A rule change at Convention that may cause heartburn with many of you...

[Madd Mike #8595]

So... black 'pin' sounds kinda.. hummm... well ya know... not that there's anything wrong with that... ahemmmm.

 

So.. what is a black badge in SASS then?

 

w0w

 

huge difference

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Howdy Buck, To answer Your question, It's a Black Pin, ( Just like Your Yellow and Orange ones ) Not a Black Badge

Wimpy

 

That makes sense. I've seen those.

 

Now, how does someone go about becoming ROIII certified?

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

So.. what is a black badge in SASS then?

 

(As I sit in class with my wiggling hand raised and frantically yelling “Pick me! Pick me!” because I know that one.)

 

If you win EOT, you get a black badge. I beleive I remember seeing Longhunter wearing one in a Cowboys episode...and the more I type, the more I begin to question myself. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe. Do I get extra credit?

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

(As I sit in class with my wiggling hand raised and frantically yelling “Pick me! Pick me!” because I know that one.)

 

If you win EOT, you get a black badge. I beleive I remember seeing Longhunter wearing one in a Cowboys episode...and the more I type, the more I begin to question myself. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe. Do I get extra credit?

Is that an answer or a new question?

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Is that an answer or a new question?

 

Now we're playing Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader? If you win EOT, you get a black badge. Final answer .... if it's one of the first questions and the dollars are minimal. If large dollars are involved, I'm checking with a classmate first. Can I pick my classmate? I choose Bud.

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

(As I sit in class with my wiggling hand raised and frantically yelling “Pick me! Pick me!” because I know that one.)

 

If you win EOT, you get a black badge. I beleive I remember seeing Longhunter wearing one in a Cowboys episode...and the more I type, the more I begin to question myself. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe. Do I get extra credit?

 

Don't know if the actually get one...I do know that they used to just paint them black.

 

[Deacon Will]

QUESTION: Why do we have a separate ROI AND a ROII? Why not ONE Range Officer Course. Why do we need 2? Why can't they be condensed into one course?

[Whiney Henry Yoho SASS #19832]

QUESTION: Why do we have a separate ROI AND a ROII? Why not ONE Range Officer Course. Why do we need 2? Why can't they be condensed into one course?

 

(1) Range Operations and Basic Safety Course Leval I is what it implies

( this instructs new or or maybe not so new shooters in all aspects of whats going on at a match )

All the duties, all the basic safety rules ( I personally believe this course is the most importantant of the two offered ( Just my opinion )

(2) This is a Range Officers Course Level II

( it covers stage design, writing stages ) when You complete it You do recieve a certificate that say's You have become a Range Officer along with Your Orange pin

Wimpy

[Capt. George Baylor SASS#24287L]

That makes sense. I've seen those.

 

Now, how does someone go about becoming ROIII certified?

 

Go back and read my first post on this thread. It'll give you the basics. Just remember, if it was easy, anyone could do it.

 

QUESTION: Why do we have a separate ROI AND a ROII? Why not ONE Range Officer Course. Why do we need 2? Why can't they be condensed into one course?

 

Each one is 4 hours and is pretty condensed already. I sure don't recommend even trying to take both in the same day. You need to get experience as an RO1 for several months before taking ROII if you want to get anything out ot it.

[Dalton Masterson, SASS #51139]

Because, as stated earlier in the post, RO1 is NOT Range Officer 1, it is Range Operations 1.

RO2 is the Range Officer class.

DM

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Go back and read my first post on this thread. It'll give you the basics. Just remember, if it was easy, anyone could do it.

 

For anyone that would care to take a look, here's a link to the post.

 

I don't claim to be anyone, simply somebody who has seen enough life to know that many who claim they want to put out the forest fire... fail to see the forest for the trees. In this case, in order to become an ROIII, it appears one must have been a TG. To me, that follows the same logic that an officer's field performance would relate directly to where he finished in his class. I guess Grant (middle in class) didn't get the memo and Lee (1st in class) did? What about Custer who finished last in his class?

 

To elaborate a bit, I asked the question in an effort to raise the veil on what seems to be a secret society. Perhaps if it wasn't a secret society... it wouldn't be such a secret... and there would be more ROIIIs, more teachers available, and as a result more ROIIs and ROIs and there would be less problems at a match simply because more people would know and understand the rules. Of course, I might be misunderstanding the whole system. Perhaps if it was more transparent, I (and others) might have a better understanding.

 

Next question: Is a ROII instructor the same as an ROIII or is it the in-between? I know, I'll ask Sawyer. I've attended his shooting school and can only imagine how interesting his B' S'ing school would be.

 

Are we playing I've Got a Secret or are we trying to improve CAS?

[Whiney Henry Yoho SASS #19832]

For anyone that would care to take a look, here's a link to the post.

 

I don't claim to be anyone, simply somebody who has seen enough life to know that many who claim they want to put out the forest fire... fail to see the forest for the trees. In this case, in order to become an ROIII, it appears one must have been a TG. To me, that follows the same logic that an officer's field performance would relate directly to where he finished in his class. I guess Grant (middle in class) didn't get the memo and Lee (1st in class) did? What about Custer who finished last in his class?

 

To elaborate a bit, I asked the question in an effort to raise the veil on what seems to be a secret society. Perhaps if it wasn't a secret society... it wouldn't be such a secret... and there would be more ROIIIs, more teachers available, and as a result more ROIIs and ROIs and there would be less problems at a match simply because more people would know and understand the rules. Of course, I might be misunderstanding the whole system. Perhaps if it was more transparent, I (and others) might have a better understanding.

 

Next question: Is a ROII instructor the same as an ROIII or is it the in-between? I know, I'll ask Sawyer. I've attended his shooting school and can only imagine how interesting his B' S'ing school would be.

 

Are we playing I've Got a Secret or are we trying to improve CAS?

 

Howdy Buck ! Wimpy here...

I believe the term ROIII is not really accurate.. It's an RO II instructor ( Now I may be wrong on that ? )

And I also believe ( and could be wrong here too ? )

But back in the years past, when RO courses and TG's were just in the beginning of forming, so ta' speak.

I think the requirement for a TG to be RO II certiified was to kind of ensure that all the SASS clubs had someone

available to teach the RO I course. ( at least this seemed logically to me ? )

I could say more, but I just wanted to address Your' question.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Howdy Buck ! Wimpy here...

I believe the term ROIII is not really accurate.. It's an RO II instructor ( Now I may be wrong on that ? )

And I also believe ( and could be wrong here too ? )

But back in the years past, when RO courses and TG's were just in the beginning of forming, so ta' speak.

I think the requirement for a TG to be RO II certiified was to kind of ensure that all the SASS clubs had someone

available to teach the RO I course. ( at least this seemed logically to me ? )

I could say more, but I just wanted to address Your' question.

Hi Wimpy,

 

That is what I thought also until I read Chuckroo's minutes from the summit and he called them ROIII (not ROII Instructor). Maybe someone will set us straight.

 

It is my understanding that only an RO committee or Wild Bunch member may certify a ROIII (ROII Instructor).

 

 

Allie

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Hi Wimpy,

 

That is what I thought also until I read Chuckroo's minutes from the summit and he called them ROIII (not ROII Instructor). Maybe someone will set us straight.

 

It is my understanding that only an RO committee or Wild Bunch member may certify a ROIII (ROII Instructor).

 

Allie

 

ROIII (aka RO3) = ROII (Range Officer Course, aka RO2) Instructor

The first two "I"s = Roman numeral "2"

The 3^rd "I" = Instructor

 

Captain Baylor describes the process for becoming an ROII Instructor (Black PIN) in post #86

Applications are available from SASS HQ (Contact Hipshot)

 

RO3 is also sometimes used as a reference to the mythical "Common Sense" rulebook.

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Maybe I should just wear a sign that says "Will teach RO for food." Of course, since I'm a RO2 and not a RO3, I can only teach RO1. Since every time that I recall RO classes being taught near me, the instructor was teaching both RO1 followed by RO2, it appears to me that the demand for RO instructors is limited to those (very few) folks who are RO3s. So, I guess you shouldn’t look for me coming soon to a range near you.

 

I still don’t know if you must have been a TG in order to be a RO3. Is it required…or do you just get extra points like military experience gets you with a civil service job application? I do understand that a TG should be (at least) a RO2. Thanks to Whiney and anyone else who has attempted to explain.

 

I've about decided that either:

1) I'm the only person who is such a dumbass that what has been written thus far is not clear (that’s possible)

2) I'm the only person who cares how a person would begin the process and follow it through to completion (unlikely)

3) I'm the only person who will chance appearing to be a dumbass (likely)

 

Should I ever, even years from now, attain a complete understanding of the entire process, I promise to write clear instructions on the process of becoming a RO3. I understand that the process is not easy, but I can’t imagine why the instructions can’t be clear…and once it’s done, why not put them in the Range Officer Training Course (Level II), aka ROII, aka RO2?

 

If the goal is more knowledgeable shooters, I think a good beginning would be to make it easier to take the courses and a step in that process would be to increase the number of people available to teach. Perhaps making it clearer what steps would need to be taken to become an instructor is the real beginning.

 

If it’s really necessary to be a martyr in order to become a RO3, if you can catch me, you are welcome to hold me down, take off my boots and stomp the toes…of the boots, not mine.

 

Okay, tongue out of cheek: Palewolf, you are top notch when it comes to explaining things clearly, but I think it might be possible that your understanding of the process makes it seem that what has been written should be abundantly clear to the rest of us… when it actually is not. It might be just me, if so, would you please lay it out… for me?

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Hellfire;

 

This is My answer I have tried to jump through the Hoops ,,,,,,, But it seems they are on the move ...

I have been teaching proper "Spotting" both by excample and by Vocal instruction (hints) ...

I ran the timer for the last shoot we had for all the shooters (talk about exhausting) but now I can't teach folks to relieve me ????

Cause I ain't good enough ........

 

 

 

I took my RO II about 5 years ago and I have sat in on and been a Active partisipant 3 times to refresh my Knowledge ,,,,,,, But I am not sure I know a "Black Pin" and I have never seen the RO III course offered .....

 

I have attended Every Canadian SASS REGIONAL ever held ,,,,,,,,,,,,, But now I think My efforts have been waisted .....

 

I have Jumped though the SASS hoops to no end ....

 

I don't think I will bother futher ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

When I took My RO II the first time the course was Co- Taught by our TG and "Tex" badge #4 ....

But I didn't see NO Black Pin on Tex at that time ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Oklahomabound]

Maybe I should just wear a sign that says "Will teach RO for food." Of course, since I'm a RO2 and not a RO3, I can only teach RO1. Since every time that I recall RO classes being taught near me, the instructor was teaching both RO1 followed by RO2, it appears to me that the demand for RO instructors is limited to those (very few) folks who are RO3s. So, I guess you shouldn’t look for me coming soon to a range near you.

 

I still don’t know if you must have been a TG in order to be a RO3. Is it required…or do you just get extra points like military experience gets you with a civil service job application? I do understand that a TG should be (at least) a RO2. Thanks to Whiney and anyone else who has attempted to explain.

 

I've about decided that either:

1) I'm the only person who is such a dumbass that what has been written thus far is not clear (that’s possible)

2) I'm the only person who cares how a person would begin the process and follow it through to completion (unlikely)

3) I'm the only person who will chance appearing to be a dumbass (likely)

 

Should I ever, even years from now, attain a complete understanding of the entire process, I promise to write clear instructions on the process of becoming a RO3. I understand that the process is not easy, but I can’t imagine why the instructions can’t be clear…and once it’s done, why not put them in the Range Officer Training Course (Level II), aka ROII, aka RO2?

 

If the goal is more knowledgeable shooters, I think a good beginning would be to make it easier to take the courses and a step in that process would be to increase the number of people available to teach. Perhaps making it clearer what steps would need to be taken to become an instructor is the real beginning.

 

If it’s really necessary to be a martyr in order to become a RO3, if you can catch me, you are welcome to hold me down, take off my boots and stomp the toes…of the boots, not mine.

 

Okay, tongue out of cheek: Palewolf, you are top notch when it comes to explaining things clearly, but I think it might be possible that your understanding of the process makes it seem that what has been written should be abundantly clear to the rest of us… when it actually is not. It might be just me, if so, would you please lay it out… for me?

 

 

PM sent to you trying to explain the process.

 

Hope it helps.

 

Okb

[johny two horse]

I believe that part of the problem is with the way these courses are labeled. ROl and ROll look like RO parts one and two, but that would not be correct. What we have is Range operations (basically safety and rules) and Range officer (how to operate a range) Neither class has a part two so why label them l & ll? Then RO lll (Or is it RO ll I ?) would simply be the Instructor class. Remember K.I.S.S. j2h

[Dalton Masterson, SASS #51139]

Johnny,

That is what I was trying to say, but couldnt figure out how. Thanks!

DM

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

If it’s really necessary to be a martyr in order to become a RO3, if you can catch me, you are welcome to hold me down, take off my boots and stomp the toes…of the boots, not mine.

 

Hang on, Buck. I've rounded up a posse and we're headed for the Yellowhammer State to give you a nice Christmas stomping. No need to thank me. I'm here for ya, pard.

[J-BAR #18287]

Hang on, Buck. I've rounded up a posse and we're headed for the Yellowhammer State to give you a nice Christmas stomping. No need to thank me. I'm here for ya, pard.

 

 

Now that's funny, I don't care who you are...

[Snakebite]

Don't know if the actually get one...I do know that they used to just paint them black.

 

 

 

I've got a whole can of Black Badges out in the garage.

 

Snakebite

[Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862]

I've got a whole can of Black Badges out in the garage.

 

Snakebite

Do you need one of those to fly the black helicopters I keep seeing?

[Snakebite]

I have submitted a request to the SASS Board of Directors for a 50% pay increase for all RO II Instructors (RO III). I was received with favorable response... should happen soon.

 

Snakebite

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

I have submitted a request to the SASS Board of Directors for a 50% pay increase for all RO II Instructors (RO III). I was received with favorable response... should happen soon.

 

Snakebite

 

Let's see, help me with the math here, a 50% increase of zero still equals zero, eh? But what the he77, you still get to travel far distances on your own dollar. What more can you ask for? Santa?

[Buck D. Law, SASS #62183]

Hang on, Buck. I've rounded up a posse and we're headed for the Yellowhammer State to give you a nice Christmas stomping. No need to thank me. I'm here for ya, pard.

 

Hey Okie, when ya get here, I'm gonna teach ya how ta say Yellerhammer. Of course, I'll be hollerin' YELLERHAMMER! over my shoulder 'cause I'll be runnin'. I might just take my boots off and leave 'em behind and let the hounds sniff 'em just to throw 'em off track. Besides, I can run faster without my boots.

 

Seriously, assuming I don't have to lie down and let the chuck wagon roll over me, I'm going to pursue this. I've already followed through with my threat and called Sawyer. I'm going to make myself available to teach when Sawyer can chaperone. We are both aware of the harm it could do to our reputations to be seen with the other. Right now, to his knowledge, he is the only active RO3 in the state. If this isn't one of the correct ways to begin this process, someone better speak now or forever hold their piece peace.

 

I've also got a call into SASS HQ. When I get someone there, I'm going to bleed their brain and see if I can come up with some hard facts about what must be done in order to become a RO3. If they have Power Point presentations, I'm going to ask for those. If they don't have them, I'll contact the persons listed earlier and see if they'll send them to me.

 

I've read the books front to back and back to front, but certainly understand based upon threads here that the rules are not always crystal clear to everyone. FWIW, when comparing my opinion on a "what's the call" to Palewolf's rulings, he has only been wrong one time ...and it was on what I consider to be a poorly written rule. I’m just sayin’.

 

For the record, when I get this behind me, I'll be able to teach anyone and then when "anyone" wants to learn...