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Shooting an antique 1873 rifle?


Cibola Al

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Fella at the Springerville gun show had an antique Winchester 1873 in 38-40 on his table. I didn’t end up buying it, but there was something special about the patina and feeling of holding a piece of history.

 

I kinda want one now. I know some of you own and shoot these old rifles. I’d love to see some pictures of your guns and hear about your experiences with them. ~ Al

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  • Cibola Al changed the title to Shooting an antique 1873 rifle?

Injun Ryder shoots an 1873 Musket on occasion. He doesn't need any cartridges because the barrel is long enough he can just tap the targets.

 

The original black powder guns often didn't survive well. I have an 1886 Winchester that I am struggling to shoot because there is just a hint of rifling left. I recommend you bring a bore light and thoroughly inspect the bore before buying anything.

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Here it is:

 

image.thumb.png.e4fbe2fde9076a7f5b799d105bb4e473.png

 

Manufactured 1891. 44-40 (as were all 1873 muskets).

 

I also have the bayonet and have shot with it attached!:rolleyes:

 

It shoots well and has won a couple of long range (100 yards) side matches at major matches. (Unfortunately, I did not win them but a partner did following my instructions on how to use the ladder sight for 100 yards.:()

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While no longer my main match rifle, after a few repairs I used my '73, born in 1892, extensively for several years.  It's in 38WCF and has a rough barrel but shoots straight.

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This is my 73.

73.jpg.bf8955ae62f8f8731b7165e4dd560730.jpg

 

     It's a .32-20, and it started my love affair with that caliber.   (Also have a 92 and a Lightning in it)  Took it to the big annual match in Port Huron, Michigan a few years ago.  As I was walking across the parking lot to the shooting bays, a fellow asked me, "Is that a real Winchester?" 

     "Yep."
     "Wow.  I've never even seen one before.   Can I take a look at it?"

     "Go ahead."
     So, he picked up my rifle and was grinning as he shouldered it.  Then he asked if he could cycle the action and I told him to go ahead.
     He couldn't move the lever.

     He checked to make sure the lever lock was not engaged, and when he saw that it was not, he looked at me kinda timid like and said, "I think it's broken..."

     "No it's not," I said, and I took back the rifle and opened the action.

     He was so used to slicked up, short stroked Uberties that he could not work the lever on an unmodified original Winchester.

     True story! 

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Here are a couple of oldies I shoot from time to time........

 

The '73 Carbine is a 2nd model 38WCF and about a 145 years old.....

I pull it out once a year or so and shoot it in local matches.

 

The Hopkins & Allen "Forehand" is 12ga it's about 120 years old....

I've shot it in around 4 CAS matches over the years.

But the Most Fun I had with it was when I shot it in a Skeet Shoot using Black Powder....

As soon as I shot the first round an Official Ran down the hill and stopped me.....

He asked what the Heck I was doing....

I explained the gun had been thoroughly checked out and the BP rounds were light loads at under 1000 fps

After checking the gun, my ammo and with another official he just shook his head and said OK go for it!

I didn't do worth a Crap... But I had FUN!

IMG_0548.jpg

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12 minutes ago, Silver Sam, SASS #34718L said:

Here are a couple of oldies I shoot from time to time........

 

The '73 Carbine is a 2nd model 38WCF and about a 145 years old.....

I pull it out once a year or so and shoot it in local matches.

 

The Hopkins & Allen "Forehand" is 12ga it's about 120 years old....

I've shot it in around 4 CAS matches over the years.

But the Most Fun I had with it was when I shot it in a Skeet Shoot using Black Powder....

As soon as I shot the first round an Official Ran down the hill and stopped me.....

He asked what the Heck I was doing....

I explained the gun had been thoroughly checked out and the BP rounds were light loads at under 1000 fps

After checking the gun, my ammo and with another official he just shook his head and said OK go for it!

I didn't do worth a Crap... But I had FUN!

IMG_0548.jpg

 

When I first started shooting BP in a shotgun I took some of my loads out to a skeet range and shot a round to test them out.  I did fine shooting singles, but shooting doubles was a bit rough.  I couldn't see a durn thing after the first shot.  You can't hit a pair if you can't see the second bird.  It was darn fun, tho.

 

Angus

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I have a 3rd model in 38WCF.   Bore is really bad but it shoots good enough for SASS.  Big and clunky.  Like driving a log truck. But that's what they had back then.  Look how massive compared to the Winchester 1892 and Marlin 1894.

 

5abe9bd41c892_739294March2018.jpg.e76360ff8a712ad1c5572c6b4a923d35.jpg

 

 

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I bought four original 1873s after the real estate bubble burst.  Paid $750-$900 for shooter-grade guns, complete and functioning, up to 30% finish, no alterations.  Three were is.38 WCF; one is a .32 WCF.  I only shot BP or Trailboss in the.38s.  I still have the .32 and shoot it 1 or 2 Saturday matches per year.  I kept the.32 since I kept my best 1892 in .38 WCF.  My reasoning was more steel around the .32 chamber and about 2/3 the powder charge.

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Just now, Tom Bullweed said:

I bought four original 1873s after the real estate bubble burst.  Paid $750-$900 for shooter-grade guns, complete and functioning, up to 30% finish, no alterations.  Three were is.38 WCF; one is a .32 WCF.  I only shot BP or Trailboss in the.38s.  I still have the .32 and shoot it 1 or 2 Saturday matches per year.  I kept the.32 since I kept my best 1892 in .38 WCF.  My reasoning was more steel around the .32 chamber and about 2/3 the powder charge.

photo

 

20190526_210443.jpg

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I have 3 myself.2 44/40 & 1 32/20.Also have a Spencer carbine.

                                                                                                                  Largo    

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I had an original '73 in .44-40, but the groove diameter was .429 and with bullets that big, it wouldn't chamber the loaded cartridges. When I bought it, I discovered the toggles had cracks in them. This was back in '70.  Val Forgett of Navy Arms was kind enough to send me a newly manufactured pair, which I fitted to the action. Probably would have been good enough for SASS shooting, but I switched to a Navy Arms Henry, which, as I aged became too muzzle-heavy for my back, and I went to the lighter Rossi '92's.

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On 10/3/2022 at 3:12 PM, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said:

This is my 73.

73.jpg.bf8955ae62f8f8731b7165e4dd560730.jpg

 

     It's a .32-20, and it started my love affair with that caliber.   (Also have a 92 and a Lightning in it)  Took it to the big annual match in Port Huron, Michigan a few years ago.  As I was walking across the parking lot to the shooting bays, a fellow asked me, "Is that a real Winchester?" 

     "Yep."
     "Wow.  I've never even seen one before.   Can I take a look at it?"

     "Go ahead."
     So, he picked up my rifle and was grinning as he shouldered it.  Then he asked if he could cycle the action and I told him to go ahead.
     He couldn't move the lever.

     He checked to make sure the lever lock was not engaged, and when he saw that it was not, he looked at me kinda timid like and said, "I think it's broken..."

     "No it's not," I said, and I took back the rifle and opened the action.

     He was so used to slicked up, short stroked Uberties that he could not work the lever on an unmodified original Winchester.

     True story! 

Original Winchesters were so poorly sprung that grown men were unable to operate the levers? I’m surprised they were able to sell any!

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Howdy

 

Winchester 38-40 Model 1873. Shipped in 1887. Obviously , the magazine was replaced with a new one at some point.

 

plkO8zklj

 

 

 

 

The same rifle with a 38-40 Colt Bisley that shipped in 1909.

 

pluVijtGj

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On 10/4/2022 at 10:50 AM, Trailrider #896 said:

I had an original '73 in .44-40, but the groove diameter was .429 and with bullets that big, it wouldn't chamber the loaded cartridges. When I bought it, I discovered the toggles had cracks in them. This was back in '70.  Val Forgett of Navy Arms was kind enough to send me a newly manufactured pair, which I fitted to the action. Probably would have been good enough for SASS shooting, but I switched to a Navy Arms Henry, which, as I aged became too muzzle-heavy for my back, and I went to the lighter Rossi '92's.

I would try .427 soft desperado bullets from cowboybullets.com. My circa 1995 rossi 92 is overbored .434-.435 would key hole at 25 yards   .430 desperado upset and shot round holes at one hundred.

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I have an original 1881 in 38-40 and have used it in a couple of matches. Bore is pretty rough but it shoots fine. I had to straighten a couple things out but it was pretty simple. Several parts from the newer replicas will fit although some parts require a little reworking.

kR

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I have an original 1886 that was made in 1888. When I got it it was rough. Mag tube was bent, bore was gone, pitted and rusted, missing screws, wouldn’t cycle etc. it was in 38-56wcf which is really a bad caliber in such a big rifle. But since the 38-56 is 45-70 necked down to .38 all the internals are the same. So I had it bored out to a 45-70 bore. Now the bore is brand new and immaculate with still the original barrel. I sent it to cinnabar gun works to have the magtube replaced and other things fixed I couldn’t do myself. Mike, the guy who owns the cinnbar covered it on his YouTube channel and he is a winchester specialist and current vp of the winchester collectors association. Now it shoot amazing. The buck horn at the highest setting lets me shoot out to 200 yards and everything is in the black on a military/competition target. I’ll only shoot blackpowder handloads through. May try and get it to a lever gun match at some point. Here is Mike’s video on the repairs. He shoots it at the end also. 

 

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Oops, I read originals I didn’t think 1873s only. Well his channel has some great info on shooting original 1873’s. He even has a video of him shooting a 30inch 73 with a full tube of 44-40 to see how much it’ll hold. 

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6 hours ago, Hampton Bogs said:

I have an original 1886 that was made in 1888. When I got it it was rough. Mag tube was bent, bore was gone, pitted and rusted, missing screws, wouldn’t cycle etc. it was in 38-56wcf which is really a bad caliber in such a big rifle. But since the 38-56 is 45-70 necked down to .38 all the internals are the same. So I had it bored out to a 45-70 bore. Now the bore is brand new and immaculate with still the original barrel. I sent it to cinnabar gun works to have the magtube replaced and other things fixed I couldn’t do myself. Mike, the guy who owns the cinnbar covered it on his YouTube channel and he is a winchester specialist and current vp of the winchester collectors association. Now it shoot amazing. The buck horn at the highest setting lets me shoot out to 200 yards and everything is in the black on a military/competition target. I’ll only shoot blackpowder handloads through. May try and get it to a lever gun match at some point. Here is Mike’s video on the repairs. He shoots it at the end also. 

 

I have an 86 in 38-56. Very accurate rifle with BP or smokiless. A great caliber in my opinion. I would like to find one in a highwall.

kR

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