How do you handle "local rules"?

[Shooting Bull]

I shoot Double Duelist. If a stage calls for pistols last, it's a waste of time trying to holster my first pistol after firing it before drawing my second one. For that reason, when I've emptied the first pistol I simply bring it back into my body about hip level as I'm drawing my second pistol. (Yes, I keep the first one pointed safety down range)

 

Was recently at a match and did that on a stage. When I was done the Timer Operator informed me that I HAD to holster the first pistol before I was allowed to draw the second. I said if pistols are last, that isn't a requirement. He paused for a while and then said, "It's a club rule." I didn't ask if it was a rule of his SASS club or a rule of the facility where the match was being held. I thanked him for the info and went about the match.

 

So, how do you handle "club rules"?

[Bad Hand]

Most clubs post "local rules" on their web site, it's always nice to know them before they are applied to you.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Philly,

 

I'd be interested in knowing if the club officers are aware of that "club rule." Also, these "club rules" need to be announced at the shooters' meeting if it is a SASS affiliated club. In your case, I'd ask the Pres.

 

We used to shoot Chabot (non SASS) and they have many club rules. At the US Open you could not load the SG when on the move (it was announced). When in Rome...is the only way to go. If you don't like them, don't shoot there again.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

 

 

So, how do you handle "club rules"?

There maybe a reason, sometimes its the range owners rules imposed on CAS to allow CAS. I may not like em, but accept them. Hopefully posted, or included in their safety briefing for new shooters. MT

[Yusta B.]

When they are announced in the pre-shoot safety meeting I decide whether or not I want to shoot under these SASS exceptions - fair enough. When they get sprung on you after a stage - a little different story. If they want to award a penalty because of unannounced club rules, a lively discussion is going to follow in short order. Some clubs have to operate under rules of the particular range they are using. Announce it ahead of time and all will be well.

[Grizzly Dave]

If'n it's someplace yer gonna shot more than once, I think I'd verify that "rule" with the match director. Otherwise how you handled it was great, life's too short to raise a big stink over every little thing.

 

Near as I know, the rule is you can't have two Loaded revolvers in hand at the same time, pistols first, last, middle, no matter. I've seen duelists who never holster that first one before shooting the second.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Philly, while I"m not a bettin' man, if I were, I'd bet that you simply caught the TO essentially with his britches down. Based upon what he had been told, not what he has read, he thought it was a rule, so he told you. When you pointed out that it was actually a non-rule, instead of sucking it up and admitting that he was wrong, he made it up that it's a club rule. If it wasn't announced at the shooter's meeting and the club is claiming to be using SASS rules, it ain't a rule. I can provide witnesses to the fact that non-rules go over like a lead balloon with me. I can attest to the fact that people don't like it when they're wrong and some might attempt to put you in a bad light.

 

I did attend a match once where it was announced at the shooter's meeting that you were not allowed to use loading strips. You were required to lay your ammo in four rows of five on the loading table. I thought it was goofy, but I played along. They were nice people, but were a little out of the loop.

 

 

 

[Lethal Larry, SASS #58429]

I shoot Double Duelist. If a stage calls for pistols last, it's a waste of time trying to holster my first pistol after firing it before drawing my second one. For that reason, when I've emptied the first pistol I simply bring it back into my body about hip level as I'm drawing my second pistol. (Yes, I keep the first one pointed safety down range)

 

Was recently at a match and did that on a stage. When I was done the Timer Operator informed me that I HAD to holster the first pistol before I was allowed to draw the second. I said if pistols are last, that isn't a requirement. He paused for a while and then said, "It's a club rule." I didn't ask if it was a rule of his SASS club or a rule of the facility where the match was being held. I thanked him for the info and went about the match.

 

So, how do you handle "club rules"?

He didn't assess a P on you did he? That would be wrong unless it was announced before the match started.

[The Shoer 27979]

Philly, while I"m not a bettin' man, if I were, I'd bet that you simply caught the TO essentially with his britches down. Based upon what he had been told, not what he has read, he thought it was a rule, so he told you. When you pointed out that it was actually a non-rule, instead of sucking it up and admitting that he was wrong, he made it up that it's a club rule. If it wasn't announced at the shooter's meeting and the club is claiming to be using SASS rules, it ain't a rule. I can provide witnesses to the fact that non-rules go over like a lead balloon with me. I can attest to the fact that people don't like it when they're wrong and some might attempt to put you in a bad light.

 

I did attend a match once where it was announced at the shooter's meeting that you were not allowed to use loading strips. You were required to lay your ammo in four rows of five on the loading table. I thought it was goofy, but I played along. They were nice people, but were a little out of the loop.

 

 

+1 what Buck said about the TO not the loading strip

[Anvil Al #59168]

Philly, while I"m not a bettin' man, if I were, I'd bet that you simply caught the TO essentially with his britches down. Based upon what he had been told, not what he has read, he thought it was a rule, so he told you. When you pointed out that it was actually a non-rule, instead of sucking it up and admitting that he was wrong, he made it up that it's a club rule. If it wasn't announced at the shooter's meeting and the club is claiming to be using SASS rules, it ain't a rule. I can provide witnesses to the fact that non-rules go over like a lead balloon with me. I can attest to the fact that people don't like it when they're wrong and some might attempt to put you in a bad light.

 

 

I bet you are correct. The TO just did not know the rules.

Got them mixed up that you can not have two LOADED pistols out at the same time.

 

I would have been curious enough to ask someone else like the MD, if this was a club rule.

But think he was just covering his tracks.

 

And if they SHOULD, bring it up at the shooters meeting if there is ANYTHING, differnt than regular SASS rules.

 

 

I know at the Bar 3 we have a No loading the SG on the move. Plant before you poke rule.

But it is covered at the shooters meeting at EVERY match.

 

 

But if at a club and they have different club rules. AND LET ME KNOW ABOUT THEM at the shooters meeting.

Then. It's there sandbox. I will play by them. And then after make up my mind to go back or not.

But never have ran into a club rule that would make me not want to shoot there.

[Anvil Al #59168]

I said if pistols are last, that isn't a requirement.

 

 

It's not a requirement at anytime. Could be pistols first. As long as one is shot dry.

 

Do it all the time. Shoot first pistol. Go to holster it while drawing and shooting 2nd. Don't hit the holster

just right with first pistol.

Rather that keep stabbing at it. Which would take my mind off of shooting the 2nd. Just hold it and finish the

2nd, and then holster both at the same time. Of course making sure the 1st is pointed down range.

 

I know one shooter that does it on every stage. Shoots first and holds it while shooting 2nd. He never even trys to

holster first pistol.

[Shooting Bull]

 

It's not a requirement at anytime. Could be pistols first. As long as one is shot dry.

 

Do it all the time. Shoot first pistol. Go to holster it while drawing and shooting 2nd. Don't hit the holster

just right with first pistol.

Rather that keep stabbing at it. Which would take my mind off of shooting the 2nd. Just hold it and finish the

2nd, and then holster both at the same time. Of course making sure the 1st is pointed down range.

 

I know one shooter that does it on every stage. Shoots first and holds it while shooting 2nd. He never even trys to

holster first pistol.

 

 

Very true. My reasoning for only doing it when pistols are last is that I find I can transition to either of the long guns faster if I've already holstered the 1st pistol rather than trying to holster both pistols at the same time.

[Anvil Al #59168]

Very true. My reasoning for only doing it when pistols are last is that I find I can transition to either of the long guns faster if I've already holstered the 1st pistol rather than trying to holster both pistols at the same time.

 

 

I was sure you already know that. But wanted to make sure anyone else reading it and not sure would

or some new duelist would know it is OK to do.

 

Like you. If pistols are last. I never reholster the first one.

And if not last. Holster the first to free that hand up for transitions.

But sometime we miss the holster a little.

And what Nuttin Graceful tells me. And I know to be true, at atleast for me.

Is to not keep trying to reholster it at that point, and miss with the 2nd pistol while

stabbing at trying to holster the first.

Just go ahead and hold it. Finish the 2nd and then holster.

But that is only when you miss the holster. (which I seen to do about once a match. )

[Cash Duckett]

Our club requires everyone to leave their loaded pistols on the loading table until called to the firing line. I learned this wasy, so it's automatic for me. Lots of shooters from other clubs get really upset and try to explain how this is not acceptable. Doesn't matter to me one way or another. Had a guy tell me once that is was a SASS requirment to holster loaded pistols and threatened to turn us in!

Cash

[Dubious Don #56333]

I shoot Double Duelist. If a stage calls for pistols last, it's a waste of time trying to holster my first pistol after firing it before drawing my second one. For that reason, when I've emptied the first pistol I simply bring it back into my body about hip level as I'm drawing my second pistol. (Yes, I keep the first one pointed safety down range)

 

Was recently at a match and did that on a stage. When I was done the Timer Operator informed me that I HAD to holster the first pistol before I was allowed to draw the second. I said if pistols are last, that isn't a requirement. He paused for a while and then said, "It's a club rule." I didn't ask if it was a rule of his SASS club or a rule of the facility where the match was being held. I thanked him for the info and went about the match.

 

So, how do you handle "club rules"?

 

 

The standard conventions provide for revolver(s) to be holstered at the "end of the shooting string" which would be after BOTH are fired so it is completely and perfectly acceptable under the SASS rules to do that thing you do. (Doesn't matter if they are last or not) Of course, there are still stage writers who are, lets just call them less enlightened, bound and determined for whatever reason to spell out every little action the shooter must take and write their stages specifically to prevent shooters from doing this.

 

Remember that "the rules" often depend on who's spouting them. They may not be "rules" only this particular RO's interpetation and he might be mistaken. In that case, he might be very happy to learn the "correct" rule. OTOH, he might be the former type and perhaps in that case it's best to let it go... (or shoot somewhere's else)

[crooked jake,4371]

I shoot Double Duelist. If a stage calls for pistols last, it's a waste of time trying to holster my first pistol after firing it before drawing my second one. For that reason, when I've emptied the first pistol I simply bring it back into my body about hip level as I'm drawing my second pistol. (Yes, I keep the first one pointed safety down range)

 

Was recently at a match and did that on a stage. When I was done the Timer Operator informed me that I HAD to holster the first pistol before I was allowed to draw the second. I said if pistols are last, that isn't a requirement. He paused for a while and then said, "It's a club rule." I didn't ask if it was a rule of his SASS club or a rule of the facility where the match was being held. I thanked him for the info and went about the match.

 

So, how do you handle "club rules"?

 

You know ,

 

If ya weren't fast this would have never come up......... :lol:

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Of course, there are still stage writers who are, lets just call them less enlightened, bound and determined for whatever reason to spell out every little action the shooter must take and write their stages specifically to prevent shooters from doing this.

 

 

With FIRST pistol such and such - Holster.

Then SECOND pistol such and such - Holster; Directions have been determined to be unenforcable and moot.

 

The directions would specifically disallow the Gunfighter category and available legal methods to shoot Duelist.

When I shot Duelist (and I shot DD, just like Philly), and currently as a Gunfighter, I simply ignore stage directions that are contrary to my category.

 

Eventually, stage writers will learn the correct phrasing...

if the pistol strings differ, with first 5 pistol rounds... do such and such. With second 5 pistol rounds...do such and such.

Or if the pistol string is continuous, using both pistols as needed...do such and such.

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

It's not a requirement at anytime. Could be pistols first. As long as one is shot dry.

 

Do it all the time. Shoot first pistol. Go to holster it while drawing and shooting 2nd. Don't hit the holster

just right with first pistol.

Rather that keep stabbing at it. Which would take my mind off of shooting the 2nd. Just hold it and finish the

2nd, and then holster both at the same time. Of course making sure the 1st is pointed down range.

 

I know one shooter that does it on every stage. Shoots first and holds it while shooting 2nd. He never even trys to

holster first pistol.

 

[Shooting Bull]

When I shot Duelist (and I shot DD, just like Philly)

 

 

No, my bet would be that when you shot Duelist you shot much BETTER than Philly.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

PS,

If that club allows gunfighter category, how do they have to holster?

 

I say no contest. The TO was wrong on both counts.

[Blastmaster]

I don't believe I've ever heard a club rule announced at any shooters meeting, but I hear about it during the stage.

 

I love it when someone brings their club rules to an away match and try to enforce it.

 

How do I handle it? Most rules are uniform but if there is something different I want to do ( load SG on the move if stage calls for movement), I will ask the RO before I start the stage. but then again, the RO may be stating his home club rules rather than the match club rules. Confusing and all kinds of room of misinterpetation.

[Goliath, SASS #41359]

Philly, while I"m not a bettin' man, if I were, I'd bet that you simply caught the TO essentially with his britches down. Based upon what he had been told, not what he has read, he thought it was a rule, so he told you. When you pointed out that it was actually a non-rule, instead of sucking it up and admitting that he was wrong, he made it up that it's a club rule.

 

Sounds like some answers I've been given in academe - "regents policy" has often been used to cover one's backside when no written rule can be produced - 'Politics is everwhar!'

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Our club requires everyone to leave their loaded pistols on the loading table until called to the firing line. I learned this wasy, so it's automatic for me. Lots of shooters from other clubs get really upset and try to explain how this is not acceptable. Doesn't matter to me one way or another. Had a guy tell me once that is was a SASS requirment to holster loaded pistols and threatened to turn us in!

Cash

 

I've seen that before, possibly there as well as another place or two. As long as it's announced at the shooter's meeting, so be it. If you want to mess with Dirty Dan Paladin, tell him someone said it was a hillbilly rule. When he asks who, tell him Hillbilly Buck D. Law...who is originally from Lowell, Arkansas (salute!) said so.

 

 

[Pitmaster, SASS #78461]

As much as we would like consistency with rules across the board, when attending a match you have never shot before it might not be a bad idea to ask if there are any local or club rules you need to be aware of. For those MD at local clubs that may have them it should be their responsibility to inform newcomers of them.

[Anvil Al #59168]

 

 

Nickols. Do you do that?????

 

Just so you know. You was not who I was talking about.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I didn't read all of the replies, so forgive me if this has been covered.

 

The thing to do would have been to say to the TO, "Just so everybody's on the same page, I'm gonna ask the MD why this is so, because I want to understand it."

 

Then do just that. If it turns out there is a club rule, you get to hear why, and you get to make the point that club rules need to be announced AHEAD OF TIME, not after the fact. If it is NOT a club rule, the MD gets the opportunity to educate his TO. That way YOU, as a shooter have done your part to insure even application of rules and proper notice of any existing club rules. Everybody wins.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

No, my bet would be that when you shot Duelist you shot much BETTER than Philly.

 

 

I don't know about that.

A year, six months ago... Maybe just maybe, I might have had something I could have taught you.

 

After the last match I saw you shoot?

I'm pretty happy to not have to run against you every match.

[Max Montana, SASS #23907]

Local rules? I follow them. The first time I shoot at a new range, I make a point to ask about range rules. I even ask about loading and unloading table procedures. I've found it's easier to ask then put yourself or someone else on the spot to 'splain later. I have ran into some unusual range rules, but I follow them or I don't shoot and that ain't happenin'!

[Shooting Bull]

I don't know about that.

A year, six months ago... Maybe just maybe, I might have had something I could have taught you.

 

After the last match I saw you shoot?

I'm pretty happy to not have to run against you every match.

 

 

Well thank you. I appreciate that. I really do. But please don't ever stop watching my transitions or how I cycle the rifle or how I move from position to position or........................Well, you get the idea.

[Nichols Creek, SASS #77627]

Nickols. Do you do that?????

 

Just so you know. You was not who I was talking about.

Yes, all the time..and have been questioned on it a time or two, just tell the TO that the first was empty before the second was drawn and go about my business. And I know you werent talking bout me, just thought i would chime in.

[Complicated Lady]

Our club requires everyone to leave their loaded pistols on the loading table until called to the firing line. I learned this wasy, so it's automatic for me. Lots of shooters from other clubs get really upset and try to explain how this is not acceptable. Doesn't matter to me one way or another. Had a guy tell me once that is was a SASS requirment to holster loaded pistols and threatened to turn us in!

Cash

This is one of the "rules" I thought of when I read the original post. The club where I first learned to shoot, a shooter holsters their guns as soon as they load them even if they are the fourth shooter in line. So that is what I thought we were "supposed" to do. Once I started shooting at other clubs I realized that many places they wait until they are the next shooter up. THAT is now what I do no matter where I am shooting. I can see the reasoning behind that even if it not really a "rule".

We have now shot at 14 different clubs. I watch to see how the locals do things while making sure I always follow SASS rules of course.

If a club has "extra" rules.... I have no problem with that as long as it's made known in a kind way and up front.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

So, CL if you are 4th in line you are gonna shuffle your pistols down the table 3 times before holstering? Why? Just 3 more chances for something bad to happen. WAY too much handling. The Judge hisownself has said that the proper place for the loaded pistols is safely ensconced in their holsters. For the life of me I cannot understand why anyone would prefer all that shuffling.

 

2 years ago they instituted that silly non-rule at Comancheria Days 09. I griped about it loud and long. Told 'em I would not be back for CD 10 if that non-rule would be in force. Maybe others griped about it too. Be that as it may, the committee decided it was an unnecessary hindrance and rescinded it for CD 10. Don't know if they had it this year as I could not afford to attend but I doubt it. If I know in advance a club has this non-rule I will not travel there.

[Cash Duckett]

Lone Dog, I see your point, but you won't see 4 people at our loading tables at once, they ain't that big. I didn't make this rule for my club, it was in effect before I came around. I guess I have "shuffled" my guns a few times, pistols and long guns, and somehow I've pulled it off without a hitch. What I have seen is people loading pistols, holstering them, and walking to the restroom or to their gun cart or wherever. I don't want to be around when someone drops their drawers with loaded pistols. When I shoot elswhere, I do as asked and be careful not to leave the area. It doesn't mean a thing to me, I just follow the rules wherever I'm at. Just sayin, different strokes for different cowpokes.

Cash

[Jack Houston # 35508]

I've seen at least 2 clubs that have a "Rule" that all shotgun shells loaded in the gun "Must" be shot" you can't shuck a shell on the ground! I haven't been back there!

[Utah Bob #35998]

For some people, it's easier to make up a club rule than admit you were wrong.

 

Yeah, that's it. It's a club rule!

(I'm thinking of Jon Lovitz as a TO)