some point age might matter. An aging cowboy level shooter may deteriorate back to being a greenhorn level shooter at some point.

 

Just thinking out loud.......

Question, and not trying to pick apart your idea.

"Locally", I am a pretty fair shooter. At any Southern Nevada monthly shoot, I am a realistic threat for the overall, by your scale, I would be a Marshal. In other places, I may get beaten like a red headed stepchild. So there, I'm a greenhorn? And when I go to Winter Range or EOT, how do I know how to classify myself?

Other disciplines implement qualifiers by exacting measurements via set target sizes, distances,courses of fire. I don't think a win/ loss system based on the local competition could ever satisfy your needs.

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Lets make all this reallllly simple.

 

pay your match fee money. No category or gender needed.

 

Shooter shoots the stages. Each stage time per shooter is recorded and Rank points calc.

 

 

At the end of the match, the stage times and rank points for each stage is posted. Low to high, or high to low.

 

Shooters figures out who they want to compete against, or not (using time or rank or both), and then on the way home, they can play the game of ' I could've,should've,would've' OR,,,, I sure did kick that pards behind.

 

For $5 more, a FYI only second page to the score sheet could list what each shooter was shooting,,,, one-hand, two-hand, gunfighter. Thats it.

 

 

I would go for that.. But as before, nothing will change.

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Everybody grab a bat because this horse ain't dead.

 

I've shot Cowboy ever since I started two years ago. I just turned 36 5 months ago so I could move up but there is only one other person in Cowboy and we like to compete against each other. Now I don't agree with a person moving way down in age categories, maybe move one down and let that be it. Heck, I can't move down to Buckaroo and the only options for Cowboy is to move into a different shooting category. I will move to Gunfighter next month just for a change in scenery.

 

As far as big matches go, whatever you sign up for then that is what you are going to shoot unless you bring a doctors note stating a reason as to why you can't. If you signed up for GF but show up with your hand in a cast then we know you can't conceivably shoot that category.

 

We aren't guaranteed another day here so why can't I shoot Elder statesman? I may never get the opportunity.

 

What it all boils down to is I don't really care who shoots what. If you feel like that you NEED to drop down and beat people that have only been shooting a few months because that $20 buckle will make your life complete. Then go ahead and have at it!

 

Now for those of y'all still wondering where that horse is at.....

 

Rank points

 

I hate them and that's what should really be discussed but it seems like anytime anyone brings it up then it is taboo. We all shoot the same stages!

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Age based categories, in darn near everything, are used to protect the older participants. Shooting with the younger shooters is like Mark Spitz swimming against Michael Phelps. How is that not "right"?

 

Fillmore

 

 

I said "to my way of thinging" or in other words MNSHO. YMMV. No one would ever allow the hot shoe Seniors or 49ers to shoot Buckaroo. Same diff. They should not be allowed to drop down and whup up on any greenhorn Cowboys or Wranglers. It just is not right. Shameful even.

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Where am I wrong

Since my sass #8595, as I do know what happened before that

Sass had had a way to score a no category no sex gender match

It's called total scoring or something like that

Where am I wrong

Sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

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Where am I wrong

Since my sass #8595, as I do know what happened before that

Sass had had a way to score a no category no sex gender match

It's called total scoring or something like that

Where am I wrong

Sassmaddmike@yahoo.com

Same as before, it was called "overall".

 

According to my records (SASS HQ may have some additional info), '82 & '83 only had a Men's and Ladies' Champion. In '84 they segregated "Modern" & "Traditional", even tho; I don't know who won it, just that a "Modern" winner is listed. But, for what it's worth, a "Traditional" shooter didn't win EOT until 1988! '86 shows the first "Black Powder" (almost equivalent to today's "Frontiersman" except allowed squaw grippin'), '87 lists the first "International" Champion. 1990 saw the change from "BP" to "Frontier Cartridge".

 

However, I know my records are not complete, Just the result of a couple or 5 "ol' Fossils" ruminatin' on the old days...

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Same as before, it was called "overall".

 

According to my records (SASS HQ may have some additional info), '82 & '83 only had a Men's and Ladies' Champion. In '84 they segregated "Modern" & "Traditional", even tho; I don't know who won it, just that a "Modern" winner is listed. But, for what it's worth, a "Traditional" shooter didn't win EOT until 1988! '86 shows the first "Black Powder" (almost equivalent to today's "Frontiersman" except allowed squaw grippin'), '87 lists the first "International" Champion. 1990 saw the change from "BP" to "Frontier Cartridge".

 

However, I know my records are not complete, Just the result of a couple or 5 "ol' Fossils" ruminatin' on the old days...

Ok, but just so I understand

Are you telling me that there were years when overall scores were never posted for shooters to look at?

Regardless of shooting styles / types that were available at those matches, just plain overall placings

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

Stan,

 

Back when some youngster started winning EOT the oldsters wanted additional categories cuz they were never gonna beat that kid. And so on and so on...

 

Blastmaster,

 

You gave a recipe for a 80 PF and a 60 PF and a bunch of shooters don't shoot 45's because they are not the same. I have been starting to think that one should print 10 SASS rule books and then see if a given load can penetrate all of the pages in order to be legal. At least that way a 240 pound fella could at least shoot those loads against the kids?

 

Now to your point of cherry picking, I know folks who look for categories with no other shooters or 1 or 2 so they get an award. Not so much like an experienced shooter whooping a newbie. If there were no aged base categories then I wouldn't have a problem with an oldster beating a youngster but since there are, folks oughta shoot their age?

 

This isn't to say that the skill set in a given age group might make for a spanking on a new older shooter but sometimes ya spend your money and ya takes your chances. Sounds simple right? Problem is I never wanna shoot my age!!

 

Good Shooting

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We have a 70+ yr old guy who shoots Wrangler and holds his own quite well. Don't look or act his age, and why would you deny him the win if he can make the grade? The age categories were not created so the young, agile, and fleet of foot did not have to compete against the older generations, but the other way around.

 

CR

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I guess some of you Pards will either have to forgive me or just consider me a worm.

 

2011 at age 60, I shot and won top GF at the TN State.

2012 at age 61, I shot and won top Senior GF at the TN State, and actually finished higher than all other GFer's. (Rank scoring)

2013: didn't shoot TN State

 

2014 at age 63: This year, I could tell my game had improved alittle. I didn't really look over WHO was coming although I had seen some TOP names on the GF and SGF list. I signed up for GF and stuck with my decision.

Before it was over, there were 16 GF and 10 or more SGF who shot the TN State this past weekend.

 

I expected a good close match and it was a real 'Katie Bar The Doors' competition with:

Sgt. ELI, Lets Go, Hikes Point Hank, Koda Joe, Cassalong Hopidy, Kid Ziggy, Wes Outlaw, Badlands Bob, BLUFF, Slippery Stew, Bo Dacious, Birdshop Pete, Brada Tat Tat, Bushy Cap AND....one of my heros, Judge'm ALL Duncan. and quite a few others.

 

I finished well among some of these great shooters and actually my conscience is clear for 'stepping down' to shoot with the GFer's.

 

I had fun and it was competitive, as it should be. I surely hope my good GF Pards had fun also.

 

 

..........Widder

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Musta been a reason for dropping down an age bracket. And it was?

 

Cherry picking is a form of bullying.

 

If no one is being bullied or hurt, then it ain't cherry picking.

 

 

For example:

 

If Matt Black was the only person in his catagory and someone decided to jump down to 'that' catagory, I would have to say no one (Matt Black) was being hurt. :) Now if there was a obvious, much less skilled second shooter in Matt's catagory that could not qualify for anything else, then someone was being bullied.

 

edit: oh yes, as usual, nothing will happen.

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