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A rule change at Convention that may cause heartburn with many of you...


Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381

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Posted

As of January 1, all of us ROII types can no longer teach ROI classes unless a ROIII (black badge) is in attendance. Geographically, this will cause problems IMHO. We are going to need more ROIIIs. Send Hipshot an email if you are willing to step up and become a black badge. I try to support SASS, but I'm not sure I agree with this decision. I need to mull it over a bit.

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Posted

How many RO 3s are there total? How many in each state?

 

To me this new rule will DRASTICALLY reduce the opportunities to folks to take the RO1 class.

 

Less opportunity = less folks taking it. We need more folks RO1 and above trained, not less.

 

A large number of folks only shoot local matches and never make it to Winter Range, End of Trail, or even any of the regional where classes are likely to take place. And those that do may not be able to afford to spend the money to stay the extra days needed to do the classes.

 

Seems like if you want folks to know the rules, you want them to take the classes so making classes HARDER to find and attend don't make any sense.

 

Nope, don't agree with this as all.

 

JMO

 

Grizz

Posted

The good news is that more folks will have to take courses...and of course spend the MONEY to do so...and therefore...oh...nevermind...

 

:FlagAm:

 

Always cracked me up...that I'd be shooting with China Camp at WR or EOT...and he wasn't even a ROI...

 

:D

Posted
As of January 1, all of us ROII types can no longer teach ROI classes unless a ROIII (black badge) is in attendance. Geographically, this will cause problems IMHO. We are going to need more ROIIIs. Send Hipshot an email if you are willing to step up and become a black badge. I try to support SASS, but I'm not sure I agree with this decision. I need to mull it over a bit.

 

This was done to gain control of what is being taught. There are many ROIIs out there that do a really good job of teaching the RO I course. They stay on top of the changes, and actually do their homework before teaching a class. There are also many ROIIs that do a really poor job of teaching the RO I course. They don't have a clue about changes or clairifications to the rules. They propagate their Own version of the rules and simply DON'T TEACH the course material correctly. This is a problem that is way overdue for correction. There is an ongoing effort to get all instruction standardized. It is time to exercise more control over whom is allowed to teach this very important class. There is a new Power Point that will be made available to those who teach the RO I course. It is expected to be of great assistance to the instructor. I expect that this change will add to the existing number of RO instructors in SOME AREAS. I also expect to see a few RO instructors retire from the or be retired from the program. All RO instructors will be required to recertify on a annual or bi-annual basis. This action was supported by virtually all of the RO instructors. A list of RO instructors will be made available on the wire so that any club in need of a class can contact an instructor that covers their area. Instructors are expected to travel, but if there is no instructor available within your area, then someone will be appointed.

 

Rules inforcement, or the lack of it, is one of the biggest problems in the game..... in fact, it is the NUMBER ONE problem. The best way to approach correcting this is to provide the best instruction that we can for both the new shooter, and to those takeing a refresher course. The more members we have that actually know the rules, the more likely it will be that the rules are followed by EVERYONE. This should also really help to increase the pool of qualified people to act as T.O.

 

The fee for the RO I course is $10.... $5 goes to the club, and $5 goes to SASS to pay for the pin and the shipping. There is no charge for someone taking it as a refresher. This is a good thing for SASS. I would expect everyone who wants to play by the rules and see the rules fairly enforced would welcome this action.

 

Snakebite

Posted

If you live at the ends-of-the-earth as some of us do, you'd have to really be willing to step up financially to aspire to "black badge" instruction. Or your club would have to be awful willing to finance a visiting instructor.

Or, I guess, we could just shoot without benefit of a trained RO, at least, until attrition whittles us down to none. Then we shoot any old way we can.

 

See, I can always find something to bi... er, gripe about!

 

Trooper

Posted

think this is a good thing .....made the mistake of running a timer this year and the rules have changed a bunch since I had run a timer last......things are fine if a shooter doesn't screw up and ask ya what to do........so everyone will be on the same page when they are in that sittyation could be agood thing

 

I was just tryin to spell some RO's but surely did learn my lesson.........if yer not up to date ...don't be runnin a shooter

Posted

So if someone goes thru an ROI class and has it all down pat and then

things interfere with shooting for a while, the rules change and that rating is out of date.

Perhaps the pins should have a YEAR on them.

That way it would be an ROI(2008) pin and the shooter would know.

 

And maybe ONLINE refresher courses????

just sayin....

Best

CR

I know Im outta date, I know...NOW I know.

Posted
So if someone goes thru an ROI class and has it all down pat and then

things interfere with shooting for a while, the rules change and that rating is out of date.

Perhaps the pins should have a YEAR on them.

That way it would be an ROI(2008) pin and the shooter would know.

 

And maybe ONLINE refresher courses????

just sayin....

Best

CR

I know Im outta date, I know...NOW I know.

 

SASS DOES have on-line refesher courses every year :D All you have to do is come to this site, click on SASS Handbooks and READ any changes to the handbooks. They even made it easy by high-liting the changes :FlagAm:

Posted
If you live at the ends-of-the-earth as some of us do, you'd have to really be willing to step up financially to aspire to "black badge" instruction. Or your club would have to be awful willing to finance a visiting instructor.

Or, I guess, we could just shoot without benefit of a trained RO, at least, until attrition whittles us down to none. Then we shoot any old way we can.

 

See, I can always find something to bi... er, gripe about!

 

Trooper

 

 

Did you notice tis line?

 

".....but if there is no instructor available within your area, then someone will be appointed."

 

I don't think that there will be any less opportunity for anyone in a remote area to receive training.... in fact, there may well be an increased possibility of quality training if more instructors are appointed in these remote areas. I have noticed that several instructors often show up at the same matches in some of these remote areas. I don't think that it is unreasonable to require at least some coordination by both the instructor and the student to receive training. It should be available, but it is not within the scope of the program to deliver personal, hands on, training to every door step upon demand. It takes some coordinating. Utilizing the large area matches is a good way to get quality training and refresher training out to the membership. It is incumbent upon the shooter to make an effort to get the initial training, and to recognize when they ought to get refresher training. We are doing our best to make quality instruction available.

 

We receive many applications from people wanting to become RO instructors. Some are turned down.... not because the applicant is not qualified, but because there are already plenty of ready and willing RO instructors within the travel area. Just wanting a "Black Pin" is not reason enough to be certified as an instructor... there must be a need in your area. Many RO instructors find that there is NOT enough work in the area to keep their Instructor status current! There are also some "Black Pins" out there that are NOT teaching classes. We are in the process of updating our list of certified instructors that are actually teaching courses. Those instructors that are no longer instructing will be ask to remove their Black Pin. Right now there are some areas where the RO instructors aren't getting enough opportunities to teach. Many times a local RO II chooses to teaches an RO I class rather than utilize the local RO instructor. This is often a bad situation for both the instructor and the student, and it is going to change. If there is an RO instructor available, then they will be utilized. There is no good reason for not allowing the RO insructor to do he/her job..... when they are available. I've seen this happen before, and it often envolves some personal conflict or someone's EGO getting in the way. NOT GOOD. I hope to see an increase in the number of refresher courses in the near future. There have been many changes and clarification over the last few years that folks need to be made aware of, and a refresher class is a good way to learn new things and reinforce others. It is also very apparent that we need to spend some time directing our training at how to be a good Spotter and T.O. The Spotters in this game are some of the most important people at the match.... yet the compentency level of MANY spotters is far below what it should be. I see it at EVERY match I attend. Some one just wants to stand there and put up a finger now and then. They don't have a clue about the concentration that is involved to do a good job of spotting, they don't know the rules and they don't take the time to learn them, they talk and gab or spend their time being a cheer leader.... everything EXCEPT doing a good job of spotting. Next to a outright Cheater, there is nothing worse in this game than a incompetent Spotter or T.O. We hope to help out in this area by providing better training.

 

Snakebite

Posted
Good thing I tend not pay attention to Black Badges anyway.

 

 

I've heard that. :FlagAm::D

 

Snakebite

Posted
How many RO 3s are there total? How many in each state?

 

Lessee... Montana is the 4th largest state... it's 705 miles from the Idaho border to the North Dakota border on I90/I94... twelve to fifteen hours, depending on fuel stops, rest stops, and eats...

 

... we have ONE RO III.

Posted

Wouldn't it be nice to have a set of rules that were so simple, that multilevel instruction was not necessary in the first place...

 

Yeah, I know, I might as well wish for world peace while I'm at it. ;):(

Posted

Snakebite,

 

Was it ever considered that a viable solution be to have the RO1 and RO2 classes placed online?

That would make the testing be completely uniform with no exceptions.

That of course would necessitate actual training material being made available.

 

When I took the RO1 and RO2 classes I was unimpressed by the process.

Most persons know how to read. I don't need to have the rules read to me.

(Online I do ask what may appear to be goofy questions but they are meant to explore boundary areas.)

And when I take a class I expect more from the class than just reading the text.

I expect discussion, demos, now adays I expect videos etc.

 

 

Remember the cone of stupidity sorry cone of safety issue.

If half the effort to justify and explain that had been placed into making training material to show legal ways of drawing and holstering, there would have been ZERO reason to propose such a change to the SASS rules.

 

We should have videos of legal and illegal acts.

Good and bad TO.

Good and bad Spotting.

etc.

 

All the videos serve the shooters and the TO, RO1 and RO2s training wise.

 

Some clubs are lead by persons who don't want external persons coming in to teach classes and don't understand the mechanism of getting a class taught.

(More details available privately).

 

The other major problem is that some shooters don't really have a home club and are "nomadic" so getting the opportunity to attend an organized class is hit / miss.

While online training would be simpler and more consistent.

With RO1 and RO2 classes being taught at major events it is harder to get that opportunity as a nomad.

Being online would completely remove this problem.

Uniformity of teaching would be complete.

 

Also a online forum directed at rules discussions open to all would be a useful thing.

Some feel that the RO committee does what I call secret rules and rulings.

Being online would allow rulings to be disseminated quicker and more accurately.

The TG path is seriously flawed in this area and given nomads.

 

I think the change has the right incentive but the WRONG method of fixing the problem.

 

My 2 cents worth.

Hacker

Posted

I've taken the RO1 class, it was offered by one of the clubs I shoot at on a Saturday other than normal matches.

 

Since then, I've kind of kept my eyes open for an RO II class. The only ones I've seen have been at big matches that would require travel and overnight hotel stays.

 

The only one I could have attended was at a regional I went to, drove 15 hours to get there, paid big buck (for me) in gas, lodging, and expenses. The RO II class was held on side match day and would have meant I could not have shot the side matches. I chose to shoot side matches.

 

I say all this to make a point - with a reduced instructor pool, the remaining ones will be taxed and forced to choose between shooting side matches or teaching more than they already are now.

 

I can appreciate the intention, but just don't see this as an effective resolution.

 

Grizz

Posted
I've taken the RO1 class, it was offered by one of the clubs I shoot at on a Saturday other than normal matches.

 

Since then, I've kind of kept my eyes open for an RO II class. The only ones I've seen have been at big matches that would require travel and overnight hotel stays.

 

The only one I could have attended was at a regional I went to, drove 15 hours to get there, paid big buck (for me) in gas, lodging, and expenses. The RO II class was held on side match day and would have meant I could not have shot the side matches. I chose to shoot side matches.

 

I say all this to make a point - with a reduced instructor pool, the remaining ones will be taxed and forced to choose between shooting side matches or teaching more than they already are now.

 

I can appreciate the intention, but just don't see this as an effective resolution.

 

Grizz

 

Grizz. I'm sorry to hear that you have not been able to find a RO II class in all this time... just how long have you been looking for one? Do you have any idea how many folks in your area are wanting a class? It would be interesting to know if any RO II classes have been offered withing a reasonable distance from you. If you are a member of a local club, how did they get their RO II training? It sounds like you had the opportuity to take the class, but chose not to take it. Scheduling is often tough, and sometimes you must make choices.

 

Snakebite

Posted
Dumb

And Dumber. :( How hard would it be have a standard text that the RO II must follow when teaching the course?? :huh:

 

Well said Hacker "I think the change has the right incentive but the WRONG method of fixing the problem"

 

Jefro ;)

Posted

I have to agree with Hacker and Grizz.

 

Being fairly new to the game MAY cause some to wonder about my credibility to address this, but that is patently untrue. I have shot many disciplines over the years, and am a sticler for following rules. I have made a study of SASS rules since becoming involved with the game, and feel that I am pretty much on top of them, and their intended meaning. I do realize that it has to be an ongoing study, as changes happen all the time. So unless a concerted effort is made to keep up, then your knowledge becomes lacking.

 

I believe Hackers ideas and approach has much merit, and the idea of on-line teaching material, and making visual training available in the form of simple DVD's, thus allowing the training to be standardized and administered by local ROII's, a much better approach than the one they have approved.

 

I think they have shot theirself in the foot with this ruling, and rather than the intended result, it will instead result in SMALLER numbers of shooters seeking the ROI training and certification.

 

I know people pretty well, and the probability of their reaction to this. It's not likely to be positive.

 

My two coppers. RBK

Posted
And Dumber. :( How hard would it be have a standard text that the RO II must follow when teaching the course?? :huh:

 

Well said Hacker "I think the change has the right incentive but the WRONG method of fixing the problem"

 

Jefro ;)

 

 

Not really sure what you mean, as there are instructor guide manuals for both RO1 and RO2? These are available to all who desire to teach the course.

 

We appreciate that some of you are in areas that don't have an instructor right now, but one will be appointed from those in your area who show a desire to teach. One of the requirements for RO Instructors is to be willing to travel....always has been.

Posted

I resemble the Nomadic rider comment yet I have taken both RO I and RO II classes without experiencing too much difficulty. There have been at least three other opportunities since I took my classes at clubs within driving distance for this rider. Now I am sure in the far reaches of some state that is not so easy but is a process that can be worked through.

 

A benefit of the hombre who taught me was that he posts the new changes after the convention every year on at least two club websites and notices members or web subscribers whenever there is a major change that affects everyone. All I have to do is take time to read the information.

 

Online training is a really good idea, especially for a refresher, only there is no opportunity for questions for clarification like the formal sit down classes. Some folks learn easily online where others simply are not able to fully understand the material. Should the lecture be standardized and not just read out of the manual? Sure. Should Power Point or video be used? Sure.

 

There are a lot of good ideas that can be embraced so stay positive with solutions rather than complaints without because you don't like change.

 

JJ

Posted

The material is already on line right here on the SASS webpage. There will shortly be a Power Point available on line or maybe DVD that will provide guidance. As for folks not seeking training... that does not even make sense to me. Why would someone turn down the training if it were offered by an RO III instructor rather than an RO II who may or may not do a good job. The instructors will have at least been monitored to see that they meet compliance. Just because Ol Joe got his RO II pin many years ago does not necessarily make him qualified to teach others. That is one of the problems....... many of the Ol Joes are NOT QUALIFIED, yet are teaching the course, and doing it wrong! We need to correct that problem. I see guys teaching the RO I that are so out of touch with what the rules say or how they are interpreted that it makes me cringe. Sure.... its OK if you get someone who is good at the job.... the best way to ensure that is to require that all who teach have completed at least some minimum requirements.

 

Snakebite

Posted

Folks,

 

The issue, as Snakebite already stated is to gain control of the consistency and quality of the information being taught, and to make sure that we have instructors that have teaching ability, and do not simply read from the book.

 

Just because you have been teaching an RO I course as an RO II (not an instructor - ROII I) for several years, doesn't mean you are teaching the right things! Conversely I have seem some excellent RO IIs and RO IIIs (RO II Instructor) instructing courses, who know the books inside and out. I have also seen some RO II/II Instructors that should not be teaching, as they teach incorrect information and have lacking instructional skills.

 

If an RO II wishes to keep teaching courses, then simply get certified as an RO II Instructor. This is done by teaching RO1 with one of the RO Committee members present, or by someone who is approved by the committee to "certify" instructors. T

 

The vast majority of State and above matches will have RO courses being offered. If you have a desire, send Hipshot or any one of the committee members an email expressing an interest. If there is a need in your area due to geographical challenges you will be, absolutely, considered.

 

I know some of you have your opinions on this decision, and believe it to be the wrong one. However please understand that the committee is simply trying to fix a broken system....you are all volunteers and we know that. Yet we are trying to improve the quality of the RO courses, and the manner in which they are taught.

 

Please try to work with us in this regard....and get yourself to a larger match where you can take the course, or even teach the course and get certified as an instructor.

 

Posted
I resemble the Nomadic rider comment yet I have taken both RO I and RO II classes without experiencing too much difficulty. There have been at least three other opportunities since I took my classes at clubs within driving distance for this rider. Now I am sure in the far reaches of some state that is not so easy but is a process that can be worked through.

 

A benefit of the hombre who taught me was that he posts the new changes after the convention every year on at least two club websites and notices members or web subscribers whenever there is a major change that affects everyone. All I have to do is take time to read the information.

 

Online training is a really good idea, especially for a refresher, only there is no opportunity for questions for clarification like the formal sit down classes. Some folks learn easily online where others simply are not able to fully understand the material. Should the lecture be standardized and not just read out of the manual? Sure. Should Power Point or video be used? Sure.

 

There are a lot of good ideas that can be embraced so stay positive with solutions rather than complaints without because you don't like change.

 

JJ

 

Jailhouse Jim!

 

You make some very good comments. I am working on the RO 1 Power Point as we speak. We hope to have it posted online before the end of March 2011.

 

You said it very well "There are a lot of good ideas that can be embraced so stay positive with solutions rather than complaints without because you don't like change."

Posted
Snakebite,

 

Was it ever considered that a viable solution be to have the RO1 and RO2 classes placed online?

That would make the testing be completely uniform with no exceptions.

That of course would necessitate actual training material being made available.

 

When I took the ROI and ROII classes I was unimpressed by the process.

Most persons know how to read. I don't need to have the rules read to me.

(Online I do ask what may appear to be goofy questions but they are meant to explore boundary areas.)

And when I take a class I expect more from the class than just reading the text.

I expect discussion, demos, now adays I expect videos etc.

 

 

Remember the cone of stupidity sorry cone of safety issue.

If half the effort to justify and explain that had been placed into making training material to show legal ways of drawing and holstering, there would have been ZERO reason to propose such a change to the SASS rules.

 

We should have videos of legal and illegal acts.

Good and bad TO.

Good and bad Spotting.

etc.

 

All the videos serve the shooters and the TO, RO1 and RO2s training wise.

 

Some clubs are lead by persons who don't want external persons coming in to teach classes and don't understand the mechanism of getting a class taught.

(More details available privately).

 

The other major problem is that some shooters don't really have a home club and are "nomadic" so getting the opportunity to attend an organized class is hit / miss.

While online training would be simpler and more consistent.

With RO1 and RO2 classes being taught at major events it is harder to get that opportunity as a nomad.

Being online would completely remove this problem.

Uniformity of teaching would be complete.

 

Also a online forum directed at rules discussions open to all would be a useful thing.

Some feel that the RO committee does what I call secret rules and rulings.

Being online would allow rulings to be disseminated quicker and more accurately.

The TG path is seriously flawed in this area and given nomads.

 

I think the change has the right incentive but the WRONG method of fixing the problem.

 

My 2 cents worth.

Hacker

 

Hacker,

Thanks for your thoughts. You make some good points, and I agree that online training is very valuable....but for those generations who grew up with computers......

 

The average age of cowboy shooters, I have been told is around 57 years ols, and many of our folks don't even care, or are able, to have internet access. It would be difficult to limit this to online. The information is already available to ANYONE who wants to download it from the SASS website....Shooters Handbook, ROI and ROII course manual. Despite being available on line, it is sad to have to tell you, most folks don't want to take the time to do it.

 

I have been an instructor in the Air Force and airline industry for some 25 years now....and I can assure you that NOTHING beats what we called "chalk and talk".....nothing beats a classroom with a good instructor. You have the ability to discuss and clarify MUCH more in person, and directly, than you can online. Having been subject to CBT (computer based training) for many years, I can assure you of that.

Posted
Hacker,

Thanks for your thoughts. You make some good points, and I agree that online training is very valuable....but for those generations who grew up with computers......

 

The average age of cowboy shooters, I have been told is around 57 years ols, and many of our folks don't even care, or are able, to have internet access. It would be difficult to limit this to online. The information is already available to ANYONE who wants to download it from the SASS website....Shooters Handbook, RO1 and RO2 course manual. Despite being available on line, it is sad to have to tell you, most folks don't want to take the time to do it.

 

I have been an instructor in the Air Force and airline industry for some 25 years now....and I can assure you that NOTHING beats what we called "chalk and talk".....nothing beats a classroom with a good instructor. You have the ability to discuss and clarify MUCH more in person, and directly, than you can online. Having been subject to CBT (computer based training) for many years, I can assure you of that.

 

 

Amen to that.... I taught Radar, A & B schools as well as a number of basic schools for the Navy...... Nothing beats face to person instruction.

 

Snakebite

Posted

Let me review to be sure I understand what is going on. ROIIIs now are the instructors. So...wait for it...what is the difference between an ROI and an ROII, other than title?

 

To be blunt, this whole multiple layer of certifications and training seems to be completely out of step with what we're doing. For Pete's sake, this is a GAME. I can understand requiring ROI (whatever that may entail) to be a posse marshall/RO for a Regional or above match, and a good thing to encourage at ALL levels. I can understand ROII (whatever that may entail) to be the instructor for ROI. But then add another level? We're taking ourselves way too seriously, don't you think?

 

Thank you, RO Committee for what you do (no sarcasm intended). But I think someone, somewhere needs to step back and take a look at the BIG picture.

 

Steeldust Dan

Posted
Good thing I tend not pay attention to Black Badges anyway.

+1... The two worst calls that I've ever seen made were at Regionals where I was posse'd with a Black Badge PM. Sorry, but both had been argued out to KAZOO here on the SASS WAHR and they were lay-ups.

 

The truth is that SNAKEBITE and BLACKJACK ZAK are absolutely correct; SASS is desperate for standardizing the ROIII course, exam and teaching. It won't be done overnight. It's a MAMMOTH undertaking. It won't be complete until the books themselves are re-written into a single SASS MANUAL.

 

These can all be SUPPORTED with online/ video/ etc. But, CBT can only be taken so far, like as a refresher or as a re-qualifier. It just doesn't replace class-time- even poor class time with hands-on.

 

I for one am pleased to see that the organization recognizes the severe need for it and the RO Commitee is rising to the call. My hat is off to them because it won't be easy. They're going to take quite a load of crap before it's done.

 

After all- who better than us WAHR PECKERWOODS to criticise every attempt to move it forward? :(

Posted

A bigger issue than the quality of training is the number of shooters trained. The recent mandate will make this worse IMHO. Many shooters do not attend major matches where RO I and II classes are held. There needs to be some way to have some form of at least minimum training for these shooters. Some form of initial or early video/internet training would sure seem to make sense to me. We also need some way to get existing RO I and II members updated. These folks do not usually attend refresher classes. As a result they are making decisions based on how they were taught years ago. This could be remedied with some form of video and or internet training for refresher needs.

Posted

For instructional purposes, to reduce litigation and liability SASS should have a standardized curriculum with Lesson Plans or Lesson Training Guides that MUST be used by all Instructors. There is MUST present information and then there is Instructor input to elaborate and explain. There should be continual comprehension checks and a written exam to determine the absorbed knowledge of the student/RO Instructor Trainer. Further there should be a specific period of time that new RO's should be required to Intern under senior RO's, this internship should be documented and only after completing their internship should be considered certified RO's.

 

IMHO of course............

 

Doc

Posted

I think SASS is going about this the wrong way. There seem to be several issues they would like to address, 1) to make sure that the training for ROs is uniform 2) to make sure that it reflects the most current rule changes 3) to make sure that the training is of high quality.

 

 

I think as long as the training is left to individual trainers (no matter their knowledge or skill) there will be variations. If SASS wants to achieve the above goals they need to put together an online class, complete with a filmed lecture, an online chat where students can ask questions and on line exams. This would insure that every RO (no matter of what level) is trained exactly the same way; would allow students to take the class no matter where they are; and, allow them to be offered more regularly. It would also place the fees for the classes directly into the coffers of SASS. Universities and colleges have been doing classes like this for years.

 

As for the need for highly trained ROs, it reflects the ever increasing complexity of rules, which I believe is a serious factor in (or possibly just a symptom of) SASS's decline. Just my thoughts after 23 years of shooting SASS.

Posted

Hello All,

 

You all make good points....thanks for taking the time. I would like to address them not in any specific order, and give a response.

 

1. GCK: "A bigger issue than the quality of training is the number of shooters trained. The recent mandate will make this worse IMHO. Many shooters do not attend major matches where RO I and II classes are held. There needs to be some way to have some form of at least minimum training for these shooters. Some form of initial or early video/internet training would sure seem to make sense to me. We also need some way to get existing RO I and II members updated. These folks do not usually attend refresher classes. As a result they are making decisions based on how they were taught years ago. This could be remedied with some form of video and or internet training for refresher needs."

We are trying to improve the quality of the training being given by introducing a power point presentation for the ROI and II courses. Shooters don't need to attend a major match to get a course - they can get them in their own small clubs. Many instructors stand up at their own clubs and ask who would like a course - few or none see the need for themselves personally to take the course.....this is sad, regardless of what some of you think. we can't force folks to take the course, but we can improve the quality of the courses for those who desire to take the course. Video and internet is a good idea, but do you really think that a person who can't be bothered to download the ROI/II manual and read it would likely take the time to take an online course? It is a matter of personal conviction....

 

2. DOC: "For instructional purposes, to reduce litigation and liability SASS should have a standardized curriculum with Lesson Plans or Lesson Training Guides that MUST be used by all Instructors. There is MUST present information and then there is Instructor input to elaborate and explain. There should be continual comprehension checks and a written exam to determine the absorbed knowledge of the student/RO Instructor Trainer. Further there should be a specific period of time that new RO's should be required to Intern under senior RO's, this internship should be documented and only after completing their internship should be considered certified RO's."

 

We do have standardized curriculum, with an instructors guide, which is required to be followed. This does not mean read out loud.....that is why we need to have better instructors that can teach the material without simply reading it. There is a test at the end of each course. We require that a shooter be an ROII for sometime before they apply to be an instructor, and they must be supported by several letters of recommendation from their peers. This is never a fool proof system, but it is the best we have for now. We are working on cleaning up and improving the manuals also. Furthermore, EVERY RO3 (instructor) needs to renew their qualification every 2 years. If someone has not been teaching for several years, their qualification will expire. We are looking at posting, on the general wire, a list of CURRENT instructors so everyone can find a course or an instructor that is willing to go to their club and give the courses they need.

3. Steeldust Dan: "To be blunt, this whole multiple layer of certifications and training seems to be completely out of step with what we're doing. For Pete's sake, this is a GAME. I can understand requiring ROI (whatever that may entail) to be a posse marshall/RO for a Regional or above match, and a good thing to encourage at ALL levels. I can understand ROII (whatever that may entail) to be the instructor for ROI. But then add another level? We're taking ourselves way too seriously, don't you think?"

Never wishing to be blunt back to some good comments, but yes we believe that having certifications in a SHOOTING sport is rather important. We are not introducing another layer of certifications, as the RO III (Instructor certification) has been around for many years. We are simply trying to regain control of the information being taught out there, but everyone....there are some very good instructors our there who are NOT RO III qualified...but should be! And we want them if they are willing to travel a little do the job! The system, despite what you think, is very broke, and we are trying to fix it.

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