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Double Duelist in Gunfighter?


Chicken George*
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My wife was shooting the pistol speed event at EOT. She shoots duelist using double duelist style. She asked the person running it (one of the match ROs) if she could do a run for gunfighter while shooting double duelist style. She was told that in order for it to count, she would have to pull both guns out of leather before shooting. 

 

I have never heard of this requirement and I see nothing that supports it in the handbook. Was this just an EOT side match thing, was this person incorrect to require it, or is this a real thing? 

 

My wife is now being told that at an upcoming match, they don't have enough duelists and she may have to shoot gunfighter. She is worried about not being able to shoot how she normally does even though I've assured her that she is fine to do so. 

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CG,

 

I don’t know of any requirement that both guns have to be drawn at the same time.  The requirement is that your pistols must be shot “double duelist”. 

EOT=???????

 

or gunfighter of course. 
 

Vic

Edited by Yellowstone Vic SASS#32968
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I'd say someone doesn't understand gunfighter and it wasn't the Mrs. Gunfighter can use dbl duelist style as needed or wanted. They can shoot the pistols in any sequence they want alternating seems to be the most efficient but not necessary 

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Somebody made up a rule that does not exist.

 

SHB

Quote

Gunfighter Style

- Gunfighter style is defined as shooting with a revolver in each hand. Revolvers must be cocked and fired one handed, unsupported, one right-handed and the other left-handed. There is no set pattern as to how the revolvers are to be fired, but alternating revolvers is clearly the most efficient.

- Gunfighter Rules:

  o Any main match fixed sight revolver may be used.

  o Only Gunfighter style or Double Duelist style may be used.

  o Any SASS legal main match shotgun and legal main match rifle may be used.

  o Any SASS legal ammunition may be used.

  o Two holsters are required, one on each side.

  o Gunfighter style category competitors are allowed two loaded revolvers “in hand” at the same time.

  o Gunfighter style competitors are prohibited from utilizing a simultaneous “double cross draw” method of drawing or holstering revolvers.

  o Gunfighter style competitors must shoot FIVE rounds with each hand – regardless of how they are drawn from leather.

  o The revolvers must never be held in an unsafe manner (e.g., one revolver behind the other)

  o When a stage calls for 10 revolver rounds in a single sequence or the use of only one revolver for the stage, the Gunfighter may draw both revolvers and engage the targets. The Gunfighter shall shoot the targets in exactly the same sequence as prescribed in the stage scenario.

  o A Gunfighter may utilize any sequence that is available for use by any other shooting category.

  o Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as “first pistol/second pistol,” “left revolver/right revolver,” or “with each handgun” are interpreted as “1st five shots/2nd five shots” when shooting Gunfighter style.

  o Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring.

  o A Gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence.

  o Stage design may allow a competitor shooting Gunfighter style to stage or restage revolvers between target sequences. If the shooter’s hands are otherwise constrained (e.g., rolling the dice between revolver sequences), the revolvers must be drawn and shot one at a time (double duelist) unless they can be safely staged rather than holstered. In this case, both revolvers may be employed at the same time for the first five rounds, safely restaged, and then employed at the same time again for the second five rounds.

 

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I remember, several years ago, I was TOing a shooter who I knew always shot silver senior duelist in the double duelist style.

 

First stage, he kind of shocked me a bit, pulling both pistols out, shot one dry, then the other, then holstered them both and went about his business.

 

This was at a state championship match. He was a descent shooter, but didn't win many awards. He realized that there was no one from his state shooting Silver Senior Gunfighter, so he signed up for it, but didn't tell anybody.

 

After I called out the time, polled the spotters, and went over the to the scorekeeper to show the timer I quietly asked, "What category is he shooting in?" They looked and replied Silver Senior Gunfighter.

 

So, I talked with the shooter after he finished unloading. That's when I learned the rest of the story! I mentioned that he didn't need to pull them both at the same time, just keep shooting double duelist.  Man, was that a relief to him! 

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Sounds like to me ANOTHER person who likes to invent new rules and guidelines because they don't know what

in the world is going on.

SASS may need to send ole TN Williams out there and straighten everybody out..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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Its early, gotta stir the pot a little, maybe we'll get 2 pages outa this. Even side matches have to follow the rules. BUT, what if a stage were written where Gunfighter must shoot this stage Double Duelest, even though it is a 10 shot string??? You know, like saying in the stage instructions you cannot move with an unloaded shotgun.

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18 minutes ago, Ranger Dan said:

Its early, gotta stir the pot a little, maybe we'll get 2 pages outa this. Even side matches have to follow the rules. BUT, what if a stage were written where Gunfighter must shoot this stage Double Duelest, even though it is a 10 shot string??? You know, like saying in the stage instructions you cannot move with an unloaded shotgun.

 

Usually, but not always, when a stage writer wants you to do that because the don't want you to move with pistols out, or risk a GF moving with cocked hammers, they will have the pistols staged.

 

That being said, all the following apply:

 

SHB pg 6-7

Quote

Only Gunfighter style or Double Duelist style may be used.

...

Gunfighter style competitors must shoot FIVE rounds with each hand – regardless of how they are drawn from leather.

...

Stage design may allow a competitor shooting Gunfighter style to stage or restage revolvers between target sequences. If the shooter’s hands are otherwise constrained (e.g., rolling the dice between revolver sequences), the revolvers must be drawn and shot one at a time (double duelist) unless they can be safely staged rather than holstered. In this case, both revolvers may be employed at the same time for the first five rounds, safely restaged, and then employed at the same time again for the second five rounds.

 

Match Director's Guide, pg 2

Quote

Don’t try to write an exercise into a stagethat might cause discretionary calls or aresimply designed to trip up a shooter.

 

Notice also, the rules state:

Quote

 

Gunfighter style category competitors are allowed two loaded revolvers “in hand” at the same time.

 

When a stage calls for 10 revolver rounds in a single sequence or the use of only one revolver for the stage, the Gunfighter may draw both revolvers and engage the targets. The Gunfighter shall shoot the targets in exactly the same sequence as prescribed in the stage scenario.

 

Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring.

 

Notice, it keeps saying that they MAY have 2 loaded revolvers in hand at the same time and not that they MUST.

 

If it is 10 shots stand and deliver, but the instructions read 1st pistol, second pistol, I would also want to read:

 

Quote

Stage instructions that specify separate revolvers such as “first pistol/second pistol,” “left revolver/right revolver,” or “with each handgun” are interpreted as “1st five shots/2nd five shots” when shooting Gunfighter style.

 

Edited by Branchwater Jack SASS #88854
added quote box
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3 hours ago, Chicken George* said:

My wife was shooting the pistol speed event at EOT. She shoots duelist using double duelist style. She asked the person running it (one of the match ROs) if she could do a run for gunfighter while shooting double duelist style. She was told that in order for it to count, she would have to pull both guns out of leather before shooting.....

 

Hard to say at this time why they had that rule.  However, I don't see any way that a double duelist could shoot as fast as a gunfighter in a speed side match, so I'm not sure why she would try.  Were there just no female gunfighter side match entrants?

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3 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

I ain't saying anything!

sometimes you just have to "let it go":rolleyes:

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5 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

I read that as the song from the movie frozen. I've got an 11yo daughter:lol:

Ha...never heard of the Frozen movie but I'm old (like Widder).  

Besides, isn't that a George Strait song.  I can relate to Sir George.

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7 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

Ha...never heard of the Frozen movie but I'm old (like Widder).  

Besides, isn't that a George Strait song.  I can relate to Sir George.

Pretty close. That's "give it away". You know, what we do when we have a bunch of misses.

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The only advantage I can see for your wife at the side match was that she could have both pistols out at the same time - only GF can do that…saving her the transition time. 
 

at my first EOT (2019) I was shooting GF. There were 6 vertical targets 3 and 3. I drew both pistols aimed at the targets and 100% chickened out and shot double duelist! 
 

Great big GF hugs!

 

Scarlett

 

PS. WHY can’t folks READ and put into PRACTICE the RULES! 

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53 minutes ago, Chicken George* said:

You must be a gunfighter... 

Not much any more.  My thumbs don't work so good as they used to, and I'm not near as fast as other pards who started when I did.  A good double duelist would beat me easily. :)

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5 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Hard to say at this time why they had that rule.  However, I don't see any way that a double duelist could shoot as fast as a gunfighter in a speed side match, so I'm not sure why she would try.  Were there just no female gunfighter side match entrants?

A pard shoots FCGF and says he can shoot it faster double duelist than he can GF.  He has shot duelist or DD for years and recently took up GF.  

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5 hours ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Hard to say at this time why they had that rule.  However, I don't see any way that a double duelist could shoot as fast as a gunfighter in a speed side match, so I'm not sure why she would try.  Were there just no female gunfighter side match entrants?

 

Depends on who enters. Looking only at people shooting Gunfighter or Duelist style, the top 4 were Gunfighters, 5, 6, and 7 where shooting duellist, 8 was GF, 9 was Classic Cowboy, and 10 was GF.

 

 

 

I will enter speed Shotgun at most matches. I shoot an 87 and even though I'm not all that fast when compared to the top SXS shooters I do fairly well even when lumped in with the 97 shooters.

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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21 hours ago, Chicken George* said:

She shoots duelist using double duelist style.

My wife is now being told that at an upcoming match, they don't have enough duelists and she may have to shoot gunfighter. She is worried about not being able to shoot how she normally does even though I've assured her that she is fine to do so. 

 

Your wife is fine shooting DD in the GF category. It's to bad that someone stirred her wrong at the EOT side match.

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I shot Gunfighter only once, just to try it.   I normally shoot  double duelist.   One stage had split pistols.   I shot that state double duelist style.    Drew my left pistol engaged the 5 targets there. holstered, moved to the right to the targets there and engaged them with my right pistol.   There was a little confusion as to if what I did was legal, someone pulled out the Shooters Handbook and it was soon determined that I had done nothing contrary to the category rules.

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