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Wardrobe malfunction...What's the call


Slick Derringer

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Up here Where a breeze is 25 MPH. and a slight wind is 40 MPH.and Windy is anything above 55 MPH. lot's of hat go sailing ,,,,, NO CALL !!!

 

Jabez Cowboy

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RRR's post of the 97 spiked my memory of this situation from a few years back. The "hard ass" TO was sure it was a P. And didn't want

 

to hear otherwise. But the other 2 spotters and I went through the chain of command to get it turned into a no call. TO found a new posse

 

chore for the rest of the match.

 

Reason for OP= We never did find a definite answer for something like this other than, what we thought the correct call was.

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How about "idjit"?

Oh, man, I hurt myself laughing! Well played, DEW!

 

No call. Anybody who tries to P the shooter pulls steel by their lone-sum.

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Probably it was an RO interference, he knocked the hat with the timer....

 

The shooter is granted a reshoot! :D:D

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It's obvious that a very tall, very fast shooter in B Western dress should be shooting the stage scooting from one place to the next on his knees to avoid having his hat knocked off and to make it easier for the TO to keep up with him. ;)

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This happened about 2 years ago, shooting at a State Match in Midwest, "B" Western. The TO who was also the posse Marshal, was timing me. Started out in building, rifle, rifle down, move forward to haybales and shoot KDs, as I picked up shotgun and was shooting first target, the TO stepped hard on my spurs, (I think he jumped on them, actually lifting me up.)accidently, causing my second shot to miss. I put shotgun down on bale, with extruding pain, the spurs had gone up, cut my boot edge, tore skin, etc. He yelled for me to continue shooting, picked up shotgun and finished, hobbled over to pistol, and finished the pistol sequence. This was the last stage for the 2 day match. At the Motel taking my boot off, my socks were bloodied, big gash. The next morning was able to pull my boot on. At the beginning stage I informed the posse Marshal I could not get my spurs over my boot without pain. He informed me that since I was shooting "B" western I needed to wear spurs. MT

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don't know if it should be a penalty or not but with that kind of wisdom and judgement, they should be the next appointee to the Supreme Court.

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Shoot both pistols. Move to next position. Hat leaves head. Hat lands on the ground. (i.e. Shooter hits head while moving through door way) Shoot rifle then shoot

 

shotgun (of course, not wearing hat that fell to the ground)

 

Shooter receive a P ???

 

 

 

From shooter handbook

 

"CLASSIC COWBOY/COWGIRL

 

• Hats must be worn for the entire match

 

“B” WESTERN

 

• Hats must be worn"

 

From ROI page 25

 

"Procedural Penalties

 

• Failure to adhere to the guidelines of the category in which you are competing."

 

 

No way I'd give them a "P" for their hat falling off their head. Now if they failed to put a hat on or took it off on purpose that is another issue. I'd say the one who gave the shooter a "P" is being too anal.

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The snow induced cabin fever must be really severe up there in the far north. Either that or someone is having trouble finding places to dispose of the waste from the chicken farm and spreading it on the Wire.

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This happened about 2 years ago, shooting at a State Match in Midwest, "B" Western. The TO who was also the posse Marshal, was timing me. Started out in building, rifle, rifle down, move forward to haybales and shoot KDs, as I picked up shotgun and was shooting first target, the TO stepped hard on my spurs, (I think he jumped on them, actually lifting me up.)accidently, causing my second shot to miss. I put shotgun down on bale, with extruding pain, the spurs had gone up, cut my boot edge, tore skin, etc. He yelled for me to continue shooting, picked up shotgun and finished, hobbled over to pistol, and finished the pistol sequence. This was the last stage for the 2 day match. At the Motel taking my boot off, my socks were bloodied, big gash. The next morning was able to pull my boot on. At the beginning stage I informed the posse Marshal I could not get my spurs over my boot without pain. He informed me that since I was shooting "B" western I needed to wear spurs. MT

Arrgh!

 

First, He should have given you a reshoot. Physically impeding the shooter is obvious interference.

 

I'd have let you shoot without spurs or, at least, change category.

 

Regards,

 

Allie "who is starting the day with smoke coming out her ears over some of the mean calls on the Wire today" Mo

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Allie,

 

While I sympathize with the shooter and agree on the reshoot.

The issue of continuing with b-western or wearing spurs is a matter of rules.

They are VERY clear.

 

PWB had a sequence in a thread about handicapped persons that basically said yes we need to accomodate them BUT

clothing and equipment requirements still stand.

 

Perhaps with this injury the shooter Marshall Troop example might not continue.

But the Posse Marshall as incompetent as he was with regard to TOing the first day, is correct on the spurs issue.

It is hard.. But the rules is the rules.

 

As for the OP of this thread A Procedural for the hat being off should still be called as it is about rules.

Until the rule book has a section on the dynamics of a stage affecting rules we must call according to the rules.

We really need to have a "sh&% happens" rule.

 

I would estimate that most MDs would reverse the P, perhaps as it should be.

But the rules is the rules.

There is no room for interpreting the rules.

As I was beaten about he head and shoulder in the other thread.

 

Hacker

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Hat leaves head. Hat lands on the ground.

 

After competitor is completed shooting stage and all weapons are safe and time called, then TO picks up hat, hands to competitor, "Ye lost yer hat there, pardner." MUST BE PROPER ACCENT or TO gets the P.

 

--May substitute "Pilgrim".

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Allie,...As I was beaten about he head and shoulder in the other thread.

 

Hacker

:lol: Hi Hacker,

 

I've got calluses from that and I keep sticking my neck out on the Wire. I think I learn better after a good flogging. :o:unsure:;)

 

I did give the option of changing categories. However, I'd have a hard time forcing that on this one after the TO caused the problem and the shooter went most of the first day properly attired. After all, this is not a frivilous desire to not comply with costume requirements. Had the problem happened before the match, I would say, "if you cannot comply with the clothing requirements, you will need to select another category."

 

I'd really like to see what the ROC thinks about MT's case. This may be a case where it isn't feasible to list every possible accomodation.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

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Get real ,,,,,,,,,,,, Next thing some will want to call a "P" for a spur strap breaking on the run and falling off ....

 

Where is the addvantage in either event ................... Oh I know Ya can run faster with-out da hat on ,,,,, and the weight savings off loosing one spur makes you faster ....

 

I my opinion loosing either is a distraction ,,,, and slows the shooter down a mite ....

And I don't like shooting my 66 with-out my lid ......

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I'm aware of several instances where latitude in dress is allowed due to dissability or injury, sometimes long term or permanent, other times in a spot situation.

 

An example is lace up boots where a permanent dissability precludes the shooter from wearing the specified pull on boot. (If you would like an example, PM me and I'll give you one that is incontrovertable)

 

In Troop's case, if he was made to wear his spurs on an injured foot, he was done a serious and contemptable disservice. This is hard ass, (please excuse the explitive) to and beyond ANY reasonable limit.

 

I love this sport so much that I've shot wearing a serious prescribed back brace for several months so as not to miss the fun. If I was awarded a P for my hat blowing off or being knocked off during a stage it likely would be the last time I shot at that club, and I would make sure that everyone responsible was made aware of the reason. To award a procedural penalty for such an occurance is NOT the Cowboy Way and so far beyond petty as to defy definition!

 

Appologies for the RANT!

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.

I once finished a stage with my hat, stampede string, ear plug cord and shotgun butt pad lace all wrapped together in a ball. Don't know how I missed my scarf.

 

No P -- but extreme style points.

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Philly Slim,

We do NOT have a "stuff happens" rule that tells us how to make the calls. What is a "hard-ass" define it and how exactly to apply it.

Rules MUST be clear and concise that is not.

 

On interpreting rules.... Sir YOU are wrong again... RTBM RO 1 manual page 12

Watch for illegal equipment, ammunition or any category specific requirements and enforce the current SASS rules exactly as they are written. Do not attempt to interpret, either liberally or conservatively, any of the rules.

 

Marauder,

Great comment..... I do hate the tax code.... But what did you think about the airplane owner that flew the plane they wanted into the IRS building. Did you ever see the movie "day after tomorrow", I remember a scene when they are in the public library deciding what books to burn to stay alive, They argue about which to burn then someone finds a copy of the IRS tax codes and they immediately start burning them.

 

Blackwater Desperado,

I know that is hard but the rules are the rules.... Do you propose allowing the shooter to continue in a Spur required category without spurs.

Now you are breaking the rules by allowing one shooter to do something that others are not.

I remember the gist of what I consider to be a great PWB comment about not enforcingthe rules. Pity I cannot find it nor remember the details.

PWB also had a comment about dealing with handicaps (I would say for this example an injury certainly qualifies) that we would accomodate the situation as best we can but equipment, clothing and accessory rules stand without modification. Shoot in another category.

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Philly Slim,

We do NOT have a "stuff happens" rule that tells us how to make the calls. What is a "hard-ass" define it and how exactly to apply it.

 

Hard Ass

 

hard-ass   [hahrd-as]

–noun Slang: Vulgar .

a person who follows rules and regulations meticulously and enforces them without exceptions.

 

Example: Awarding a Procedural penalty for a shooter's hat falling off. ;)

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lets just say a timer operator

wanted to be that much of an a$$

 

if I was shooting b western er classic cowpoke

and he wanted to penalize me fer a hat blowing off

I would then

contend that its my prop malfunction

re-shoot

my hat is a required prop for those two shooting catagories,

it blew away / failed,,,,,git my point

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So Madd Mike to be a prop it would have to be used by all the shooters in the match in that stage.

Are you sure you want to share your hat?

 

Not a chance of it being a prop.

Now if the doorway collapsed that is a prop.

The thing on the front of old airplanes is often referred to as a prop (not the same type).

 

 

On a more practical matter, I doubt most TOs know what category someone is shooting in except for gunfighter and buckeroo.

The clothing required categories are not easy to KNOW for certain.

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The snow induced cabin fever must be really severe up there in the far north. Either that or someone is having trouble finding places to dispose of the waste from the chicken farm and spreading it on the Wire.

Yep, hard to believe it has made it to page two. :blink: For someone to give a P for a wardrobe malfuntion (hat blow off, spur strap break, watch chain break, knife fall out..etc...) during a stage is a bit over the top. :wacko:

 

Jefro :ph34r:

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BJT,

 

If you did this in CC or BW, you would run afoul of the rules. The following is from P. 3 of the SHB, "ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television." As those categories have hat requirements and you were not wearing it appropriately, you would get a P on the first stage, a SDQ on the second, and a MDQ on the third (progressive penalty.)

 

It may just be my twisted way of thinking (or lack of a sense of humor); but, having the wind or a SG accidentially remove the hat is way different from flaunting the rules.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

In the old west and in B western movies I will be at least one hat got knocked off or the wind blew off at hat. Get serious folks.

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As a B Western shooter this feels a bit like a Rodney Dangerfield moment of no respect. Spurs, A felt hat in 90 degrees and humidity, a holster belt with 10 pounds of studs and Conchos, and non-grip enhanced boots, what is that RO trying to do kill the sport single handedly? I would consider stapling the hat to my head but hell that could be an external mod and I am not sure I can find staples that match the studs on my rig.

 

Wyatt Hurts

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So Madd Mike to be a prop it would have to be used by all the shooters in the match in that stage.

Are you sure you want to share your hat?

 

Not a chance of it being a prop.

Now if the doorway collapsed that is a prop.

The thing on the front of old airplanes is often referred to as a prop (not the same type).

 

 

On a more practical matter, I doubt most TOs know what category someone is shooting in except for gunfighter and buckeroo.

The clothing required categories are not easy to KNOW for certain.

 

if it (hat) is required, and fails (blows off), and some silly timer operator wants to give a P

I would only say it was (MY REquired) prop >>>>>>>>>>>>>>hence failure<<<<<<<<<<<<<>> fer fun<<

and lighten up the posse attitude a tadd bit

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This happened about 2 years ago, shooting at a State Match in Midwest, "B" Western. The TO who was also the posse Marshal, was timing me. Started out in building, rifle, rifle down, move forward to haybales and shoot KDs, as I picked up shotgun and was shooting first target, the TO stepped hard on my spurs, (I think he jumped on them, actually lifting me up.)accidently, causing my second shot to miss. I put shotgun down on bale, with extruding pain, the spurs had gone up, cut my boot edge, tore skin, etc. He yelled for me to continue shooting, picked up shotgun and finished, hobbled over to pistol, and finished the pistol sequence. This was the last stage for the 2 day match. At the Motel taking my boot off, my socks were bloodied, big gash. The next morning was able to pull my boot on. At the beginning stage I informed the posse Marshal I could not get my spurs over my boot without pain. He informed me that since I was shooting "B" western I needed to wear spurs. MT

 

 

Hmmmm. I don't think there's a requirement to wear spurs On Your Boots.

 

B Western:

"Western spurs with rowels are required for men"

 

You coulda hung em on your belt. That would show the jerk. :lol:

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