Taylor’s & Co TC73 9mm

[wyliefoxEsquire]

13 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

what would be the advantage of having a rifle in 9mm?

 

This would be a good question for the WB 38SPL shooters to answer

[Stump Water]

23 hours ago, Houston CAS said:

 

I hope so. It’s not very visible. Maybe they can approve threaded barrels when it’s just a plain look and not something like a muzzle break etc. 

 

If they had made (or offered) that thread protector smooth vs. with the grooves there probably wouldn't need to be a discussion.

 

ETA:  Maybe they do.  I'm sure Taylors knows that grooved thread protector would bring up the "legality" question.

[doc roy l. pain]

Maybe they should just build guns that are already legal for sass instead of trying to make sass change rules to cater to them 

[Warden Callaway]

Rechamber it to 38 Short Colt and cut the stupid threaded end off!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

38 Short Colt has no real following.  It's be even less market share than 9mm.

 

Sedalia Dave,

 

The advantage lies in simple physics.  The 9mm case is shorter and lighter than a 38 case.  With less mass it is easier to get it into motion, and once in motion, much easier to accelerate and less mass to eject.  The results may well be sort of academic, but the potential is there for a well tuned 9mm '73 to run VERY fast.  That, of course, is presuming there is already an effective Short Stroke Kit available, or even in the gun.

 

In the past, Beretta introduced their own '73 with a Short Stroke.  The Beretta rifle used a combination, A copy of the 4th Generation C&I Lever, Pioneer Gunworks Links, with an OEM Carrier Bloc Arm.  It actually worked quite well.  They did not modify the Carrier Block or the Springs.  Action ran a little heavy.  Needed Springs.  The base was a Uberti '73  

[Stump Water]

48 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

The 9mm case is shorter .. than a 38 case.

 

2, 3, 3.5 gr. powder is going to be in a smaller space giving more consistent ignition. 

 

That said, I've never had a problem with consistency with 3.5gr Red Dot in a .38 spl.

 

So... maybe.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

What I find interesting is that most of you think this rifle is even geared towards cowboy action shooting. Since Taylor’s is in the business of selling guns and cowboy action is such a very small market, I’m figuring they’re marketing this to states that have restrictions on semi autos and such. 
 

[Dilli GaHoot Galoot]

8 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

Rechamber it to 38 Short Colt and cut the stupid threaded end off!

 

Or, and hear me out, maybe they rechamber it to 38 AMU and cut the rim off!

 

 

 

https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/rem-umc-38-amu-match-cartridge/36789

[Ozark Huckleberry]

I know there are non-jacketed 9mm bullets available (I've got about 3k 9mm moly-coated myself), 

 

I'm a little skeptical of a taper-crimp cartridge in a tubular magazine.

[Rye Miles #13621]

7 hours ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

What I find interesting is that most of you think this rifle is even geared towards cowboy action shooting. Since Taylor’s is in the business of selling guns and cowboy action is such a very small market, I’m figuring they’re marketing this to states that have restrictions on semi autos and such. 
 

 Taylor’s main market is cowboy shooting. Have you see their website? 
If this is being marketed to states that have restrictions on semi autos that’s a pretty small market.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

1 minute ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 Taylor’s main market is cowboy shooting. Have you see their website? 
If this is being marketed to states that have restrictions on semi autos that’s a pretty small market.

Really? Have you seen their website? 3/4 of their firearms aren’t legal or applicable for this game and you think this is their main market? 

[Rye Miles #13621]

1 hour ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Really? Have you seen their website? 3/4 of their firearms aren’t legal or applicable for this game and you think this is their main market? 

3/4 ???? Not really, I've been on their website numerous times. I think maybe you should look again!

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

With the Henry Homesteader now on the market, I'm not surprised to see it come out in 9mm.

Looks like a beautiful rifle at a high price marketed to a small audience.

They will need to recover the investment. 

But I see it dead as fast as it shows up .

Unfortunately I got sucked into the American made Allure when HRA come out with the 1860 Original Henry Rifle .

I desired to have an American Made Henry 1860 so bad with the name Henry on it .

I sold my 25 year old Uberti 1860 with beautiful patina on it .

And almost regretted it from the moment I did it .

I wish I had that rifle back so bad .

With No aftermarket parts on the market for the Henry Original 1860 New Rifle. 

It was a dream that turned into a gimmick nightmare. 

Uberti ownes the reproduction market. 

Always has always will .

Even the Japanese Winchester is a dieing joke compared to the Italian clones .

 

 

[Boggus Deal #64218]

Just now, Rye Miles #13621 said:

3/4 ???? Not really, I've been on their website numerous times. I think maybe you should look again!

I just did! Just to make sure. And it’s probably more than 3/4…. Everything from the muzzleloader to the 1911s that doesn’t qualify for Wild Bunch. Cowboy action is a small, quickly dying market. 
Even with their guns that do actually fit this game, I’d guess more of them are sold to non cowboy shooters. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

8 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I just did! Just to make sure. And it’s probably more than 3/4…. Everything from the muzzleloader to the 1911s that doesn’t qualify for Wild Bunch. Cowboy action is a small, quickly dying market. 
Even with their guns that do actually fit this game, I’d guess more of them are sold to non cowboy shooters. 

I respectfully disagree with your count of 3/4. With all the different models of SAA's and Rifles for our sport, they have way more than non SASS guns. 

Muzzleloaders and 1911's are marketed to SASS shooters. Very few outside of this sport.

[Boggus Deal #64218]

8 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I respectfully disagree with your count of 3/4. With all the different models of SAA's and Rifles for our sport, they have way more than non SASS guns. 

Muzzleloaders and 1911's are marketed to SASS shooters. Very few outside of this sport.

They do have way more than cowboy guns. Your last two sentences makes no sense. 
As I mentioned, SASS. Is dwindling. With around 20,000 current members, it is not a major market for anyone, Taylor’s, Cimarron, EMF, Ruger or Colt. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

Just now, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

They do have way more than cowboy guns. Your last two sentences makes no sense. 
As I mentioned, SASS. Is dwindling. With around 20,000 current members, it is not a major market for anyone, Taylor’s, Cimarron, EMF, Ruger or Colt. 

They make sense to me, again I respectfully disagree and I'm really done with this argument. Have a great day!

[Abilene, SASS # 27489]

22 minutes ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

I just did! Just to make sure. And it’s probably more than 3/4…. Everything from the muzzleloader to the 1911s that doesn’t qualify for Wild Bunch. Cowboy action is a small, quickly dying market. 
Even with their guns that do actually fit this game, I’d guess more of them are sold to non cowboy shooters. 

I expect this is true, as it is certainly true with Cimarron.  Mike Harvey has told me numerous times that more cowboy guns are sold to the general public than to cowboy shooters.  Some guns, like 18-20" .357 '73's, short stroke/competition pistols, etc are certainly aimed at and more popular with CAS, but the majority of the guns are not.  CAS is a very significant part of the business, sure, but not the largest part, especially these days.  Lots of people love the old cowboy guns, although we are certainly the most visible users and the most obvious to market to.

[Rye Miles #13621]

2 hours ago, Boggus Deal #64218 said:

Really? Have you seen their website? 3/4 of their firearms aren’t legal or applicable for this game and you think this is their main market? 

 

17 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

I expect this is true, as it is certainly true with Cimarron.  Mike Harvey has told me numerous times that more cowboy guns are sold to the general public than to cowboy shooters.  Some guns, like 18-20" .357 '73's, short stroke/competition pistols, etc are certainly aimed at and more popular with CAS, but the majority of the guns are not.  CAS is a very significant part of the business, sure, but not the largest part, especially these days.  Lots of people love the old cowboy guns, although we are certainly the most visible users and the most obvious to market to.

I don't doubt that a lot of non sass shooters are buying their guns, (I know a few myself)but what I disagreed with was 3/4 of their firearms are NOT applicable to this game. I didn't actually count but it sure likes like there's a heckuva lot more sass guns than not.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Folks, this game we play is slowly dying.  Kicking, Fighting, Scratching, Screaming, but dying none the less.  There isn't sufficient influx of "new" shooters.  The Western Genre that existed in the beginning of SASS/CAS is gone.  And it ain't coming back with the exception of very few theater releases.  The era when Uberti et all couldn't keep up with the demand is long past.  The vast majority of CAS players are aging out and no replacement in the pipe.  The importers and manufacturers are all branch out to "Others."  Get use to it. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

22 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Folks, this game we play is slowly dying.  Kicking, Fighting, Scratching, Screaming, but dying none the less.  There isn't sufficient influx of "new" shooters.  The Western Genre that existed in the beginning of SASS/CAS is gone.  And it ain't coming back with the exception of very few theater releases.  The era when Uberti et all couldn't keep up with the demand is long past.  The vast majority of CAS players are aging out and no replacement in the pipe.  The importers and manufacturers are all branch out to "Others."  Get use to it. 

There's a lot of truth to this but I think the "new" shooters coming in aren't necessarily young'uns. I see that the new ones are mostly in their 40's and 50's even 60's because they can afford it. 

It's true the importers and manufacturers are going to have to branch out but They'll never complete with Glock, S&W, and a slew of others producing semi autos etc.

[Buckshot Bob]

Maybe something like 9mm guns can help participation. This is an expensive sport to get into and then there is the expense of reloading equipment and time to load . Personally I like reloading but I know many people who don’t have the time or inclination. Major manufacturers already load lead in coated bullets and frangible ammo . Honestly for what competitive shooters are trying to accomplish 9mm is an ideal cartridge. And at this time it’s gotta be the most produced center fire handgun cartridge in the world. 

[Rye Miles #13621]

10 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Maybe something like 9mm guns can help participation. This is an expensive sport to get into and then there is the expense of reloading equipment and time to load . Personally I like reloading but I know many people who don’t have the time or inclination. Major manufacturers already load lead in coated bullets and frangible ammo . Honestly for what competitive shooters are trying to accomplish 9mm is an ideal cartridge. And at this time it’s gotta be the most produced center fire handgun cartridge in the world. 

That 9mm rifle is $2100!!! I don’t know how that will help financially! 

[Misty Moonshine]

21 hours ago, doc roy l. pain said:

Maybe they should just build guns that are already legal for sass instead of trying to make sass change rules to cater to them 

You know that SASS members aren’t their only customer base, right? 
Taylors has always been one of the biggest supporters of SASS and CAS- but we are far from their only market! 
This was a brilliant (and brave!) move by our friends at Taylor’s- let’s support them!! 
Misty

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

1 hour ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Maybe something like 9mm guns can help participation. This is an expensive sport to get into and then there is the expense of reloading equipment and time to load . Personally I like reloading but I know many people who don’t have the time or inclination. Major manufacturers already load lead in coated bullets and frangible ammo . Honestly for what competitive shooters are trying to accomplish 9mm is an ideal cartridge. And at this time it’s gotta be the most produced center fire handgun cartridge in the world. 

I checked on the velocity specs of Federal Syntech 150 grain Total Synthetic Jack, 9 mm ammo.  It's listed at 890-fps.  That's legal for SASS though handloaders would certainly load to lower velocities.

[doc roy l. pain]

17 minutes ago, Misty Moonshine said:

You know that SASS members aren’t their only customer base, right? 
Taylors has always been one of the biggest supporters of SASS and CAS- but we are far from their only market! 
This was a brilliant (and brave!) move by our friends at Taylor’s- let’s support them!! 
Misty

Absolutely I know that. My hopes were that they would offer some cowboy calibers also. Hopefully they will in the near future. Been a customer of Taylor’s for many years. I also know that cowboy and historical replica arms shooters have been their main customer base for many years. 

[Buckshot Bob]

18 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I checked on the velocity specs of Federal Syntech 150 grain Total Synthetic Jack, 9 mm ammo.  It's listed at 890-fps.  That's legal for SASS though handloaders would certainly load to lower velocities.

Allot of the frangible ammo probably exceeds the velocity rules , but my understanding of why these rules are in place is because of safety and target damage. And the frangible already addresses this . Plus it would be legal if states like Ca ever totally outlaw lead . Rules can be changed if necessary. It would also make it cheaper for reloaders just because of the cost and availability of brass . But it would look bad in a gun belt  

 

If this rifle sells well I would guess it will come out in other configurations, I’m just interested in seeing on and knowing where their built , according the ad it’s real color case hardening not the chemical kind 

[Buckshot Bob]

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

That 9mm rifle is $2100!!! I don’t know how that will help financially! 

I’m sure the Italian’s and Ruger/Marlin are capable of making 9mm guns , they already make 9mm SAA’s . I’m just saying if the powers that be want to make it easier to participate in CAS taking away the having to reload part of it may increase participation. I know there’s people selling cowboy loads but they generally aren’t competitive with the price of 9mm by the case 

[Rye Miles #13621]

39 minutes ago, Buckshot Bob said:

I’m sure the Italian’s and Ruger/Marlin are capable of making 9mm guns , they already make 9mm SAA’s . I’m just saying if the powers that be want to make it easier to participate in CAS taking away the having to reload part of it may increase participation. I know there’s people selling cowboy loads but they generally aren’t competitive with the price of 9mm by the case 

You have a point there, it would definitely be cheaper made in Italy. 

[Griff]

Y'all did note that PWB already posted that he's inquired of the ROC whether the threaded barrel will be an exempted external modification, right?  You also shou'da noted that he didn't make any mention of the 9mm chambering.  Ergo, if the 9mm is legal as a pistol cartridge, and rifles must be in a pistol cartridge, it stands to reason that 9mm will be legal in the rifle also.  (Okay, not in Classic Cowboy/girl, but all other categories, fine).

[DeaconKC]

I wonder if it come out as a Super .38? That would be sweet if WB would allow the Super in 1911s too. What a combination.

[wyliefoxEsquire]

3 hours ago, Griff said:

Y'all did note that PWB already posted that he's inquired of the ROC whether the threaded barrel will be an exempted external modification, right?  You also shou'da noted that he didn't make any mention of the 9mm chambering.  Ergo, if the 9mm is legal as a pistol cartridge, and rifles must be in a pistol cartridge, it stands to reason that 9mm will be legal in the rifle also.  (Okay, not in Classic Cowboy/girl, but all other categories, fine).

 

 

I fail to see that 9mm was a revolver cartridge during the "Old West".  SHB page 2

 

[Buckshot Bob]

27 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

 

 

I fail to see that 9mm was a revolver cartridge during the "Old West".  SHB page 2

 

Neither was 38 special or 357 mag 

[Griff]

29 minutes ago, wyliefoxEsquire said:

I fail to see that 9mm was a revolver cartridge during the "Old West".  SHB page 2

Dunna matter; PWB hath spoken:  

 

1 minute ago, Buckshot Bob said:

Neither was 38 special or 357 mag 

The .38 Special was designed and entered production in 1898.  With the first handgun produced for the Cartridge in 1899.  It was originally a BP round, but ammo manufacturers began producing smokeless loads after just a year of introduction.

[Buckshot Bob]

24 minutes ago, Griff said:

Dunna matter; PWB hath spoken:  

 

The .38 Special was designed and entered production in 1898.  With the first handgun produced for the Cartridge in 1899.  It was originally a BP round, but ammo manufacturers began producing smokeless loads after just a year of introduction.

But it still was never really a “cowboy/western cartridge. Especially since the guns most everyone’s competing with are 357 magnum. My point being if you can use a 38 special you certainly should be able to use a 9mm designed in 1901 .

Then you just need a pair of Schofield’s in 9mm with full moon clips for a fast reload