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Senior Duelest Rumors


Rootin Tootin

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Sometimes people throw something against the wall to see if it sticks. Maybe this is the case here but I just want to check in with all you pards, that communicate regularly.

 

I heard that there is a movement to change senior duelist category and NOT permit Blackhawks. Is this true, and if so what about the folks that already shoot this category with Blackhawks?

 

Regards...........RT

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I think it should go the other way.

 

Allow them in Duelist and GFer and be done with it

 

Heeee Haaaa +1

 

Heeee Haaaaa Crazy Mingo :wacko::wacko::FlagAm:

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Hi RT,

 

Yes, there is talk...At the last TG Summit, a straw poll (non-binding) was taken and most folks preferred to have age-based shooting-style, propellant... categories like; Senior GF, Duelist, CC, FC..., follow the shooting-style category requirements, which would eliminate adjustable sight revolvers.

 

As most of these, except for Senior Duelist, are unofficial categories, it is up to your local Match Director to say what goes. However, I think it could end up as a requirement for state-and-above matches.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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The same poll was taken at EOT and there was strong support for changing Senior Duelist to follow the category style and not the age requirement first. That would take a TG Vote since it is already an established category. The feeling was that ALL age based shooting style categories (Duelist, Gunfighter, B-Western, etc.) should follow the shooting style rules. I expect the change to Senior Duelist to be on the TG agenda at the Convention in TX.

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As much as I think it is stupid for them not to be allowed in regular Duelist and GFer

category's.

 

If they are not going to be.

Then I think it makes since that SR Duelist and SR GFer would fall

under regular Duelist and GFer rules.

Always thought they should have anyway.

 

So I would vote yes to that.

 

But still think the vote should be to allow them in Duelist and GFer.

I know I know. It was voted on and lost.

Not cowboy looking enough for some. (as they grab there 97 and walk to the line :blink: )

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How many folks now use adjustable sights in SD? I shoot SD and think I have only seen one SD shooter with them.

Seems like it's a bit late to NOW close that barn door-- :unsure:

At my age-I can 'barley' see the sights anyhoo-- :D

LG

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PS If you want to shoot adjustable-sight revolvers duelist-style in any age-based category you can now do that and there is no change planned.

Allie, to me that sounds contradictory to me, I consider Senior Duelist an age based category, since I can only shoot it after I turned 60? I have a set of Blackhawks I had planned to have short-stroked for Senior Duelist but now I hate spend the money and then not be able to use them.

 

Thanks

Randy

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Hi Randy,

 

Maybe it is.

 

However, you can shoot duelist-style, using any SASS-legal pistol, in any age-based category, like Cowboy, Wrangler... If this passes, you will not be able to shoot a Style and Age -based category, like Senior Duelist with adjustable sights. I hope that makes sense.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

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Pistols have "sights"?

 

I'm going over to my safe to check mine out...

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Age-based Categories.

There was a breach of trust when Modern and Traditional were abandoned for age-based categories accommodating the “two handed” smokeless competitors. The “promise” was to vigorously pursue aged-based categories for the entire suite of specialty shooting disciplines within SASS. This promise has been broken. What’s good for the two-handed smokeless folks is good for the rest of our shooting community (Duelist, Gunfighter, Frontiersman, Frontier Cartridge, etc.). We’re all getting older, and we all want to shoot against our peers. Aged-based categories for all the specialty categories should be recognized … and for those wanting these categories, ask for them every time you register for any match … whether the category is offered or not.

 

Age based categories are not universally understood. … somewhere along the way, there was a misguided Territorial Governor vote that allowed Senior Duelist to do deviant things … and that’s unfortunate. The intent was never to allow old folks to do whatever they wanted … rather it was to provide protected categories for old Duelist, old Gunfighters, etc. The “rules” for the specialty categories govern in all cases. The aged-based additions simply provide protected categories for the older practitioners of these categories. Remember, only a Gunfighter may have two loaded revolvers out of their holsters at the same time. If there is a Senior Gunfighter Category offered, the shooter MUST be a Gunfighter and be over 60 years old. It is never permissible for a senior shooting the Senior Category to “decide” to shoot the next stage “gunfighter-style.”

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Hi Randy,

 

Maybe it is.

 

However, you can shoot duelist-style, using any SASS-legal pistol, in any age-based category, like Cowboy, Wrangler... If this passes, you will not be able to shoot a Style and Age -based category, like Senior Duelist with adjustable sights. I hope that makes sense.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

Allie, I understand what you are saying I just don't understand how Senior is an age based category but Senior Duelist is not?

 

Thanks for all you do.

Randy

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The Senior Duelist category requires the shooter of 60+ age to shoot all stages as a duelist using any SASS approver revolver, as I understand it. I have never seen a senior switch back and forth between two handed senior , and senior duelist weather with a fixed site or adjustable site revolver. I have no reference or experience for senior gunfighter, but would assume that all stages must be shot gunfighter style with any SASS approved revolver.

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It has been my understanding that when you hang a title to any style shooting, (Jr., Sr., or any age based prefix), that the age base took precedence. So in the case of Senior Duelist, the Senior took precedence, making it actually an age based category. That has been my understanding all along.

 

As an aside, I'll bet many of those Senior Duelists don't have pistols other that their Blackhawks. Sounds like just another great way to piss off a bunch of members.

 

RBK

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You know (big sigh) this nonsense about adjustable versus fixed sights needs to stop. Period. I simply don't see one being better than the other. I've shot both, missed as much with both.

 

BINGO!!!!!!!!

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The following is an excerpt from the EoT 2014 TG meeting minutes relevant to the OP:

 

...

Discussion regarding AGE-BASED breakdown of the "specialty" (i.e. shooting style & costume) categories.

 

Suggested that the regulations for the base category be applied first...THEN the age limits.

 

Reasons to do so: "any legal revolver" is the criteria for the basic AGE-based categories...which doesn't apply for FRONTIERSMAN (requires percussion ignition); CLASSIC (which has a caliber restriction), and GF (which requires FIXED sights)...as does DUELIST...Senior Duelist being the only anomaly specifically listed as such.

Instituting this as a standard for "non-official" categories when breaking down by age (e.g. Senior GF would be a Gunfighter 60+ years old) and changing Senior Duelist to comply with that standard will be a SUMMIT DISCUSSION ITEM & possible agenda item if the TGs can get past the verbiage issues.

Shooting STYLE = #1 determinant

Shooter's AGE = #2 consideration

 

Poll suggested to spot check how many Senior/Silver Senior Duelists this might effect.

(i.e. how many are currently using adjustable-sighted revolvers)

 

Discussion regarding allowing GF shooting style in ALL Age-Based cats.

"unintended consequences" were noted regarding the DISallowance of X-draw, Huckleberry, shoulder and other "butt-forward" carry as happened with BW once the allowance was given to use GF-style in that category.

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Contact your club TG to let HIM/HER know your thoughts and feelings on this subject, as this issue most likely WILL be on the agenda for the next Summit meeting for a vote.

 

 

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MEthinks some people just naturally pick out things to bitch about. It's in their nature.

 

Blackhawks should be legal everywhere except in Cap Gun categories. Many, Many, shooters use them, and for many, it's the only gun they own. Why deprive them of their use in a category just because someone thinks they don't look right. Sounds like grade A Bull S*** to me.

 

RBK

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For the most part, the most popular guns used in SASS are so far removed from what was used in the old west, they only resemble them in profile anyway. Then compound the situation with heavy modifications and your really getting away from the guns used on the frontier. Even cap guns have had mods to make them more reliabe and easier to shoot.

 

I've only seen mentioned Blackhawks but I assume the Colt New Frontier and other single actions with adjustable sights would also fall under the same restrictions.

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So, Blackhawks don't "look right". Just exactly who are the fashion police? It seems to me that CAS has wandered far, far away from being period correct. There are hundreds of pictures of real cowboys from the later half of the 19th Century. Guess what? No suspenders; many have no holster for their revolver; their knife is stuck through their belt, no sheath. Smokeless powder did not exist for most of that time. Most of them look like they have never had a good meal. Most of them really were boys.

 

So, "look right" is a matter of opinion. Do we want to be period correct or engage in a fantasy game. If we do want to be period correct then CAS has a long way to go to get there and should start immediately to make it so. If this is a fantasy game then everyone's fantasy is different so leave well enough alone.

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It has been my understanding that when you hang a title to any style shooting, (Jr., Sr., or any age based prefix), that the age base took precedence. So in the case of Senior Duelist, the Senior took precedence, making it actually an age based category. That has been my understanding all along.

 

As an aside, I'll bet many of those Senior Duelists don't have pistols other that their Blackhawks..

 

RBK

I only have .44 OMVs and I shoot SD- The SD's I shoot with don't have adjustable sights either, IIRC.

All this silliness does is to push folks AWAY from try'n SASS. When we need to lighten up a good bit, so we can bring folks into this game--

LG

LG

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Whatever is voted on or isn't voted on now, can and will be modified by the leadership of SASS. As proven with the action open/closed vote of the TG's.

Let them tell us what the end result will be so we don't waste our time!

Ike

X2 :excl:

LG

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Let me be clear...my pistols are OM Vaqueros with fixed sights and I shoot Senior Duelist. So whatever the decision on whether to prohibit adjustable sights in Sr. D does not affect me whatsoever. Having said that, I think outlawing "adjustable sight" pistols, especially because they "don't look right" is the height of ridiculousness! I have thought so back when we had Modern and Traditional classes. Or is somebody afraid that the possibility that the adjustables provide a better sight picture for those of us who can barely see the sights at all?! I agree...why chase away some shooter who happens to have pistols with adjustable sights just for the sake of "looks"?

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Everyone should be shooting black powder no matter what category you choose.

 

 

OUTLAW SMOKELESS POWDER!!! :P :P

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