Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've been thinking on this for awhile, but haven't found any actual numbers. Give me your thoughts. Scenario: home in bedroom. You hear a break-in. How many bad guys will not flee as soon as they realize someone is home? How many will not flee until they hear you yell "I have a gun and am dialing 911"? How many will not flee till they actually see a gun pointed at them? How many will not flee until you actually fire at them? How many will not flee until they are hit? How many will absolutely not flee regardless and must be disabled or killed by a gunshot? What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? I know we should be prepared for the worst case scenario, and I'm not suggesting we all should only have a .22 loaded with CB caps due to that fact that most folks will flee at the sight of a gun. Just thinking out load I reckon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 As far as I'm concerned....100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know. Call me cynical. Call me overprotective. Call me a kook. BUT....if I'm at home and someone breaks into my home, I'm going to shoot him. I'm not worried about whether he's going to run off, whether he's actually there to harm me or my family or whether he's going to steal anything. You break in, I shoot you. I guess I'm assuming he's the one who won't flee no matter what. I guess he had a choice before he decided to break into my home. And he made the wrong one. Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Phil Peeno #50923 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The main consideration about home invasions is who gets to shoot first. I prefer me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 The odds of you having a home invasion is very small, unless you are very rich or deal in drugs. Most break ins take place during normal working hours, that's when most people are away from their homes. In addition in many states, a B&E in the daylight is a misdemeanor and after dark it is a felony. If you're really concerned about a home invasion, you should have firearms accessible in sever parts of your house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Most thieves are "predators of opportunity." They seek easy targets. If the target looks difficult they'll pass it by. But "most" is not "all." And thieves are not terribly bright as a rule and make mistakes. So while the probabilities are that if they know somebody is home or armed or dialing 911 will cause them to seek "greener pastures" that's not guaranteed. SQQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pack Saddle Slim, SASS #73122 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? Why would you want anything less? What I'm trying to say is that with anything less than one-shot stopping capabilities you have too many negative possible outcomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I can not control or predict what they will do, or how they will react, but I can control what tool I have at hand and what I do with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hope for the best, Plan for the worst. Be prepared! 12ga pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I don't know. Call me cynical. Call me overprotective. Call me a kook. BUT....if I'm at home and someone breaks into my home, I'm going to shoot him. I'm not worried about whether he's going to run off, whether he's actually there to harm me or my family or whether he's going to steal anything. You break in, I shoot you. I guess I'm assuming he's the one who won't flee no matter what. I guess he had a choice before he decided to break into my home. And he made the wrong one. Chick +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rusty Bore SASS#22739 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 If a perp intent on doing my family harm breaks into my house I plan on calling 911! Hopefully the Coroner will be available! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashpowder Hal Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Reading all the news-clips from NRA's monthly magazine show most need to be shot "at" or "shot" before they flee. BTW - Last week a white ladder-van pulls in front of the house and a 20'ish male walks up to my front door. I walk to back of door, looking thru hole, he just stand there looking around the entry, no knock I get tired of waiting and say, "Can I help you?" - He jumps and stutters, "Ah, ah, I'm handing out FLYERS" I say, "Don't want any." thru the door and he walks away, leaves no "FLYERS" and gets back in van with the driver/lookout They drive off as I snap a pic of the Lic-plate, then call 911. Never heard back from PD. Guess just knowing someone is home works to scare off some PESTS Of course, I also had a 1911 in mah hand too, just in case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Gauntlet , SASS 60619 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Spray and pray is my approach. But then, I live 50 miles out of town, no neighbors, all by myself, and I keep no animals, except a canary in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been thinking on this for awhile... There was your first mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Krazy Kajun Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been reading the posts and mulling this over and decided I'd ask the similar question but with a little twist. So the perp kicks down your door and starts in your house. From a back room you hear the door being kicked in and grab your gun of choice and head down the hall to deal with the perp. As soon as the perp sees you coming down the hall carrying a gun he decides it ain't worth it and turns around and starts running toward the door he kicked in. Question....do you still shoot him? in the back? I'd say no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashpowder Hal Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been reading the posts and mulling this over and decided I'd ask the similar question but with a little twist. So the perp kicks down your door and starts in your house. From a back room you hear the door being kicked in and grab your gun of choice and head down the hall to deal with the perp. As soon as the perp sees you coming down the hall carrying a gun he decides it ain't worth it and turns around and starts running toward the door he kicked in. Question....do you still shoot him? in the back? I'd say no. Not In most states, YOU'LL be the one in prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Scenario: home in bedroom. You hear a break-in. How many bad guys will not flee as soon as they realize someone is home? How many will not flee until they hear you yell "I have a gun and am dialing 911"? How many will not flee till they actually see a gun pointed at them? How many will not flee until you actually fire at them? How many will not flee until they are hit? How many will absolutely not flee regardless and must be disabled or killed by a gunshot? What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? Pup.. wouldn't gonna post no more... but I have great respect for you and yore brother... My answer... if ya can, stop 'em immediately. Just be prepared to kill a youth. It's a kinda hard thing to stomach at first... or even, at last... if ya can. But you need to reconcile the life of yore family to your ultimate decision. Killing a child has a horrible consequence. Recently, I saw a video of a drug-store owner fella... who absolutely murdered a kid immobile on the floor of his store. Since I saw that... knowing how easy a bad decision could be considered the other, self-defense way, completely turned-around.... I have to speak out. But with your family, in the dark knowing where your family is located, shoot to protect. ts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Not In most states, YOU'LL be the one in prison Officer it was dark, I was scared for my life and the lives of my loved ones who were behind me screaming in fear. I saw the silhouette of a figure in front of me in the hallway with my broken down door behind it, so I fired my weapon to stop the threat. I don't know about a blue state like WA, but in Georgia I'm betting I walk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 All good answers, and thanks for everyone's thoughts. The bad thing about using lethal force (for me at least) is watching someone else die. Better them than my family or myself, and I could live with the consequences, but I sure it would have a long term effect on me. After the adrenalin rush I'd probably be a quivering bowl of jelly, not ready or even able to talk to anyone, much less police. I've never been in combat, nor seen someone shot. But I'm guessin' it ain't like in the movies where they just quietly lie down and that's it. If this thread has brought back bad memories for any of you, please accept my apologies. That was not my intent. Stud, your reply means a lot to me. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry Sloe Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Seem to be overthinking it and almost trying to talk yourself out of having to shoot. Rule 1. you never shoot to kill, you shoot to control the situation. Rule 2. you shoot center mass (just happens to be where all the vital organs are). I was taught this at the Corrections Officer Academy. Rule 3. doesn't matter what calibre the weapon is as long as you can place the bullets where you want them. and Rule 4. "Officer I was in fear for my life" should be your statement to the responding officers. You need to be mentally prepared, not to take a life, but to save yours, your family's, or even a third party. My two cents, Barry Sloe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flashpowder Hal Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If one has a firearm for self/home protection, a must-read is Masaad Ayoob's book, "In the Gravest Extreme". What you learn could not only save your life, but save you from spending years in prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEAD BANE, SASS 70197 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well, I guess you will just have to live or die with your choices. Picture your family in the worst possible condition because you couldnt shoot somebody, can you live with that? It all falls on you, your decision aint no skin off anybodys back but you and yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Vous Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been thinking on this for awhile, but haven't found any actual numbers. Give me your thoughts. Scenario: home in bedroom. You hear a break-in. How many bad guys will not flee as soon as they realize someone is home? How many will not flee until they hear you yell "I have a gun and am dialing 911"? How many will not flee till they actually see a gun pointed at them? How many will not flee until you actually fire at them? How many will not flee until they are hit? How many will absolutely not flee regardless and must be disabled or killed by a gunshot? What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? I know we should be prepared for the worst case scenario, and I'm not suggesting we all should only have a .22 loaded with CB caps due to that fact that most folks will flee at the sight of a gun. Just thinking out load I reckon. I think my 12 gauge is the best home defense, no point in missing.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If one has a firearm for self/home protection, a must-read is Masaad Ayoob's book, "In the Gravest Extreme". What you learn could not only save your life, but save you from spending years in prison +1 Everyone should read this book at least once! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think my 12 gauge is the best home defense, no point in missing.. lol +1 I'll clean up the mess later, at least I'll be around ta clean it up... JJJ-D :ph34r: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deja Vous Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 +1 I'll clean up the mess later, at least I'll be around ta clean it up... JJJ-D :ph34r: Great, now I know who to call.. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 All good answers, and thanks for everyone's thoughts. The bad thing about using lethal force (for me at least) is watching someone else die. Better them than my family or myself, and I could live with the consequences, but I sure it would have a long term effect on me. After the adrenalin rush I'd probably be a quivering bowl of jelly, not ready or even able to talk to anyone, much less police. Nothing wrong with that.Pretty normal. I've never been in combat, nor seen someone shot. But I'm guessin' it ain't like in the movies where they just quietly lie down and that's it. Sometimes it is sometimes it isn't. If this thread has brought back bad memories for any of you, please accept my apologies. That was not my intent. The thing is that you need to convince yourself that you are determined to survive a deadly encounter no matter what. You will never know how you're going to react until it happens. You can only prepare for the worst as best you can and hope you can meet the challenge.One way to prepare is to give yourself every advantage possible, both mentally and physically. Stud, your reply means a lot to me. Thanks. His words carry great weight. No chest thumping machismo. Just honest experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been reading the posts and mulling this over and decided I'd ask the similar question but with a little twist. So the perp kicks down your door and starts in your house. From a back room you hear the door being kicked in and grab your gun of choice and head down the hall to deal with the perp. As soon as the perp sees you coming down the hall carrying a gun he decides it ain't worth it and turns around and starts running toward the door he kicked in. Question....do you still shoot him? in the back? I'd say no. If you shoot somebody in the back you'd better have a really good story and a really, REALLY good lawyer. Even in a Red State this is going to be serious problem for the homeowner. If a perp doesn't run when they know they've been discovered or confronted then they are likely there for more than just a quick "score" on a computer, flat screen, some cash, etc. Know the law where you live (or where you carry) and be guided by it. SQQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been thinking on this for awhile, but haven't found any actual numbers. Give me your thoughts. Scenario: home in bedroom. You hear a break-in. How many bad guys will not flee as soon as they realize someone is home? How many will not flee until they hear you yell "I have a gun and am dialing 911"? How many will not flee till they actually see a gun pointed at them? How many will not flee until you actually fire at them? How many will not flee until they are hit? How many will absolutely not flee regardless and must be disabled or killed by a gunshot? What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? I know we should be prepared for the worst case scenario, and I'm not suggesting we all should only have a .22 loaded with CB caps due to that fact that most folks will flee at the sight of a gun. Just thinking out load I reckon. You're making this all too difficult for yourself - over analyzing the issue, as if trying to find a way to be comforted that it will NOT happen. Simplify your thinking and answer this one question - How many times can you and your family afford to be wrong or inadequate in how you deal with these situations? If the answer is zero - then you already know what you absolutely must do. The rest is dealt with by the survivors, the dead have no more worries. Shadow Catcher P.S. - if you must err, err on the side of being more ready and more safe than you have to . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowCatcher Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I think my 12 gauge is the best home defense, no point in missing.. lol I think you've been shooting CAS long enough to know that anypone can miss with a 12 guage - some do it with boring repeatability . . . SC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 If it comes down to You or ME....it's gonna' be YOU!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've been thinking on this for awhile, but haven't found any actual numbers. Give me your thoughts. Scenario: home in bedroom. You hear a break-in. How many bad guys will not flee as soon as they realize someone is home? How many will not flee until they hear you yell "I have a gun and am dialing 911"? How many will not flee till they actually see a gun pointed at them? How many will not flee until you actually fire at them? How many will not flee until they are hit? How many will absolutely not flee regardless and must be disabled or killed by a gunshot? What I'm getting at is what are the odds that you will absolutely need a firearm capable of a high percentage one-shot stop? I know we should be prepared for the worst case scenario, and I'm not suggesting we all should only have a .22 loaded with CB caps due to that fact that most folks will flee at the sight of a gun. Just thinking out load I reckon. How many will not flee after they have been shot dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm going to follow-up my previous post in hopes that those here can understand me better. Normally, I don't really care what people think about me, but for some reason, this crowd appeals to me. I have been to combat. I have been shot at. I have produced my weapon in such instances and "fired it in anger." I don't talk about it. I don't like to think about it. I dream about those events more often than I'd like. However, I know what I am capable of.....which scares me sometimes. And, if you break into my house, I will shoot you. I know I can, and I know I will. Because, the alternative is unthinkable to me. Perhaps I don't (over)analyze this situation because it reminds me of what I've done in the past.....it reminds me of what I've seen. I don't know. I just know that the first rule of a firefight is there aren't any rules....save one.....survive. Thankfully, here in Texas, I do not have to retreat or any other such thing. You break in, I have the legal right to produce my weapon and fire. If that sounds like bravado, well, I'm sorry. It is not my intention. I've often thought that the guy/gal who wrote these lines for Clint Eastwood's "The Outlaw Josey Wales" had been in combat somewhere/sometime: Josey Wales: "Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. 'Cause if you lose your head and you give up, then you neither live nor win. That's just the way it is." Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 I'm not going to take the chance that the one time I'm NOT prepared is the one time a totally psych, doped up, SOB decides that my house is the one he's going to break into. I'll hope that it doesn't happen and if it does it's easy to discourage the intruder(s), but if I have to shoot I want the threat to vanish instantly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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