WWII Carry Weapons

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

I've been watching "Band of Brothers" recently and always wondered the criteria for deciding who got what for weapons. Some carried Thompsons, some carried M1 carbines and some carried M1 Garands. Was there a criteria, or were paratroopers (and other troops for that matter) allowed to choose for themselves?

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

Well, I wasn't there, but my dad was in the South Pacific in a headquarters company. I gather that you got what you were issued (in his case a Garand). But if you knew a friendly supply sergeant, you could finagle a .45 to take to the foxhole at night (though usually only officers got those).

 

JHC

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

I've been watching "Band of Brothers" recently and always wondered the criteria for deciding who got what for weapons. Some carried Thompsons, some carried M1 carbines and some carried M1 Garands. Was there a criteria, or were paratroopers (and other troops for that matter) allowed to choose for themselves?

 

IIRC Army TOE decided what weapons were issued to what class of troops. Within that class I'm sure there was some lattitude on distribution. I'd also bet that there was a certain amount of "cumshaw" and "who knew who."

 

Be wary of any film as an accurate historical presentation of weapons at the organizational level.

 

SQQ

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I've been watching "Band of Brothers" recently and always wondered the criteria for deciding who got what for weapons. Some carried Thompsons, some carried M1 carbines and some carried M1 Garands. Was there a criteria, or were paratroopers (and other troops for that matter) allowed to choose for themselves?

 

Officially, there was a Table of Organization and Equipment that laid out precisely what was issued to each company of men in each type of unit. This was used then to figure out what ammo might be needed during resupply.

 

In practice, the farther from any high ranking officer your men were, the more flexibility in what they carried. The heavy weapons guys usually had to stick to what their specialty was. There was certainly a lot of field pickup going on, even the carrying of enemy weapons, but resuppply was often problematic and the different sounds of the guns were enough to spook most guys into not carrying foreign guns.

 

I've got a pic of my Dad's buddies test firing a STG-44 assault rifle during the Battle of the Bulge. But I kinda doubt they carried it.,

 

He is also shown in a picture carrying a slung folding stock (paratroop) M1 carbine. Don't think that was authorized to the glider troops. But then, he was the Top Kick of a Service Company for 4 years in that conflict.

 

There was reported to be a lot of swapping of Thompsons for grease guns, Garands for M1 carbines, and other things to minimize weight of your ruck, or hide your lack of accuracy with a rifle.

 

In the Pacific theater, it's widely reported in most histories that a lot more M1 carbines were carried than the TOE allowed, and a lot fewer 1911s.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Here's a good discussion on another board:

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/29129-e-basic-us-infantry-squad-platoon.html

 

And one contributor cited this distribution of weapons for an Airbone rifle squad:

• 1 Squad Leader(SSgt)---------M1 Garand Rifle, or Thompson SMG
• 1 Assistant Leader(Sgt)------M1 Garand Rifle, Carbine, or SMG
• 7 Riflemen ------------------M1 Garand Rifles and (2 max) Carbines
• 1 Machine Gunner-------------M1919A4/6 (Browning MG), and a Carbine
• 1 Assistant Gunner-----------M1 Carbine
• 1 Ammo bearer----------------M1 Garand Rifle

That is the closest thing to a standard Airborne Rifle squad. Again they varied, but with the weapons shown in that table. Platoon HQ had the 1st and 2nd Lieutenants carrying Carbines or SMGs, and the Platoon Sergeant and Guide had Rifles and Carbines.

 

Note the use of a Browning MG rather than BAR in the rifle squad. One major difference between what the regular army and the airborne guys were allowed to use.

[Ethan Cord]

Find the smallest guy in the unit and make him carry a mortar plate & the BAR!

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

After the first battle you could pick up whatever there was laying around...from either side.

[Subdeacon Joe]

I found these, hope they help.

 

US Army Infantry Squad - 12 men: Squad leader (Thompson submachine gun 'SMG', M1 carbine, or M1 Garand rifle), 10 rifleman (M1 Garand rifle), 1 automatic rifleman (BAR). Organized as: Able Team (2 scouts); Baker Team (5 rifleman), Charlie Team (3 rifleman + BAR). One rifleman per platoon would generally carry a bazooka in addition to his personal weapon. There were 3 rifle squads per platoon in a rifle company.

 

US Airborne Infantry Squad - 12 men: same as infantry squad except that the BAR is replaced by a M1919A1 light machine gun (LMG). Same organization as the regular infantry squad. In practice the organization was flexible to the mission with one or more rifles often replaced by submachine guns and one man in the squad carrying a bazooka (generally one per platoon).

 

USMC Rifle Squad - 13 men (1944): The marine squad evolved throughout the war, adding additional firepower with each increment until settling on the 13-man configuration in mid 1944. Organized with a squad leader (Thompson SMG), and 3 x 4-man fire teams (3 rifles + 1 BAR each). In addition to the assigned personal weapons, the company commander could allocate 1 demolition pack and 1 flame thrower per squad as well as 1 bazooka per platoon, depending on mission requirements. These weapons would be carried by one of the squad's rifleman in addition to a personal weapon (often an M1 carbine to lighten the load). Since marines were often engaged in close-in fighting, they would frequently scrounge Thompson SMG's to replace rifles when available.

 

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_men_in_a_squad_in_World_War_2#ixzz1VtXfO3pc

FM 21-100 Basic Filed Manual: Soldier's Handbook

 

From what little I know the M1 Carbine was a sort of special use weapon issued to mortar & machine gun crews, tankers, radio- & artillerymen, engineers, HQ staff, and the like - basically troops who were either already loaded down or in tight quarters. Thompsons went to platoon leaders and NCOs. I'm sure, and I hope, others will correct any errors I have made.

[Tom Bullweed]

Audie Murphy carried a M1 Carbine according to his book due to his small stature. Once he was promoted to Lt, he carried a Thompson. He is credited with over 300 kills, but many of these were with a 50 BMG mounted on a buring tank.

He recorded kills out to 300 yards with the carbine! There is plenty of eyewitnesses to put down any dispute.

He never fought the Japanese soldiers who were reported to be able to absorb plenty of carbine rounds without letting up.

[Badger Mountain Charlie SASS #43172]

What goes into combat is rarely the same as what comes out of combat.

[Big50]

My father, a tanker in the 32nd Armored Reg,3rd Armored Division, told me and, I have several different pictures from different times in 44 and 45 of him carrying a 1911 in the typical GI shoulder holster. They keep two Garands and a Thompson in their tank if they had to leave the tank. In August of 44(during the "push to the Rhine") my father started carrying a P-08. He liked the way it pointed much better. My father enjoyed shooting pistols and his choice in later years was always a S&W Combat Masterpiece, the Model 19 until the Model 66 came out. He never cared much for the 1911 but he always enjoyed shooting "his" Luger. It is my bed room right now. I have some great pictures of him in France and Belgium in Nov of 44 carrying the Luger in a "field modified" G.I. shoulder holster.

[Ethan Cord]

My grandfather served in the Sea Bees in WWII and he had an M1 Carbine. I'm not sure what he had during WWI or the QM Corp. I do know he was 44 years old when he joined the 105th Sea Bees.

[Charlie Whiskers]

I had 2 uncles overseas during WW2.One was a truck driver stationed in Iran and he was issued a 03.The other was a crew chief on a B24 flying missions over the "Hump" into china.He carried a 1911.My Dad was an aircraft mechanic but was never sent overseas.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

My Father was a SSgt, gunner in a B-17, he carried a 1911 but used a 50 cal in the plane!

[Seldom Seen #16162]

In a police action in Korea after WWII my father-in-law was a flight engineer in B-29's making bombing runs over North Korea. He said that because of the way N. Korean's were treating American POW's his crew vowed not to be taken prisoner if they were shot down so he carried a 45 1911, a 38 revolver and a Grease Gun with extra mags stuck in the top of his flying boots. I imagine not having to walk made it a lot easier to pack all of that hardware. He did get shot down by flak but they were able to make a emergency landing in South Korea.

 

This is a little off of the O.P.'s question but I think it shows how loose the rules were in combat during that time period.

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

From the WW2 Soldiers Handbook, to clarify somethings,

"A Squad is the largest Unit that can be effectively controlled by the voice or signals of its leader, Corporal or Sergeant". A Squad can be from 4 to 16 members. There are different squad, Infantry, Mortar, and Machine Gun. Generally members of the Mortar and Machine Gun squads will be issued carbines, with its leaders a Thompson, Garand,or carbine. Each member will also be issued the .45 1911s.

A Platoon will consist of several squads, or 2 sections, 40 to 50 members.

Depending on what units, Company (infantry), Troops (cavalry), or Battery (artillery), will consist of 3 or 4 platoons commanded by a Captain.

Army infantry Squads leaders had their choices of weapons including a sidearm, of either the Thompson, Garand, or carbine.

The Squads were further organized into teams consisting again from 4 to 16 members:

Able Team (having 2 scouts)

Baker Team (5 Riflemen)

Charlie (3 riflemen + 10 riflemen with Garands, and a BAR man)

Each Platoon will have 1 rifleman qualified with a Bazooka.

 

Commanding officers frowned on use of captured weapons unless it was an emergency, since it also destroyed the organization of the squads and teams, and purpose. Bars and Thompson's were also to be used by those qualified in its use and care. Ammunition was deployed by a factor of known weapons in a company, platoon, and squad and distributed as supplies came up. Also since Garands were to be used as suppression of the enemy, everyone carrying weapons of their choice would defeat the purpose when a squad, platoon, etc, is called on a mission for a purpose.

 

Airborne Troops carried mostly Thompson's, .45 Grease guns, and M1A, though Garands and BARs were also issued in jumps, these were mostly damaged in jumps, and were deployed seperately in cargo chutes.

MT

[Wolfgang, SASS #53480]

A lot of British in all areas of service carried WWI era Webley MKVI revolvers. I've got a couple of them. I do with they could talk ...

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

 

Here's a good discussion on another board:

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/29129-e-basic-us-infantry-squad-platoon.html

 

And one contributor cited this distribution of weapons for an Airbone rifle squad:

• 1 Squad Leader(SSgt)---------M1 Garand Rifle, or Thompson SMG
• 1 Assistant Leader(Sgt)------M1 Garand Rifle, Carbine, or SMG
• 7 Riflemen ------------------M1 Garand Rifles and (2 max) Carbines
• 1 Machine Gunner-------------M1919A4/6 (Browning MG), and a Carbine
• 1 Assistant Gunner-----------M1 Carbine
• 1 Ammo bearer----------------M1 Garand Rifle

That is the closest thing to a standard Airborne Rifle squad. Again they varied, but with the weapons shown in that table. Platoon HQ had the 1st and 2nd Lieutenants carrying Carbines or SMGs, and the Platoon Sergeant and Guide had Rifles and Carbines.

 

Note the use of a Browning MG rather than BAR in the rifle squad. One major difference between what the regular army and the airborne guys were allowed to use.

Interesting. One of the things Spielberg did in "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" was bring as much authenticity as possible to the productions. This list resembles what was portrayed in BOB.

 

The material/equipment/supply logistics of war is fascinating and mind-numbing at the same time.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Interesting. One of the things Spielberg did in "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" was bring as much authenticity as possible to the productions. This list resembles what was portrayed in BOB.

 

Most of the authenticity PROBABLY came from the contributions by Capt. Dale Dye and Dr. Stephen Ambrose, both VERY knowledgeable guys on US Army operations, and one a fine historian, who were in on these two movies in a big way (Ambrose, of course, "wrote the book" (literally) on Band of Brothers).

 

Spielberg is to be commended as a director, too, but as far as I have seen, does not have the depth of knowledge in military history to do it himself.

 

Good luck, and "All the Way" and "Let's Go", GJ,

[Utah Bob #35998]

Most of the authenticity PROBABLY came from the contributions by Capt. Dale Dye and Dr. Stephen Ambrose, both VERY knowledgeable guys on US Army operations, and one a fine historian, who were in on these two movies in a big way (Ambrose, of course, "wrote the book" (literally) on Band of Brothers).

 

Spielberg is to be commended as a director, too, but as far as I have seen, does not have the depth of knowledge in military history to do it himself.

 

Good luck, and "All the Way" and "Let's Go", GJ,

 

True but he has always been a big WWII history buff and is smart enough to seek out real experts to get the details right. Some poetic license is always taken of course. Like a squad having deep conversations while on patrol and walking so close together one round would get them all but Hollywood will do what's necessary for any given scene.

Spielberg is a guy who refuses to let the history of The Greatest Generation die. I wonder if anyone will take up the cause when he's gone? I fear no one shall.

[Chickahominy Charlie]

The only thing I'll add is this -- the more things change, the more they stay the same.

 

MTOE (Modified Table of Organization and Equipment) will always try to give the infantry squad a varied amount of firepower with varying ranges. In the case of the WW II squad, you have the M-1 (good long range, fair volume of fire), Thompson/Greaseguns (poor long range, but good volume close), BAR's (good long range and short, but a heavy pig that required lots of magazine changes), .30 cal MG (good long and close volume, but a real pig to tote and set up properly), etc.

 

Today, they're doing the same thing with the M-4, SAW, Mk-19's, etc. And that's not even going into the pistols.

 

From my experiences, I can tell you that the basic soldier will find the weapon that suits him and he's comfortable with. I'm a tanker, and I'd have been lost without my 1911A1 in my shoulder holster. I even deployed with my M-9 (9mm)(which I hated) and shortly thereafter, turned it back into the unit armorer when I got my hands on a 1911A1 and three loaded mags of .45.

 

When it's your life, you'll make the decision that's right for you -- more times than not.

 

Chick

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

Well, let's see....

 

I wasn't even born yet, so no personal knowledge....

 

Dad was in it, but he was onboard a minesweeper at Normandy, and his only weapons experience was a 1911 for shore patrol later in the war.....

 

Lots of folks have answered, with varying results depending upon theater, branch, time, etc.....

 

So where do I go for a REAL AUTHORITATIVE ANSWER?????

 

I KNOW......

 

Sgt. Sanders carried a Thompson most of the time...(he had a carbine in the first episode)

 

Lt. Hanley carried a carbine....

 

Kirby had the BAR....

 

Most of the others had Garands....

 

Hey! You have to turn to whatever source material you have available! Combat!

 

LL

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

My dad was a Medic in the North Africa, Sicilian and Italian campaigns. He scrounged up a pair of Beretta .32 caliber pistols as a hold out. Rangers usually weren't afforded much if captured.... Even the medics....

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

My uncle was in the 101st Airborne and jumped into France the night before the invasion. He was captured 23 miles inland and spent the rest of the war in POW camps. He said that they had their choice of weapons; he chose an M1 carbine with a folding stock as it fit into a pocket in his pants. The Garand had a nasty habit of smacking you hard when you hit the ground. He only started telling the family what he did when he was in his 70's and getting quite frail.

[Chief Rick]

None of my family that served during WW II are still around, and I unfortunately don't remember a lot of those who did serve actually talking about it (wish I had paid more attention).

 

For those of you who still have family or friends from that era, please send them a special thank you from me and treasure every conversation you can be a part of.

[Charlie Whiskers]

My Dad and 2 uncles are all gone now.I spent a lot of time listening to the stories they told about that time of their lives and am glad I had the chance.Every day when I read the local paper there's 1 or 2 more of that GREAT generation in the obit's.We're losing more of them each day and it won't be long before all are gone.God Bless all of those still here and all that have passed on.We owe them a LOT.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

So where do I go for a REAL AUTHORITATIVE ANSWER?????

 

Well, I think you got a couple of pretty sound answers already.

 

Two of the very best authors of WW II history are Gen. S L A Marshall and Charles B MacDonald. Both had boots on the ground in the conflict and blood, sweat and tears invested, as well as being good writers and smart gentlemen. I can recommend any of their books, especially MacDonald's Company Commander, and A Time for Trumpets (one of my favorites for the Battle of the Bulge).

 

One tome that might get right to some of your interests could be one I have not yet seen:

Closing With the Enemy: How GIs Fought the War in Europe, 1944-1945 (Modern War Studies), by Michael Doubler

Doubler is an instructor at West Point, and this book sounds like a good one for the innovative and adaptive American tactics on the ground in WW II.

 

 

Sgt. Sanders carried a Thompson most of the time...(he had a carbine in the first episode)

- Ummmm, Saunders, I believe.

Good luck, GJ

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

Interesting. One of the things Spielberg did in "Saving Private Ryan" and "Band of Brothers" was bring as much authenticity as possible to the productions. This list resembles what was portrayed in BOB.

 

The material/equipment/supply logistics of war is fascinating and mind-numbing at the same time.

 

Some film makers are better than others in authenticity.

 

Your second observation parallels an old saw: Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.

 

If every troop has a full auto weapon the burden on the supply system will be very heavy. That means devoting more vehicles, people, fuel, etc. to haul ammo. That means less vehicles, people, fuel, etc. to haul everything else (food, wounded, other supplies, etc.). You often hear bitter comments about Gen. Ripley's decision to delay the introduction of repeating firearms in 1861 on the stated grounds that it would encourage soldiers to "waste ammunition." Yet those criticisms always fail to consider the supply system of the day where every item that reached a soldier was moved by ship, train, animal conveyance, or "shanks mare." Ammunition is heavy. If it's being "wasted" then so is the massive transport effort to move it. This sounds odd to the "armchair tactician" but makes perfect sense to a professional commander. Not that the professional commander would not like to have his troops armed with the "latest and greatest." He just recognizes the limitations of his assets.

 

IIRC when the M-14 was introduced it was full auto capable but not every weapon had the necessary "selector switch." Doesn't the M-16 have mutliple versions, some go full auto and other single shot/3 round burst? The Army, traditionally, rejected "spray and pray" tactics. The Marines were notorious for their emphasis on marksmanship (the polar opposite of "spray and pray"). Right now we have such a vast tactical and logistic supremacy over any enemy we are currently engaging that this logistical limitation has faded some. From a soldier's point of view he will use the firepower necessary to accomplish his mission but always must keep in the back of his mind a "round count" and where his resupply will come from. His commander must be even more cognizant of the issue.

 

I'm sure there were folks who carried non-standard weapons in WWII. I doubt it was in the numbers you sometimes see in Hollyweird epics.

 

SQQ

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics.

Rick Atkinson has written 2 of the finest books I've read that goes into the logistics of war. "Army at Dawn" is about the planning and invasion of North Africa and "Day of Battle" is about the Italian campaign. His third book about the invasion of Europe in 1944-1945 is still being written.

 

In addition to the battles, he gets into things like how much food had to be unloaded and prepared to feed the troops. One of the more interesting things I read was that Patton had a habit of interfering in such things as how the ships were loaded. Apparently he ordered his ships loaded and reloaded several times before sailing from Norfolk, VA. The end result was that many of the jeeps that were off-loaded in North Africa had cracked windshields because troops had to walk across them in the holds of the ships in order to get to the ammo and things underneath that were needed first on the beaches.

 

Liberation Trilogy

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Just thought I would add. On "Combat" pilot episode, "A Day in June", Both Hanley and Saunders are both shown carrying M1 Garands. Hanley is a Platoon/Sgt First, Saunder a Sgt. The next episode shows Hanley receiving a Field Commission and picking a carbine, with Saunders picking up a Thompson from supply. MT

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Just thought I would add. On "Combat" pilot episode, "A Day in June", Both Hanley and Saunders are both shown carrying M1 Garands. Hanley is a Platoon/Sgt First, Saunder a Sgt. The next episode shows Hanley receiving a Field Commission and picking a carbine, with Saunders picking up a Thompson from supply. MT

 

Yep, production notes from Rick Jason (LT Hanley) that I have read say that he refused to carry something as heavy as a Garand or Thompson, for the series, and asked for the lightest gun available. So, he got the M1 carbine. Vic Morrow (SGT Saunders) then got assigned the Thompson SMG. But, it was so heavy, Morrow had the prop guy make a wooden replacement, and only carried the blank-firing full-weight gun when a scene would require burning ammo.

 

Jason was a real shooter; shot a lot of clays (whereas Morrow was not fond of firearms at all). Jason even "appropriated" that M1 Carbine after production stopped (it had a blank-firing barrel insert), but after a few years got tired of it taking up room in the gun safe, so he let Shecky Greene (Burroughs) have it. Said he'd rather have a good shotgun in the safe.

 

Good luck, GJ

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

Rick Atkinson has written 2 of the finest books I've read that goes into the logistics of war. "Army at Dawn" is about the planning and invasion of North Africa and "Day of Battle" is about the Italian campaign. His third book about the invasion of Europe in 1944-1945 is still being written.

 

In addition to the battles, he gets into things like how much food had to be unloaded and prepared to feed the troops. One of the more interesting things I read was that Patton had a habit of interfering in such things as how the ships were loaded. Apparently he ordered his ships loaded and reloaded several times before sailing from Norfolk, VA. The end result was that many of the jeeps that were off-loaded in North Africa had cracked windshields because troops had to walk across them in the holds of the ships in order to get to the ammo and things underneath that were needed first on the beaches.

 

Liberation Trilogy

 

In the North African invasion you had the first large scale, opposed landing of U.S. forces since the Spanish-American War. In that conflict the logistics were a total Charlie Charlie Foxtrot. We did better in North Africa, better yet in Sicily and Italy, and were real pros by the time Normandy came around. The Navy/Marines in the Pacific learned some real hard lessons on the 'Canal and at Tarawa. By the time we landed on Okinawa the whole process ran with great smoothness.

 

Amphibious ops are the single, toughest conventional warfare operations. They are complicated, expensive, and can be contained or even defeated by a nimble defender or an invasion commander without sufficient audacity. Gallipoli, the first Japanese attack on Wake Is., and Anzio are examples.

 

The Army of 1943 was vastly different than the Army of 1939. It was never, however, the home of "Kelly's Heros." And Catch 22 and Mr. Roberts were novels, not histories. We do well to keep that in mind.

 

SQQ

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

Yep, production notes from Rick Jason (LT Hanley) that I have read say that he refused to carry something as heavy as a Garand or Thompson, for the series, and asked for the lightest gun available. So, he got the M1 carbine. Vic Morrow (SGT Saunders) then got assigned the Thompson SMG. But, it was so heavy, Morrow had the prop guy make a wooden replacement, and only carried the blank-firing full-weight gun when a scene would require burning ammo.

 

Jason was a real shooter; shot a lot of clays (whereas Morrow was not fond of firearms at all). Jason even "appropriated" that M1 Carbine after production stopped (it had a blank-firing barrel insert), but after a few years got tired of it taking up room in the gun safe, so he let Shecky Greene (Burroughs) have it. Said he'd rather have a good shotgun in the safe.

 

Good luck, GJ

I highly recommend the book "A viewers companion to the ABC series COMBAT" by Jo Davidsmeyer. Its very comprehensive on the series. From weapons, to unforms, special effects, etc. she was with the Combat cruise were we got to meet Ric Jason, and several of the cast members, Caje, Doc, Kirby, Little John, etc. She is very knowledgable on the series, and even Ric had to pass a few questions over to her on things he had forgotten. The "Original Pilot" was later scrapped and edited with new footage as kind of a look back at the landing on "D" Day after ABC picked the series up. When Ric and Vic Morrow showed up for costume fitting and also for a 3 week recruit training, Ric, a gun collector knew the value of carrying a lighter weapons in the series, so picked the carbine, which he recommended to Vic also. But Vic told Ric he thought the Thompson looked "Cool" so went for it. Ric told the crowd that after several months at one of their after hour tea parties at Vic trailer, he regretted it, because of the weight. But production would make a light weight wooden Thompson for him to carry, since production had loops that they were going to use throughout the series. Vic also dispensed with the magazine pouch, weight. Vic also received a light weight fiberglass helmet the second season, of which Ric received one the third season. Last season the whole squad received theirs. As to the Thompson, it was the cause for more re-takes then the actors, it of 3 used, would consistantly jamb from the blank powder, and casings.

The last season was a disapointment for all the actors in the series, because of ABC insistence they go color. They knew the grittiness would disapear and many props wouldn't look right. They were right. Caje, was my favorite, in the series and on the cruise. Many times at 0430, I would meet him for coffee at the breakfast bar. He had great stories, of the series, and cast. There was not one cruel word ever said about anyone on the series, except ABCs stupid idea of going color and killing the series. MT(

[Utah Bob #35998]

I highly recommend the book "A viewers companion to the ABC series COMBAT" by Jo Davidsmeyer. Its very comprehensive on the series. From weapons, to unforms, special effects, etc. she was with the Combat cruise were we got to meet Ric Jason, and several of the cast members, Caje, Doc, Kirby, Little John, etc. She is very knowledgable on the series, and even Ric had to pass a few questions over to her on things he had forgotten. The "Original Pilot" was later scrapped and edited with new footage as kind of a look back at the landing on "D" Day after ABC picked the series up. When Ric and Vic Morrow showed up for costume fitting and also for a 3 week recruit training, Ric, a gun collector knew the value of carrying a lighter weapons in the series, so picked the carbine, which he recommended to Vic also. But Vic told Ric he thought the Thompson looked "Cool" so went for it. Ric told the crowd that after several months at one of their after hour tea parties at Vic trailer, he regretted it, because of the weight. But production would make a light weight wooden Thompson for him to carry, since production had loops that they were going to use throughout the series. Vic also dispensed with the magazine pouch, weight. Vic also received a light weight fiberglass helmet the second season, of which Ric received one the third season. Last season the whole squad received theirs. As to the Thompson, it was the cause for more re-takes then the actors, it of 3 used, would consistantly jamb from the blank powder, and casings.

The last season was a disapointment for all the actors in the series, because of ABC insistence they go color. They knew the grittiness would disapear and many props wouldn't look right. They were right. Caje, was my favorite, in the series and on the cruise. Many times at 0430, I would meet him for coffee at the breakfast bar. He had great stories, of the series, and cast. There was not one cruel word ever said about anyone on the series, except ABCs stupid idea of going color and killing the series. MT(

 

That was great thanks!

I never missed an episode of Combat. The color decision definitely took a lot away from the series.

[Utah Bob #35998]

In the North African invasion you had the first large scale, opposed landing of U.S. forces since the Spanish-American War. In that conflict the logistics were a total Charlie Charlie Foxtrot. We did better in North Africa, better yet in Sicily and Italy, and were real pros by the time Normandy came around. The Navy/Marines in the Pacific learned some real hard lessons on the 'Canal and at Tarawa. By the time we landed on Okinawa the whole process ran with great smoothness.

 

Amphibious ops are the single, toughest conventional warfare operations. They are complicated, expensive, and can be contained or even defeated by a nimble defender or an invasion commander without sufficient audacity. Gallipoli, the first Japanese attack on Wake Is., and Anzio are examples.

 

The Army of 1943 was vastly different than the Army of 1939. It was never, however, the home of "Kelly's Heros." And Catch 22 and Mr. Roberts were novels, not histories. We do well to keep that in mind.

 

SQQ

 

In combat, there is no substitute for experience.

Even the Yankee cavalry improved after a couple of years.

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

In combat, there is no substitute for experience.

Even the Yankee cavalry improved after a couple of years.

 

Indeed.

 

The private learns or goes home in a box. The general learns or lots of privates go home in boxes.

 

SQQ