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wackiest local range rules


Bugler

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or place the cork in the place where the sun don't shine :lol: ....:P

 

Reference post# 12

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

 

Man, this is a tough crowd around here. I think I'll pick up my dollies and move down the street a bit. :blink:

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How could the TO poll spotters, when many times there was only "1" spotter and the TO was also spotting and calling misses. It was weird. Sometimes someone standing back would call out misses, who had just got done not paying attention, but rather having a conversation.

I just decided to shoot match as a practice and learn my lesson, since it wasn't my club, keep quiet and let them go their way and continue. I guess this is were the familiar, "well at my club we--------, or my club allows us to------". :rolleyes: MT

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Back to OP. worst rule I've come across at a State Match was absolutly no movement whatsoever with gun in hand!

 

 

So you start, rifle in hand, but you can't lever it because of absolutely no movement. Did you have your Popeil Pocket Clanger with you? ;) Annual and above are required to follow SASS guidelines.

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I disagree with ya here, pard. What do you do when the shooter in front of you says, "Hey, dumba$$, how are you going to knock down the 6 fallers with two shotshells in your belt?" You leave your pistols on the table, slink back to your cart, and load your shotshell belt, while trying to retain your dignity. :lol: Then you thank your buddy for looking out for you, which we should all be doing for one another.

 

What would be the call if somehow, one of your loaded guns ended up on the ground while you were at your cart fetching shotgun shells?

 

It doesn't matter how it got there. It is the responsibility of the person who loaded them to ensure that the weapons are secure.

 

Believe me, I have been there. Forgotten a lot of stuff on the cart. However, I usually hollar at someone standing amongst the remuda and have them grab it and bring it for me.

 

I just want to ensure that I don't get a MDQ for someone else's accident.

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PS. I believe that all clubs should adhere to all SASS rules period. No local club things being added but that is just me. None of this ..."Well, in our club we do it this way..." Same rules for everyone all the time.

 

I agree with your overall statement that SASS clubs should abide by SASS rules. (With the notable exception that Okie Sawbones mentioned about relaxing the clothing requirements during extreme weather.) Unfortunately, some clubs have to abide by certain rules that are put in place by the owner(s) of the range they shoot on. Ace of Hearts has already mentioned one.

 

The two worst I've seen both involved the shotgun.

#1 Absolutely NO movement with loaded rounds in the chamber(s) and action open.

#2 If you need a single make-up shot and load two in your double you HAVE to shoot both. Letting a live round hit the ground = SDQ or even MDQ. (So, what's the penalty if you accidently jack a live round out of your rifle? :blink: )

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I disagree with your 'period'. I have caught grief from other TGS, but I don't let that bother me. The shooter comes first with me, not the rule book. If it is extremely hot, or extremely cold, I will put out in my match newsletter that the clothing police are not in force this weekend. Carhartt is my friend during the winter. :) We follow all SASS rules to the letter otherwise. I am a big advocate of common sense. Common sense is an endangered species in America.

 

I'm a big advocate of common sense too. And I agree that it is an endangered species in America. Common sense is not one's man's own personal decision to disregard the rules when it is not necessary to do so. Common sense would tell us that we need to do what we need to do to handle any particular situation... that is indeed what most people do when they find the need to take another route. What most people don't do is to get up on a stump and beat their chest about how they don't follow the rules. This is not common sense.. it is just Vanity.

 

Snakebite

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Only one shooter (of 3)at the LT may load at a time. Each round counted out loud with the command, "Gun is now ready, return it to the LT." By the 3rd stage I was ready to climb out of my own skin.

 

The major problem with revolvers on the LT (STOOPIT ROOLE!!!) is that 3 or even 4 shooters are now moving 4 loaded guns each every time a new shooter is called to the line. The short barrels can turn at will and can turn when the next shooter pushes their guns against them. The next shooter can even accidentally push another shooter's guns off the table without constant monitoring.

 

This makes it virtually impossible to prepare for the stage. Like many here I simply won't shoot twice at a club that has those rules in place.

 

Hammer must be lowered rather than trigger pulled allowing hammer to fall at the LT. SDQ... you gotta be kiding me? Pulling the trigger with the barrel of a long gun safely pointed into the berm is the very best way to be sure that hammer is fully down before loading. It's even the adopted rule for Wild Bunch; cleared and trigger pulled, holster. Won't go back there either.

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I'm a big advocate of common sense too. And I agree that it is an endangered species in America. Common sense is not one's man's own personal decision to disregard the rules when it is not necessary to do so. Common sense would tell us that we need to do what we need to do to handle any particular situation... that is indeed what most people do when they find the need to take another route. What most people don't do is to get up on a stump and beat their chest about how they don't follow the rules. This is not common sense.. it is just Vanity.

 

Snakebite

 

 

Read Philly Slim's reply, and quit trying to pick a fight. No one is stumping. I am making a simple comment about clothes police. If people are adverse to that, they can shoot elsewhere. I have never had a face-to-face complaint, only bickering on the TG Wire. When it is 22 degrees outside, with frost on the ground, people sure like their Carhartt quilted coveralls. :)

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My point in having only SASS rules for everyone is that now all rules are the same for all shooters. No having to remember which local rules apply to a local club.

 

I do understand the clothing exception mentioned above....I live in Montana where we see great extremes in conditions. I have shot in hail storms, rain, snow, over 100 above to 20 below, etc. We DO use common sense..

 

Bugler

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My point in having only SASS rules for everyone is that now all rules are the same for all shooters. No having to remember which local rules apply to a local club.

 

I do understand the clothing exception mentioned above....I live in Montana where we see great extremes in conditions. I have shot in hail storms, rain, snow, over 100 above to 20 below, etc. We DO use common sense..

 

Bugler

 

 

We have no local club rules, Bugler, unless you count the round over the berm is a MDQ. At some clubs it is not a MDQ. We always state this when we have our safety meeting. We follow the SASS Handbooks, with rare exceptions, such as relaxing the rules for new shooters until they can get all of their clothes and gear together.

 

We do relax the rules for temperature extremes at our monthly matches, which is actually pretty rare. We live in a fairly temperate climate. We can usually get by with wool long johns, and a heavy wool coat, and still stay in costume. Living in Montana, you see extremes much more than we do. I'm glad to see y'all use common sense.

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Read Philly Slim's reply, and quit trying to pick a fight. No one is stumping. I am making a simple comment about clothes police. If people are adverse to that, they can shoot elsewhere. I have never had a face-to-face complaint, only bickering on the TG Wire. When it is 22 degrees outside, with frost on the ground, people sure like their Carhartt quilted coveralls. :)

 

 

Sir:

This issue that you have with the rules has become an ongoing thing. You have made it very clear that you will circumvent the rules when you believe that following the rules as written would not be in the best interest of safety for the shooter. Believe it or not, I understand that philosophy and as anyone who knows me or has attended any of my many training courses knows that I practice that philosophy. As the Chairman of the RO Committee, and the Chief RO for SASS, I can tell you that the entire RO Committee and the WB also supports that philosophy. We all must take necessary steps to insure the safety of our members. In doing so, the first step would be to do so while staying within the rules. If however there is no alternative then of course we must do what is necessary. The ROC does not claim to have a monopoly on rules enforcement. We do NOT make the rules. We do our best to interpret them and provide guidance in situations where needed. You seem to take offense that we challenge many of your statements... well, there is a reason for it. We are the "Keepers" of the rules and we are charged with overseeing the propagation of those rules through the SASS training program. We encourage enforcement of the rules. Your continued comments to disregard the rules is counter- productive as is your offensive statements both on and off the wire. As I've said before... we do what we have to do and then move on... but in your case, that is not happening. Let it go man!

 

Snakebite

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Let it go man!

 

Snakebite

 

 

Seems you need to let it go, Snakebite. I follow SASS rules to the letter, except for what is already mentioned. Many others clubs that I have shot at make the same exceptions. You have just singled me out because I won't be intimidated by you. I have a string of titles behind my name as well, but you don't see me flaunting them at every opportunity. Titles don't mean anything to me; the actions of good people do. With that, I bid you ado.

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Seems you need to let it go, Snakebite. I follow SASS rules to the letter, except for what is already mentioned. Many others clubs that I have shot at make the same exceptions. You have just singled me out because I won't be intimidated by you. I have a string of titles behind my name as well, but you don't see me flaunting them at every opportunity. Titles don't mean anything to me; the actions of good people do. With that, I bid you ado.

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The two worst I've seen both involved the shotgun.

#1 Absolutely NO movement with loaded rounds in the chamber(s) and action open.

 

Seeing this at more places all the time.

But I am fine with it one way or the other.

A non issue for me.

But know it bothers some.

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Pistols had to be left laying on the LT after being loaded until called to the line.

 

Instead of being holstered where pistols should be.

 

Lone Dog,

 

This rule came about, when a young shooter in Texas was standing at the loading table, playing with the hammers on his pistols (that were holstered). A round goes off (.38 cal) left a clean enter and exit wound in leg. He was lucky but it started that rule at some clubs. We don't use that rule but I have reminded new and young shooters not to play with the hammers after holstering loaded guns.

 

Just thought I would give history of why some use this rule.

 

Blue Wolf

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Lone Dog,

 

This rule came about, when a young shooter in Texas was standing at the loading table, playing with the hammers on his pistols (that were holstered). A round goes off (.38 cal) left a clean enter and exit wound in leg. He was lucky but it started that rule at some clubs. We don't use that rule but I have reminded new and young shooters not to play with the hammers after holstering loaded guns.

 

Just thought I would give history of why some use this rule.

 

Blue Wolf

 

I know all about the incident...

I was at the loading table on the next stage when the round went off and I saw the wound in the aforementioned leg.

 

I'll repeat the same I said Several times back then....

No Matter how hard you try you Cannot Legislate away Stupidity !!!!!!

 

And by the way, just to ease inquiring minds...

The Incident Did NOT happen at a Club that I was or have ever been a member of.

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At one club that I shoot at, you have to clear your rifle on the firing line, by levering it, pull the trigger, then open the lever before heading to the unloading table. I don't know that I would call it wacky, but it is unusual from what I normally see. I think they said the parent club requires it.

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How about, you can't have 2 pistols out of the holsters at the same time. This means no gunfighter category. They said it was range safety policy, but people found out later it was a match director made up policy.

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One Club I shoot at requires that all long-guns be carried muzzle down ,,,,, This range is in the City and a AD could possibly reach a developed area if the muzzle was caried pointed up ....

 

Where-as a round into the ground isn't as big a problem ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Lone Dog,

 

This rule came about, when a young shooter in Texas was standing at the loading table, playing with the hammers on his pistols (that were holstered). A round goes off (.38 cal) left a clean enter and exit wound in leg. He was lucky but it started that rule at some clubs. We don't use that rule but I have reminded new and young shooters not to play with the hammers after holstering loaded guns.

 

Just thought I would give history of why some use this rule.

 

Blue Wolf

 

I remember another incident years ago in the Midwest I believe where a young lad managed to shoot hisownself in BOTH legs whilst fiddling with his hammers at the LT. Punishing everyone in CAS by adopting a totally unnecessary stoopid NON rule is over-reacting to an extreme. Just because a coupla youths do a stupid stunt is no reason to adopt a practice for everyone that is LESS safe for everyone. The possibility of an AD/ND by shuffling the pistols down the table goes up by a factor of umpteen zillions over the ancient tried and true practice of putting the loaded pistol right back into its home: the holster, where it BELONGS. Go ahead and put the hammer thong on it if'n ye are a skeered.

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How 'bout "external hammered shotguns can not be cocked until actually in use during a stage"

 

...... no staging "pre-cocked" ..... sighted as a "safety rule"

 

.......... open shotguns such as '97s, '87s & hammerless doubles are, of course, excepted.

 

 

:blink:

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Why is it that a local club can institute rules over-riding what SASS says is perfectly legal?

 

Bugler

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Why? Because it is their range, they are the ones who carry the insurance and the liability. Some of the rules stated are required by the host range, either the cowboy club accepts and enforces those rules, or they don't shoot there.

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At one club that I shoot at, you have to clear your rifle on the firing line, by levering it, pull the trigger, then open the lever before heading to the unloading table. I don't know that I would call it wacky, but it is unusual from what I normally see. I think they said the parent club requires it.

 

The club didn't require it until a cowgirl decided not to have her guns checked at the unloading table :huh: She shot the inside of her car when putting guns away :angry: Apparently she shot 9 of the 10 rounds on her last stage. The cowboys in charge decided to change the rule and took it to the club level to avoid any problems with the club. True Story ;)

Ringer

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Why? Because it is their range, they are the ones who carry the insurance and the liability. Some of the rules stated are required by the host range, either the cowboy club accepts and enforces those rules, or they don't shoot there.

 

Ding, ding, ding........

 

If the range wanted you to stand on one leg while you shoot.......that's the rules of that range.

 

CS

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Why is it that a local club can institute rules over-riding what SASS says is perfectly legal?

 

Bugler

 

 

Pretty much what Grizz said. The best example I can think of is the "loaded" shotgun and movement. SASS rules state you can move with live rounds in the chamber as long as the action is open. Some ranges, not the SASS club, say that's strictly forbidden. Their range - their rules. Either abide by them or find another place to shoot.

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The club didn't require it until a cowgirl decided not to have her guns checked at the unloading table :huh: She shot the inside of her car when putting guns away :angry: Apparently she shot 9 of the 10 rounds on her last stage. The cowboys in charge decided to change the rule and took it to the club level to avoid any problems with the club. True Story ;)

Ringer

 

 

(This is NOT directed at you Lead Ringer, I'm simply thinking out loud)

 

Huh? How would that rule have prevented that "accident"? And also, a person decides not to follow the rules so the club institutes another................RULE? Sounds like our brilliant leaders in D.C. when it comes to gun control laws. :blink:

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I got one for Wild Bunch shooters.....The club wouldn't let you stoke your shot gun or put a mag in the 1911 at the loading table :wacko: You had to carry the rifle, shotgun, shot shells and the mag to the line. You then could put the mag in the pistol and load the shotgun under the watchfull eye of the RO :blink: At this club apparently it was safe to load your six shooter at the loading table but not a 1911 :blink: Loading the mag tube on the rifle was safe but not the mag tube on a shotgun :blink:

Maybe it's a big ego booster to be the safer and smarter head cowboy?

Ringer

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(This is NOT directed at you Lead Ringer, I'm simply thinking out loud)

 

Huh? How would that rule have prevented that "accident"? And also, a person decides not to follow the rules so the club institutes another................RULE? Sounds like our brilliant leaders in D.C. when it comes to gun control laws. :blink:

 

 

I agree 100%...More rules because one person has a brain fart makes no sense to me.

Ringer

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The club didn't require it until a cowgirl decided not to have her guns checked at the unloading table :huh: She shot the inside of her car when putting guns away :angry: Apparently she shot 9 of the 10 rounds on her last stage. The cowboys in charge decided to change the rule and took it to the club level to avoid any problems with the club. True Story ;)

Ringer

 

 

Hey Ringer, how's Kaintuck? I have one problem here. How come the TO and spotters did not catch the round count and yell,"One More!" From the ROI Handbook:

The Timer Operator should not count misses, but watches the shooter for unsafe acts, correct target engagement, and stage procedures in addition to counting shots fired if possible. However, the Timer Operator is often times in the best position to evaluate hits or misses if in question.

 

I'm just thankful no one was hurt, just their pride.

 

 

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Pretty much what Grizz said. The best example I can think of is the "loaded" shotgun and movement. SASS rules state you can move with live rounds in the chamber as long as the action is open

 

No you can't ;) EXCEPT SxS that is 'broken' open.....

LG

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