BP Revolver Conversion Cylenders equal a "Ghost Gun??"

[PowderPuff gal]

I have the Howell Conversion Cylinder for my Uberti 1858 New Army. But, other than checking to see that it would fit and seat correctly. (It does.) I have never used it. But someone told me the other day, that when I swap out the Ball Cylinder and slip in the conversion cylinder which shoots as I expect many of you know, cowboy load cartridges, that I have in fact "manufactured" what is then, a "real" gun as opposed to the status of BP Revolver. And since it is not a registered hand gun. Would that mean then, with the conversion cylinder installed, that it then makes my Uberti 1858 a so called "Ghost Gun?"

 

I was also told, only to ever shoot cowboy cartridges at the range or privately own property. And that I should never use it in a self defense situation with the conversion cylinder, or I would find myself with even bigger problems, that often go along with a clean and clear self defense situation. (Meaning at home.)

 

My tummy is kind of telling me, that what I was told and am thinking, are probably really correct information. But, I thought, I would check with you all who have been at this longer than I!!!  As always, thanks in advance!!!  PPG!  (aka  - Karen)

 

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

I would venture that many shooters have 'unregistered' handguns. As in family hand me downs, or guns bought between shooters. Those aren't Ghost guns are they?

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I notice that the original poster lives in California.

I would check with local law enforcement.

[Dirty Dog Doug]

if the frame has serial number on it  you are still good 

[John Boy]

BATF has never made any issue swapping the cylinders.

Nor have they made any issue swapping a rifle rim fire block & firing pin to center fire for  modified rim fire rounds converted to center fires

[Sedalia Dave]

Don't ask question you may not like the answer to.

 

I would do as advised and use the conversion cylinder only at Cowboy matches. The feds may not care but asking PRoK government officials questions like this one may unleash a tidal wave of unintended consequences that not only impact you buy may cause problems for every CAS shooter in the state.

 

YMMV 

[PowderPuff gal]

14 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

I would venture that many shooters have 'unregistered' handguns. As in family hand me downs, or guns bought between shooters. Those aren't Ghost guns are they?

Hi.......Well, in that my 1858 is a BP Revolver and even here in CA they don't fall under the same restrictions as regular handguns. We can have them shipped to ur doors and all of that....But, what I wondered was because the person talking to me said, when  swapping out the Ball and powder cylinder, I have in effect, manufactured a standard handgun. (Which is fine for the range or on privately own property) but would as I mentioned (According to the other person) be big an extra big problem if I used in a self defense situation with the conversion cylinder installed. The revolver is not registered because it is Black Powder Revolver.)....What "sounded" right to me as very possible. That when I slip the conversion cylinder in, that I had now manufactured a real gun. I am trained in all the things that can happen even in a good home self defense situation. But, wondered what it was / is that what cause me other problems, if for some strange reason, I used it with the conversion cylinder etc.  Something sounded probably right to me....Even though, I wasn't sure what...or why......Not that I got my 1858 for self defense....I just got for the fun of shooting it....I have other options for self defense lol....Thanks for the note!!

[PowderPuff gal]

20 minutes ago, Dirty Dog Doug said:

if the frame has serial number on it  you are still good 

Well, it does have serial / model number on the outer frame. So, there is that! lol   Thx  

[PowderPuff gal]

6 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Don't ask question you may not like the answer to.

 

I would do as advised and use the conversion cylinder only at Cowboy matches. The feds may not care but asking PRoK government officials questions like this one may unleash a tidal wave of unintended consequences that not only impact you buy may cause problems for every CAS shooter in the state.

 

YMMV 

lol! Thank you for your reply......Thankfully, that's all I really got the conversion cylinder for...I actually prefer using it in Ball and powder more! Much more smoke and lightning. But, I got the Howell Cyl So, I could shoot it both ways. Not to turn my 1858 into a home self defense weapon. Yup, I just had that feeling in my tummy that there was truth in what that person was telling me. And I do have a much more appropriate CA legal option were I ever to be in fear for my life....Besides the fact, that my home is well alarmed etc....And I hear what you're saying!!!  Maybe I should kill this thread! lol Hmmm Myabe???

[PowderPuff gal]

29 minutes ago, John Boy said:

BATF has never made any issue swapping the cylinders.

Nor have they made any issue swapping a rifle rim fire block & firing pin to center fire for  modified rim fire rounds converted to center fires

Thank you....I really appreciate the feedback on this topic!   Karen

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

PowderPuff

 

I can't speak for current California Law.  You also getting a lot of hemming and hawing here from people who don't really know anything.  Like asking a knitter how to do a heart transplant.  Under the BATFE rules/regulations/law, a Conversion Cylinder for a BP Revolver is considered a PART.  It is not of itself a "firearm" of any sort.  There are no restrictions on When, Where nor How" you may use the part.  So long as you have not "altered" the original revolver receiver, you have not "manufactured" anything.

 

A sometimes "grey" area is when a BP Colt pattern revolver has the Recoil Shield specifically channeled to load cartridges thru a gated conversion ring.  Channeling the recoil shield, constitutes, under the BATFE, as written, as having "manufactured" a firearm.  It is completely legal for you to do so.  You may make a firearm for YOUR OWN use.  You may NOT sell or Transfer (give away) a firearm you have manufactured for your personal use, without a license to manufacture, and all the attendant rules and forms.  A firearm you have manufactured for your personal use may (maybe - grey area) be sold or transferred through a licensed FFL holding dealer.  Lots of Paperwork there.  Best bottom line, is once you have altered the recoil shield and manufactured a firearm, you get to keep it forever.  DO NOT poke the Beast.  BATFE do NOT have a sense of humor.  Manufacturing and selling firearms without a license WILL result a new residence.

 

Ghost Guns by definition are those guns, built from incomplete parts.  Incompletely machined parts are sold, and most include instructions and drawings to permit the home hobbyist to complete the parts.  Then buy the attendant action parts, barrels, stocks, etc., thereby coming up with a completely functioning and completely UNTRACEABLE firearm.  There is current activity to make the manufacture and sale of incomplete receivers illegal.  I haven't followed closely enough to know how close that is to fruition.

 

You have nothing to fear in using your R&D type conversion cylinders.  NOTHING.

[Fort Reno Kid]

Howdy Lady Pard

 

I’m impressed with the good guidance you’ve received and surely have no arguments with their research and nothing of substance to add.

 

Do have some nagging doubts about how the liberals in Sacramento might view it. Seems they never met a firearm to which they didn’t take an instant dislike. My son lives in California. For reasons that boggle my simple mind, he seems to take offense when I refer to his state as “The People’s Demokratik Republik of Kalifornia “. Wonder why?

 

Mostly tongue-in-cheek but with a wee bit of seriousness you might consider relocating to a Free State. Texas is an example and there are lots of others.

 

I have Howell conversion cylinders for an 1860 Army and a Ruger Old Army and just enjoy the “H” out of them. Really adds a new dimension to  those already great shootin’ irons.

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

[Slapshot]

Thats taking it to the extreme. If its for personal use and later you decide to sell it  , it should not be a problem. If it is there will be allot of guys that made 80% AR's going to jail. 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

Your best bet is to call the CADOJ.  They probably won't be able to answer you either since they are not well enough versed in their own rules.

 

You may be able to apply for the "Manufactured" gun to be a legal FA for your possession through current provisions available for true ghost guns. 

 

Ultimately, the communist legislature here will continue to try to label parts as firearms which will force the issue to a degree since the cylinder is a major part.

 

Personally, I would use the cylinder at SASS matches and private property at will.  After the match, slip the C&B cylinder back in and you're golden.  Transport and store it in this manner and life is good.

 

Most LEOs do not know C&B handguns are not considered firearms per BATF rules so I would transport them as if they were true FAs sans the cylinders. 

 

If you were to sell your C&B, you MAY NOT ship the conversion cylinder with it as a case could be made that it is a true firearm if it can be used with modern cartridges.  The conversion cylinder is to be sold as a separate part.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

14 minutes ago, Slapshot said:

Thats taking it to the extreme. If its for personal use and later you decide to sell it  , it should not be a problem. If it is there will be allot of guys that made 80% AR's going to jail. 

Homemade or 80% guns may not be sold in any fashion unless you have a manufacturing license through BATF and have an approved serial number permanently stamped on the frame.  You build it, you own it. 

 

Now the PRK folks who must apply for a serial number prior to building a 80% firearm may be able to transfer it later through a FFL since it is now in the states firearm data banks.

[PowderPuff gal]

10 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

PowderPuff

 

I can't speak for current California Law.  You also getting a lot of hemming and hawing here from people who don't really know anything.  Like asking a knitter how to do a heart transplant.  Under the BATFE rules/regulations/law, a Conversion Cylinder for a BP Revolver is considered a PART.  It is not of itself a "firearm" of any sort.  There are no restrictions on When, Where nor How" you may use the part.  So long as you have not "altered" the original revolver receiver, you have not "manufactured" anything.

 

A sometimes "grey" area is when a BP Colt pattern revolver has the Recoil Shield specifically channeled to load cartridges thru a gated conversion ring.  Channeling the recoil shield, constitutes, under the BATFE, as written, as having "manufactured" a firearm.  It is completely legal for you to do so.  You may make a firearm for YOUR OWN use.  You may NOT sell or Transfer (give away) a firearm you have manufactured for your personal use, without a license to manufacture, and all the attendant rules and forms.  A firearm you have manufactured for your personal use may (maybe - grey area) be sold or transferred through a licensed FFL holding dealer.  Lots of Paperwork there.  Best bottom line, is once you have altered the recoil shield and manufactured a firearm, you get to keep it forever.  DO NOT poke the Beast.  BATFE do NOT have a sense of humor.  Manufacturing and selling firearms without a license WILL result a new residence.

 

Ghost Guns by definition are those guns, built from incomplete parts.  Incompletely machined parts are sold, and most include instructions and drawings to permit the home hobbyist to complete the parts.  Then buy the attendant action parts, barrels, stocks, etc., thereby coming up with a completely functioning and completely UNTRACEABLE firearm.  There is current activity to make the manufacture and sale of incomplete receivers illegal.  I haven't followed closely enough to know how close that is to fruition.

 

You have nothing to fear in using your R&D type conversion cylinders.  NOTHING.

Hi thank much for passing on this information.....It is true, that it surprised me that my just slipping in the conversion cylinder made for this BP Revolver to be able to shoot cowboy loads was actually considered manufacturing a gun. CA....Allowed by the shipping of my Uberti Remy 1855 Revolver straight to my door as well as later on, the conversion cylinder. Indeed, CA allows the shipping of powder and balls in the same manner. No problem....No regular ammo, no way...Have to go to the Gun shops or if online, ammo has to be sent to a licensed dealer etc. CA is quite restrictive...But, does allow us some things. .....Thank you for the clear definition of what a Ghost Gun is......That helps...As that is something I am not at all interested in and would know how to anyway lol...........So, that at least I know and understand.........I think the original guy that told me never to use my 1858 Uberti Remy for self defense with conversion (Using Cowboy loads) probably had heard that during the first year or so of the Pandemic...Some people were buying BP guns for self defense.......Not why I got the conversion, which I got long before Covid came along, may have assumed I might do that....I have no idea why you couldn't do that. We do have Castle Doctrine in CA.......But, it's just not what I got the Cylinder for. But, at least I know I am not actually manufacturing a Ghost Gun.....And my 1858 does have two sets of numbers on the outer frame....Thanks for the note!   Karen

[Hendo]

Stockholm syndrome. 

 

Just sayin....

[PowderPuff gal]

25 minutes ago, Fort Reno Kid said:

Howdy Lady Pard

 

I’m impressed with the good guidance you’ve received and surely have no arguments with their research and nothing of substance to add.

 

Do have some nagging doubts about how the liberals in Sacramento might view it. Seems they never met a firearm to which they didn’t take an instant dislike. My son lives in California. For reasons that boggle my simple mind, he seems to take offense when I refer to his state as “The People’s Demokratik Republik of Kalifornia “. Wonder why?

 

Mostly tongue-in-cheek but with a wee bit of seriousness you might consider relocating to a Free State. Texas is an example and there are lots of others.

 

I have Howell conversion cylinders for an 1860 Army and a Ruger Old Army and just enjoy the “H” out of them. Really adds a new dimension to  those already great shootin’ irons.

 

Adios

 

Fort Reno Kid 

Hi Kid! Thank you for the note...It made me laugh!....I think it's because I'm one of those Californian's who loves the state and beauty....But, hate it's politics....I know what you mean...Consideration to moving to another less restrictive state. But, it won't be in the cards so to speak, at least for awhile. But, Texas was on my short list.....Funny thing though...When the gun (and ammo) rush began....It was amazing to see how fast shops here were very quickly out of inventory..... But yes, BP is lots of fun......Well, anyway, I found out that I am pretty fast right handed cross draw.....I don't know what I can do with that, other than I learned that about myself lol.....Not that I am going to enter any contests.....But you're right...It's fun.  PPG!

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

 

Slapshot.  You'd best be looking that up in the BATFE books.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

OP, if you have a local FFL you know,

please contact them for details. 

BTW, there are several cities in PRK that do not allow home delivery of BP guns.

LA City is just one.......

OLG 

[Cemetery]

C&B Ghost Gun?

 

As a resident of a State just as bad as California regarding guns, only time we would run afoul of the law regarding C&B and Cartridge Conversions, is altering the frame to facilitate a loading gate, and making it so that you can reload the conversion cylinder without removing it complete from the gun.  At that point it becomes a cartridge gun, and falls under the same rules as any other cartridge single action, and transfer fees and background check come into play, as well as needing a permit and registration if your locality requires it.

[PowderPuff gal]

3 minutes ago, Cemetery said:

C&B Ghost Gun?

 

As a resident of a State just as bad as California regarding guns, only time we would run afoul of the law regarding C&B and Cartridge Conversions, is altering the frame to facilitate a loading gate, and making it so that you can reload the conversion cylinder without removing it complete from the gun.  At that point it becomes a cartridge gun, and falls under the same rules as any other cartridge single action, and transfer fees and background check come into play, as well as needing a permit and registration if your locality requires it.

 

[PowderPuff gal]

That's what I thought as I think someone else mentioned up there somewhere.....But nope nothing on my Uberti 1858 has been modified and it hasn't been machined or have a loading gate....So using my 1858 with the Howell conversion cylinder, and cowboy loads, each cartridge has to be dropped into each cylinder chamber, one at a time and still can only be fired as a Single Action. Needing to pull the hammer back for each shot. So nopies, no machining or anything like that...Just sliding out the C&B cylinder and then sliding in the conversion cylinder.... Thank you for the note!!   PPG!

 

[Johnny Knight]

So, without going into the specifics of California state law, or your local jurisdiction, I would offer a suggestion.  Anytime someone tells you that 'such and such' is 'against the law', ask them to cite the specific law they are suggesting that controls or limits your choices.  Based on over 30 years of legal practice, the batting average is 95% plus that they won't be able to point to any specific law or regulation that applies.  There is a ton of opinion out there about 'how something works', but unless, or until, someone cites a specific rule/law/policy, then you aren't in a position to determine your potential liability.  You are always best going straight to any sources, print out copies of any laws or regulations that apply to your situation, then keep that documentation handy in case you need to educate any law enforcement officer that you are acting within your rights.   I'm a fan of supporting our law enforcement community, but I've known a few officers who go off of department policies, rather than the state law.  Having grown up and started law school in California, before moving to the much freer state of Texas, it was especially important to know the laws that you are operating under.  Regards, and enjoy your Uberti's.

Johnny

[Sue]

A good source for firearms related information is the California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA). You can call or email them with your question and they can provide a non-legal summary. They can also provide information about attorneys in your area that specialize in firearms law that you can consult with who can explain the current laws and how they are being applied. They also publish an annual guide called "California Gun Laws" by Chuck Michel if you want to dig into it deeply on your own. My current copy is 530 pages.

 

Some FFLs know and understand the laws, some don't; some folks at the CA DOJ know and understand the laws, some don't; and some attorneys know and understand the laws and some don't. For your particular question I'd most trust an answer from someone who has a JD and actively practices CA firearms law.

 

IANAL! Please take this with a big helping of salt and seek a better answer from someone more qualified than I: many folks are thinking of the "antique firearm" definition in the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 when talking about the cap 'n ball BP exceptions they are most familiar with. CA defines "antique firearm" differently in different contexts throughout CA law so it is important to know in what section of law and in what context you are most concerned. For the DOJ "ghost gun" regulations issued in 2020 the "antique firearm" term means the same as the GCA. To paraphrase and summarize (with some latitude) from 18 US Code Chapter 44 § 921 Definitions (a) (16) (B) (i), it's made before 1899 or is a replica of such, and is not designed or redesigned for using convential centerfire fixed ammunition. Whether the use of a conversion cylinder is considered to affect the design or redesign of the firearm is a key consideration for Californians in evaluating the "ghost gun" regulations. There are additional CA laws related to the original question that are also in play and should be considered. Unfortunately here in CA it's not a one to one relationship of laws to questions to get the answer, and for this topic I wouldn't be surprised if it required evaluating a couple dozen laws to get something close to the "correct" answer for this one question. And it still might not be definitive though because the "precursor parts" piece of AB 879 that goes into effect in July 2024 hasn't had the mandated DOJ guidance issued yet - so is a conversion cylinder a precursor part or not, and is it grandfathered or not? And how long will the inevitable constitutional court challenge take?

 

Unfortunately we live in a State where getting the answer wrong costs a whole lot more than a legal consult fee. 

 

Have fun makin' smoke!

Sue

[Tully Mars]

Hi PPG,

 

I'm not going to get into the ghost gun/C&B discussion other than to say it's conversion cylinders are commonly uses within SASS and sold as parts. Colorado Coffinmaker's first post is great information.

Here's the reason I'm responding: 

I noticed you're from Carmichael, I'm one of the match directors at Diamond Dick's Cowboy Town at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. If you have an interest in coming out to shoot Cowboy or Wild Bunch, please let me know or check out https://cagunslingers.com/ for more information.

 

Thanks,

Tully

[Slapshot]

14 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Slapshot.  You'd best be looking that up in the BATFE books.

I'm good it seems most everyone misinterprets.

 

Under federal law, you can sell a completed 80% lower. But importantly, you cannot make an 80% lower receiver into a firearm with the intent of selling it. This would make you a firearm manufacturer, which is illegal if you don't possess an FFL.

[PowderPuff gal]

13 hours ago, Johnny Knight said:

So, without going into the specifics of California state law, or your local jurisdiction, I would offer a suggestion.  Anytime someone tells you that 'such and such' is 'against the law', ask them to cite the specific law they are suggesting that controls or limits your choices.  Based on over 30 years of legal practice, the batting average is 95% plus that they won't be able to point to any specific law or regulation that applies.  There is a ton of opinion out there about 'how something works', but unless, or until, someone cites a specific rule/law/policy, then you aren't in a position to determine your potential liability.  You are always best going straight to any sources, print out copies of any laws or regulations that apply to your situation, then keep that documentation handy in case you need to educate any law enforcement officer that you are acting within your rights.   I'm a fan of supporting our law enforcement community, but I've known a few officers who go off of department policies, rather than the state law.  Having grown up and started law school in California, before moving to the much freer state of Texas, it was especially important to know the laws that you are operating under.  Regards, and enjoy your Uberti's.

Johnny

Hi Johnny, thank you for the note.....I have been looking up everything I can concerning BP guns in my area. And so far, for as much as a restrictive state CA is. For the most part that I have found so far, CA for the largest part, seems to view BP guns / muzzle loaders if not as liberally, pretty much as liberally as most Free States. As I mentioned in another reply, it's not why I got one. (I just like BP because it's fun!) But, I haven't found anything yet that says I would be in more trouble defending my life under Castle Doctrine (Which we do have here) with my Uberti with the Conversion cylinder and a cowboy load than if I were in a deadly force situation and used a handgun. Maybe there's something here about that. But, I haven't found it yet. (Also, I am under deadly force coverage and have been trained to know what unpleasant things I might have to experience until I am cleared etc.) But, it's not something I sit around and worry about. I just enjoy target shooting. And I am legal in my ownership etc. Even though it is thought not to be necessary even here, when transporting my my BP guns. I would keep them in a locked case, cylinders out and unloaded as with any handgun. And I understand that LEO's may not be educated as concerns BP Gun laws....Or may not even recognize the gun and BP shooter as not a standard hanggun......I know how much powder I am allowed to be in possession of at any one time and all of that. So, I am always doing the best I can to know  that I am "CA legal" in all of this.  Thank you for you note! It is much appreciated!!   ---  Karen   (PPG)

[PowderPuff gal]

11 hours ago, Sue said:

A good source for firearms related information is the California Rifle & Pistol Association (CRPA). You can call or email them with your question and they can provide a non-legal summary. They can also provide information about attorneys in your area that specialize in firearms law that you can consult with who can explain the current laws and how they are being applied. They also publish an annual guide called "California Gun Laws" by Chuck Michel if you want to dig into it deeply on your own. My current copy is 530 pages.

 

Some FFLs know and understand the laws, some don't; some folks at the CA DOJ know and understand the laws, some don't; and some attorneys know and understand the laws and some don't. For your particular question I'd most trust an answer from someone who has a JD and actively practices CA firearms law.

 

IANAL! Please take this with a big helping of salt and seek a better answer from someone more qualified than I: many folks are thinking of the "antique firearm" definition in the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968 when talking about the cap 'n ball BP exceptions they are most familiar with. CA defines "antique firearm" differently in different contexts throughout CA law so it is important to know in what section of law and in what context you are most concerned. For the DOJ "ghost gun" regulations issued in 2020 the "antique firearm" term means the same as the GCA. To paraphrase and summarize (with some latitude) from 18 US Code Chapter 44 § 921 Definitions (a) (16) (B) (i), it's made before 1899 or is a replica of such, and is not designed or redesigned for using convential centerfire fixed ammunition. Whether the use of a conversion cylinder is considered to affect the design or redesign of the firearm is a key consideration for Californians in evaluating the "ghost gun" regulations. There are additional CA laws related to the original question that are also in play and should be considered. Unfortunately here in CA it's not a one to one relationship of laws to questions to get the answer, and for this topic I wouldn't be surprised if it required evaluating a couple dozen laws to get something close to the "correct" answer for this one question. And it still might not be definitive though because the "precursor parts" piece of AB 879 that goes into effect in July 2024 hasn't had the mandated DOJ guidance issued yet - so is a conversion cylinder a precursor part or not, and is it grandfathered or not? And how long will the inevitable constitutional court challenge take?

 

Unfortunately we live in a State where getting the answer wrong costs a whole lot more than a legal consult fee. 

 

Have fun makin' smoke!

Sue

Hey Sue! Great message....Will check all of that....I have been doing the slogging through all of CA laws regarding BP guns...I am doing well...But, still doing well....Maybe a source where I can find an answer when I can't while slogging through CA law as regards BP guns. In the meantime, I just treat my BP guns as any standard gun. lol, to "praphrase" Texas Jack in Tombstone....."Law and Order every time...That's "me!! " lol......From what I am seeing thus far, "It does not seem" that Conversion Cylinder constitutes manufacturing a Ghost gun. Since the 1858 BP does carry numbers on the outer frame. And also, I am legal for ownership for standard legal handguns or all allowed ammo. But, it is still an interesting question. And as always, I will continue to sure that I am CA legal.    Will do, love making that smoke and lightning! lol      Karen

[PowderPuff gal]

2 hours ago, Tully Mars said:

Hi PPG,

 

I'm not going to get into the ghost gun/C&B discussion other than to say it's conversion cylinders are commonly uses within SASS and sold as parts. Colorado Coffinmaker's first post is great information.

Here's the reason I'm responding: 

I noticed you're from Carmichael, I'm one of the match directors at Diamond Dick's Cowboy Town at the Sacramento Valley Shooting Center. If you have an interest in coming out to shoot Cowboy or Wild Bunch, please let me know or check out https://cagunslingers.com/ for more information.

 

Thanks,

Tully

Hi Tully,  Yeppies...I live just a few blocks past the Sacramento City line....So I always say, Sacramento, figuring most won't have heard of Carmichael. Thank you for the information! It sounds like something that could be fun!!!!  -  Karen

[PowderPuff gal]

Hey all!  I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who contributed to my original post You guys and gals  here in the Sass forums are always so willing to try and jump in and help. I just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate it!!! Even when there are differing opinions or thoughts, it's always helpful and helps me to keep on my toes!!!  But aren't you happy that I had no questions about my Diablo Hand Cannon! !!!    lol.....Seriously though....Y'all are really great!!!   Sincerely as always!   Karen   (PPG)

[High Spade Mikey Wilson]

18 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

PowderPuff

 

I can't speak for current California Law.  You also getting a lot of hemming and hawing here from people who don't really know anything.  Like asking a knitter how to do a heart transplant.  Under the BATFE rules/regulations/law, a Conversion Cylinder for a BP Revolver is considered a PART.  It is not of itself a "firearm" of any sort.  There are no restrictions on When, Where nor How" you may use the part.  So long as you have not "altered" the original revolver receiver, you have not "manufactured" anything.

 

A sometimes "grey" area is when a BP Colt pattern revolver has the Recoil Shield specifically channeled to load cartridges thru a gated conversion ring.  Channeling the recoil shield, constitutes, under the BATFE, as written, as having "manufactured" a firearm.  It is completely legal for you to do so.  You may make a firearm for YOUR OWN use.  You may NOT sell or Transfer (give away) a firearm you have manufactured for your personal use, without a license to manufacture, and all the attendant rules and forms.  A firearm you have manufactured for your personal use may (maybe - grey area) be sold or transferred through a licensed FFL holding dealer.  Lots of Paperwork there.  Best bottom line, is once you have altered the recoil shield and manufactured a firearm, you get to keep it forever.  DO NOT poke the Beast.  BATFE do NOT have a sense of humor.  Manufacturing and selling firearms without a license WILL result a new residence.

 

Ghost Guns by definition are those guns, built from incomplete parts.  Incompletely machined parts are sold, and most include instructions and drawings to permit the home hobbyist to complete the parts.  Then buy the attendant action parts, barrels, stocks, etc., thereby coming up with a completely functioning and completely UNTRACEABLE firearm.  There is current activity to make the manufacture and sale of incomplete receivers illegal.  I haven't followed closely enough to know how close that is to fruition.

 

You have nothing to fear in using your R&D type conversion cylinders.  NOTHING.

+1 on CC's post. I started CAS with a pair of 1860 Colt replica's that I bought conversion cylinders for. Perfectly legal for ME to use and shoot. When I eventually decided to  trade them in for a pair of SA Uberti's the LGS would take them in trade as long as the cap & ball cylinders were in the pistols and the conversion cylinders were separate.  He could not "buy" them from me with the conversion cylinders installed. 

[PowderPuff gal]

16 minutes ago, High Spade Mikey Wilson said:

+1 on CC's post. I started CAS with a pair of 1860 Colt replica's that I bought conversion cylinders for. Perfectly legal for ME to use and shoot. When I eventually decided to  trade them in for a pair of SA Uberti's the LGS would take them in trade as long as the cap & ball cylinders were in the pistols and the conversion cylinders were separate.  He could not "buy" them from me with the conversion cylinders installed. 

 

[PowderPuff gal]

Yes, when I got my 1858....It came only with the C&B cyclinder...The conversion cylinder had to be ordered separately at a different time. So, same here. So, sort of the same-same here too.   PPG