H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 I'd like to ask a very simple question. I think I *might* know what the answer is, but I don't want to assume anything. Why is it that .22 WMRF ammo is not allowed in events that use .22s? I can think it is one of three possibilities. 1. There is a safety concern connected to the higher velocity of the Winmag compared to Long Rifles and potential ricocheting. 2. The fact that a lead bullet .22 Magnum does not exist, they are are all jacketed. 3. Just because. I would say that reasons 1 and 2 do make sense to me if either one or both of them are the reason. I'd hate to learn that reason 3 is the reason, but would not be surprised if it is. I am NOT advocating for a rule change. I am just asking out of curiosity and hoping that someone knows the "why" behind this rule.
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 #2, DING, DING, DING. Velocity is a little high too.
Dakota Rambler Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 The use of 22lr ammunition is allowed for buckaroo category to allow children to compete without heavy guns with higher recoil which might discourage them from competing. If they want to use something with more oomph, they can then use any legal main match firearm, and ammunition.
Sedalia Dave Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 Note that the SHB pg 5 states that all .22 ammo be standard velocity and not high velocity. Buckaroo/Buckarette: 13 and under. Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors must use revolvers, rifles, and shotguns meeting the external standards but may be chambered in .22 LR for revolvers and rifles and .410 caliber, 28 ,or 32 gauge shotguns. Standard velocity ammunition for these firearms must be used. Knockdown targets are not required to fall for Buckaroo category shooters. A hit will be scored as long as the target is clearly hit. An alternate target must be provided for all aerial shotgun targets for Buckaroo category competitors. Buckaroo category competitors choosing to use center-fire ammunition in handguns and/or rifles must meet all center-fire power factor and velocity requirements. Caution is urged in allowing competitors under 14. Local laws, regulations, and insurance requirements may prevent matches from offering some age groups.
Dutch Wheeler Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 Not to mention it is overpriced and hard to find!
Griff Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 2 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: I'd like to ask a very simple question. I think I *might* know what the answer is, but I don't want to assume anything. Why is it that .22 WMRF ammo is not allowed in events that use .22s? I can think it is one of three possibilities. 1. There is a safety concern connected to the higher velocity of the Winmag compared to Long Rifles and potential ricocheting. 2. The fact that a lead bullet .22 Magnum does not exist, they are are all jacketed. 3. Just because. I would say that reasons 1 and 2 do make sense to me if either one or both of them are the reason. I'd hate to learn that reason 3 is the reason, but would not be surprised if it is. I am NOT advocating for a rule change. I am just asking out of curiosity and hoping that someone knows the "why" behind this rule. Why, you already knew the answer! Danged but you're smart.
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Posted January 5, 2021 12 minutes ago, Griff said: Why, you already knew the answer! Danged but you're smart. Why thank you, Griff. Thinking about it, I figured that was the likely reasoning. I just figured no harm no foul in asking to be sure.
Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 3 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said: Note that the SHB pg 5 states that all .22 ammo be standard velocity and not high velocity. Buckaroo/Buckarette: 13 and under. Buckaroo/Buckarette competitors must use revolvers, rifles, and shotguns meeting the external standards but may be chambered in .22 LR for revolvers and rifles and .410 caliber, 28 ,or 32 gauge shotguns. Standard velocity ammunition for these firearms must be used. Most of the “bulk pack” .22 long rifle ammo is high velocity. I’ve never seen anyone question the type of ammo used, but that is what the Handbook says.
Chelsea Kid, #47400 Posted January 5, 2021 Posted January 5, 2021 Hello the fire, One of the big problems with 22 magnum is target damage. One of the clubs I used to belong to would not allow it on the indoor targets, 44 mag was fine. It is a matter of physics, the metplat, the front point of the bullet and the velocity contribute to damaging targets. Chelsea
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 2 hours ago, Abe E.S. Corpus SASS #87667 said: Most of the “bulk pack” .22 long rifle ammo is high velocity. I’ve never seen anyone question the type of ammo used, but that is what the Handbook says. I've been wondering about this. Looking at various boxes of .22LR, some say "High Velocity". Okay. Others say 1200fps or 1240fps. Others don't say, just 36gr bullet. What constitutes "high velocity" ?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 24 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said: I've been wondering about this. Looking at various boxes of .22LR, some say "High Velocity". Okay. Others say 1200fps or 1240fps. Others don't say, just 36gr bullet. What constitutes "high velocity" ? Quote What is 22 standard velocity? The velocity of standard-velocity .22 LR rounds varies between manufacturers. Some standard velocity ammo may be slightly supersonic-around 1,125 ft/s (343 m/s), other ammo such as CCI Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition is rated at 1,070 ft/s (330 m/s).
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Posted January 6, 2021 What's the velocity of CB's?
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: What's the velocity of CB's? .22 CB - Wikipedia
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted January 6, 2021 Author Posted January 6, 2021 Thanks, Palewolf. A good read. And it even mentions what I use the CB Longs for, use in older guns.
Kid Rich Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 7 hours ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: I'd like to ask a very simple question. I think I *might* know what the answer is, but I don't want to assume anything. Why is it that .22 WMRF ammo is not allowed in events that use .22s? I can think it is one of three possibilities. 1. There is a safety concern connected to the higher velocity of the Winmag compared to Long Rifles and potential ricocheting. 2. The fact that a lead bullet .22 Magnum does not exist, they are are all jacketed. 3. Just because. I would say that reasons 1 and 2 do make sense to me if either one or both of them are the reason. I'd hate to learn that reason 3 is the reason, but would not be surprised if it is. I am NOT advocating for a rule change. I am just asking out of curiosity and hoping that someone knows the "why" behind this rule. Same reason ya don't run yer Ferrarri flat out in town. kR
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 With SASS velocity limits. CCI mini-mag .22 LR cartridge would be OK. My concern, is that the bullet is a copper 'washed' all lead. PWB, is it SASS legal? OLG
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: With SASS velocity limits. CCI mini-mag .22 LR cartridge would be OK. My concern, is that the bullet is a copper 'washed' all lead. PWB, is it SASS legal? OLG "Copper-washed" was deleted from the ammo regs a few years ago...not the same as "plated". Quote REVOLVER AND RIFLE AMMUNITION - May not be jacketed, semi-jacketed, hollow point, plated, or gas checked. It must be all lead. Moly-Disulfide, polymer coated bullets, or equivalents are acceptable. SHB p.26
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 TNX, PWB for the quick reply. OLG
Rye Miles #13621 Posted January 6, 2021 Posted January 6, 2021 20 hours ago, Dutch Wheeler said: Not to mention it is overpriced and hard to find! +1000 It's as much as .38 special if not more!!
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 Howdy; asked to use 22 WRF in derringer decades back. Got a NO! letter from the wild bunch, ammo to fast, even if it was lead bullet. They also declined my request to use a Tomson Contender break open hand gun in long range side match.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 1 hour ago, VICIOUS, SASS#8014 said: Howdy; asked to use 22 WRF in derringer decades back. Got a NO! letter from the wild bunch, ammo to fast, even if it was lead bullet. They also declined my request to use a Tomson Contender break open hand gun in long range side match. Are you saying this rule: Quote .22 Magnum ammunition is not allowed SHB p.29 - "Pocket Pistols and Derringers" has your name on it?
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 5:49 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: With SASS velocity limits. CCI mini-mag .22 LR cartridge would be OK. My concern, is that the bullet is a copper 'washed' all lead. PWB, is it SASS legal? OLG Are they STANDARD VELOCITY??????? If the answer is no, then they are illegal.
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 5:28 PM, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: CCI Standard Velocity .22 LR ammunition is rated at 1,070 ft/s CCI Mini Mag "Target" velocity is 1235 fps = High Velocity = NOT LEGAL
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 5 hours ago, Ace_of_Hearts said: Are they STANDARD VELOCITY??????? If the answer is no, then they are illegal. The CCI mini-mag 40gn solid .22LR falls within SASS velocity requirements and are under 1400fps for rifle and under 1K fps in my revolver. Why are they 'illegal'? OLG
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 5 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said: CCI Mini Mag "Target" velocity is 1235 fps = High Velocity = NOT LEGAL Isn't rifle max FPS 1400? Is there different velocity requirements for .22 that I missed? OLG
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 The "standard velocity" restriction applies to the "Buckaroo/Buckarette" categories. Standard velocity ammunition for these firearms must be used. SHB p.5 – “Buckaroo/Buckarette” category regs Standard velocity .22 caliber, rim-fire ammunition is allowed within the Buckaroo Category only. SHB p.37 – “Revolver Calibers” Buckaroo/Buckarette Category competitors choosing to utilize .22 caliber firearms must use standard velocity .22 caliber rim-fire ammunition only. SHB p.39 – Rifle Calibers” The minimum velocity regs apply to "Centerfire" ammunition. The max/min velocity rules do not apply to long range rifle side match ammo: Quote Pocket pistols, derringers, and long-range rifles are exempt from the power factor and velocity requirements. SHB p.25 - "Ammunition Covenants"
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 Thank you PWB for the clarification. OLG
Noz Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 The CB works well tucked behind a gray squirrel's ear when infestations occur inside the city limits.
VICIOUS, SASS#8014 Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 Howdy; back then then (DECADES) rules were not as written down as now. This is why the book is growing. Also many did not know the difference from 22 MAG from the original 22 Winchester rim fire (22 WRF)
Three Foot Johnson Posted January 7, 2021 Posted January 7, 2021 8 minutes ago, VICIOUS, SASS#8014 said: Howdy; back then then (DECADES) rules were not as written down as now. This is why the book is growing. Also many did not know the difference from 22 MAG from the original 22 Winchester rim fire (22 WRF) Not exactly collector quality, but I've got a box of those.
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