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Synopsis of FINAL EDITS to the SHB & RO1


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I didn't post the entire backstory/process on this issue for a number of reasons.

The relevant CHANGES have been posted...some of those are edits to the post-Summit revisions...others are reiterations (slightly revised) of PRE-Summit rules.

The current versions of the SHB & RO1 (as of Friday PM) are based on parameters allowed by the WB.

 

However any individual reads (or MISreads) the rules, please don't try to "interpret" them based on ANY of the previous POST-Summit clarifications that have been posted here...

EXCEPT for the thread started by Misty (CEO of the WB) stating their position re: NOT ALLOWING the closing of a long gun ON PURPOSE without penalty.

There were also certain phrases/terminology that were NOT going to be edited out...some of which (e.g. "discarded") had actually been in use for quite some time before this issue ever came up.

 

The MSV list is back to the pre-Summit version with no change.

The addition of "or closes" to the section referring to mandatory use of provided stage props injects the concept of "some forgiveness" for a long gun "accidentally" closing after being "opened & emptied at the end of the shooting string".

 

Again, if read with no preconceptions based on previous clarifications and/or interpretations, it MAY be a bit clearer...or not...

 

~ fini ~

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PW,

They ain't paying you enuff!

 

Please allow me to extend my sincere thanks for all you've been doing, been through, and put up with, to keep us wheezing along.

 

Doc McC

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The only way to avoid this "accidental closing" is to use factory out of the box weapons, they have "hard" enough mechanisms not to be closed by any accidental action when discarded!

It'll be the end of the prepared guns, may be it's the purpose of this new new new rule.... to return to the CAS Fundamentals used decades ago when SASS was only a few hundred or thousand of shooters with no gammeers!

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The only way to avoid this "accidental closing" is to use factory out of the box weapons, they have "hard" enough mechanisms not to be closed by any accidental action when discarded!

 

It'll be the end of the prepared guns, may be it's the purpose of this new new new rule.... to return to the CAS Fundamentals used decades ago when SASS was only a few hundred or thousand of shooters with no gammeers!

Silliness

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PLEASE read this without any preconceptions regarding what you THINK it SHOULD say based on previous POST-Summit clarifications

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Ok,

 

There is a question at the conclusion of the stage as to the condition of the lever rifle.

 

1. No one but shooter handles the rifle while under direct observation of the TO/RO.

2. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & proved empty = No Call.

3. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & spent case in action = (1) MSV

4. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round on carrier = (1) MSV

5. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round in chamber = SDQ

6. Rifle is declared closed and proved empty = No Call.

7. Rifle is declared closed but spent case in action = (2) MSV

8. Rifle is declared closed but live round chambered = SDQ

 

Am I close in understanding the new revised regulations?

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Ok,

 

There is a question at the conclusion of the stage as to the condition of the lever rifle.

 

5. Rifle is declared closed and proved empty = No Call.

 

Am I close in understanding the new revised regulations?

Regarding #5. Only if prop failure was declared. If closed and empty, it's going to be a MSV.

Regards,

Ringer

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#6 depends on WHY/HOW the rifle closed.

it will usually be an MSV as an "accidental" closing due to "prop failure" is a "rare occurrence".

 

 

REF: RO1 "PENALTY OVERVIEW" - MSVs (quoted in synopsis)

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Ok,

 

There is a question at the conclusion of the stage as to the condition of the lever rifle.

 

1. No one but shooter handles the rifle while under direct observation of the TO/RO.

2. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & proved empty = No Call.

3. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & spent case in action = (1) MSV

4. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round on carrier = (1) MSV

5. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round in chamber = SDQ

6. Rifle is declared closed and proved empty = No Call.

7. Rifle is declared closed but spent case in action = (2) MSV

8. Rifle is declared closed but live round chambered = SDQ

 

Am I close in understanding the new revised regulations?

Fixed errors in numbering & SDQ.

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Did you get upset when the WB reversed the TGs decision to keep the MSV for overloading the rifle? Or was that ok because you agreed with it.

 

Could this situation been handled differently sure but the end result would have been the same.

 

Stan

Before my time, and your not upset because you did not like the rule change to begin with, so whats your point? Tell me exactly how many people have been hurt since the rule change NONE, the rule worked because 99.9 still open their rifle before going on to the next weapon, I still do it because it's a learned habit, The end result is why be a TG and represent your club only to be overuled, if this rule change didn't sit right they should have not let it come to vote?

I will play the game with in the rules but the timing is pretty crappy right before EOT.

 

KK

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Seems like it was about a half a day talking about this one rule change, I hate that we got it changed only to have it reversed by the WB.

 

O'well

 

Florida puts on a great match the first weekend in Janurary, think that where I will be instead of Texas.

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Keystone,

 

6. Rifle is declared closed and proved empty = (1) MSV

 

Per PaleWolf above

 

"#6 depends on WHY/HOW the rifle closed.

it will usually be an MSV as an "accidental" closing due to "prop failure" is a "rare occurrence"."

 

Pleasant

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Seems like it was about a half a day talking about this one rule change, I hate that we got it changed only to have it reversed by the WB.

 

O'well

 

Florida puts on a great match the first weekend in Janurary, think that where I will be instead of Texas.

Good idea. I think I'll join you:)

Regards,

Ringer

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The only way to avoid this "accidental closing" is to use factory out of the box weapons, they have "hard" enough mechanisms not to be closed by any accidental action when discarded!

 

It'll be the end of the prepared guns, may be it's the purpose of this new new new rule.... to return to the CAS Fundamentals used decades ago when SASS was only a few hundred or thousand of shooters with no gammeers!

No offense intended but the above is hogwash. There is NO conspiracy and gamers have been in the game since the beginning.

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No offense intended but the above is hogwash. There is NO conspiracy and gamers have been in the game since the beginning.

That was a whole lot nicer than what the voice in my head said.

 

Try to remember, cowboys and cowgirls, that this is just a game. A great, exciting, and fun game, but a game none the less.

 

We all have different ideas on this and that, but if we let something like this tear us apart, the game would not be the same.

 

Do I wish some of the rules were a bit different? Hell yes! And this is only one of them. But, as a TO, I just have to call them based on what they are, not how I want them to be.

 

I hope to see y'all down the trail!

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A lot of work...effort...pain...as been expended just to eliminate a very rare occurrence...someone purposely closing their long gun after clearing it.

 

wow...

 

Phantom

Thanks for clarifying the Closed/Open action definition. Most of all, thank you for your perseverance, Phantom ... and all nvolved.

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Well,

 

Twice I have had a rifle close after "open & empty". Both times I had no knowledge of the lever closing nor was I called back to open the now "closed & empty" rifle. Both times shooting thru a window was envolved and it appears the lever struck the vertical edge of the window frame when discarding the rifle on the platform in front of the window. Because of the narrow windows it is difficult for anyone to get a good look at the rifle when it is being discarded. I don't throw my rifle down, I set it down firmly & under control. Would this be a "prop failure"? How about some examples of "prop failure"?

 

Hasta Luego,

Keystone

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If the prop is in the same condition at the end of the stage as it was at the beginning of the stage then I would say there was No prop failure.

 

A scew coming loose that was holding up a shelf that you staged your gun on allowing gun to fall.

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The only way to avoid this "accidental closing" is to use factory out of the box weapons, they have "hard" enough mechanisms not to be closed by any accidental action when discarded!

It'll be the end of the prepared guns, may be it's the purpose of this new new new rule.... to return to the CAS Fundamentals used decades ago when SASS was only a few hundred or thousand of shooters with no gammeers!

Curly plenty of shooters with highly modified long guns go for long periods without accidentally closing one. Both my '73. and my SKB are 'race' guns, and I can't remember the last time I had an issue with one closing.

 

From my perspective the real issue (as others have pointed out) isn't the final rule, it's how it was done.

 

The nature of SASS and the positions of TG's clubs and members has been clarified.

 

Clarity is a good thing, whether you like what you see or not.

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From my perspective the real issue (as others have pointed out) isn't the final rule, it's how it was done.

 

The nature of SASS and the positions of TG's clubs and members has been clarified.

 

Clarity is a good thing, whether you like what you see or not.

+1

 

Laz

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Well,

 

Twice I have had a rifle close after "open & empty". Both times I had no knowledge of the lever closing nor was I called back to open the now "closed & empty" rifle. Both times shooting thru a window was envolved and it appears the lever struck the vertical edge of the window frame when discarding the rifle on the platform in front of the window. Because of the narrow windows it is difficult for anyone to get a good look at the rifle when it is being discarded. I don't throw my rifle down, I set it down firmly & under control. Would this be a "prop failure"? How about some examples of "prop failure"?

 

Hasta Luego,

Keystone

 

 

Have had that happen also.

And that was what the vote was for.

But now that the WB has said our vote don't matter.

It is back to being a MSV. As I would not call that a prop failure.

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IF a shooter is catching the lever on some part of the prop as it is being discarded in such a manner that the action ends up CLOSING, perhaps the shooter should be a bit more aware of how the long gun is going down.

 

REF: Range Operations Summary - #5 (quoted in the OP)

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Okay, by George I think I've got it.

 

1. No one but shooter handles the rifle while under direct observation of the TO/RO.

2. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & proved empty = No Call.

3. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & spent case in action = (1) MSV

4. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round on carrier = (1) MSV

5. Rifle is declared open because action is not completely closed & live round in chamber = SDQ

6. Rifle is declared closed and proved empty = (1) MSV unless "prop failure" then No Call.

7. Rifle is declared closed and spent case in action = (2) MSV

8. Rifle is declared closed and live round chambered = SDQ

 

Hasta Luego, Keystone

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I like it rule going back to where it should be ,, although it makes TO s job harder . I still have it programmed in my mind that if lever closes fix it. We like to do down range movement and have gun restaged in a safe direction I think it adds a level of safety and also the way most gun ranges operate where you go down range to place targets or whatever with many guns pointing down range with actions open and empty. I've seen many times where folks will be down range and a perfectly safe gun will be touched by somebody thinking it's safer to touch move whatever when the gun was perfectly safe the way it was. I'm not sure how comfortable gun ranges would of been with rule change if they were informed. As far as TG vote goes I totally agree a lot of money is spent by folks and clubs to send TG s to summit , maybe a better system should be implemented especially since a 5 shooter club would have same vote as a 80 shooter club , it seems to me a electronic vote would be better.

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IF a shooter is catching the lever on some part of the prop as it is being discarded in such a manner that the action ends up CLOSING, perhaps the shooter should be a bit more aware of how the long gun is going down.

 

REF: Range Operations Summary - #5 (quoted in the OP)

 

 

In 9 years. Think it has happened to me 3 times.

So not all that big a problem.

 

 

I did not really care if the rule got changed in the first place.

Would it have been nice. Yes.

 

My problem is the WB putting it on the agenda for us to vote.

It gets voted in.

Put into place.

Then taken away.

 

There lays my problem with the whole thing. Why did we vote on it if they was never

going to let it happen.

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